Coollant general guidelines

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Petersubaru
Originally Posted By: Petersubaru
...perhaps confusing, but when looking at the Glysantin web site, I get the impression that there is only 2 coolant formulas to consider for over 90% of most car and truck applications ...G48(combination of silicate,sebacic,& 2-ethyl)..and..G30(G12+ no silicates or phos) as shown under the title of "brochures" for truck and car...the 3rd is more specialized.. G40(G12++ silicated new technology and gentler corrosion inhibitors??) ... more designed for high performance motors..supposed to have greater ability in extracting and removing heat to the radiator?? http://www.performancechemicals.basf.com...santin/products
..I just wanted to include in my own post above what I had earlier forgotten...somewhere on one of the German auto parts suppliers web page, makes mention that the G40(G12++) does Not contain any silicates as some people may think, but rather the term "silicon additive technology" has more to do with coolant/sealant compatibility in cars that this coolant is specified for..obviously more confusion here..and that for some cars the OAT coolants are eating the silicon based gaskets..no mention of sludging or plastic related problems


Yes it's very confusing. Mercedes and whoever else uses a silicate pack in the reservoir, so maybe some makes or models don't need the silicant "precharged" in the anti-freeze. I'm not surprised that an OAT would eat away at silicone as most of them do. I'm also not surprised that the OAT isn't sludging because it takes certain conditions and certain OATs for air to be able to get into the system and sludge. I thought the Glysatin sight said G40 was silicated. I thought G48 was the one that wasn't silicated, but I'm not very knowledge about European coolants.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: qship1996



what are your qualifications to make the above statements? are you a degreed chemical engineer? Batchelors or masters degree in chemistry? Or simple layman with an opinion?


The not-so-subtle implication being that "laymen" are capable of nothing more than opinion? Last time I checked, any intelligent "layman" can read, study, and educate himself over time through any number of methods, to the point of becoming an expert on many different subjects not necessarily at the core of one's education. And I say this as a person with 2 higher education degrees behind my name. I find it very insulting when "degreed" people offhandedly dismiss what others say just because they are "laymen."

PS- its "Bachelor's" degree, not "Batchelors".

 

[Trav]

Mechanicx seems to have a pretty darn good grip on this.I find it a little narrow minded that some people think a degree of some sort is necessity to be knowledgeable in a subject.

IMHO that sort of thinking just reduces ones avenues of information.I am a mechanic,i cant call myself a technician even though many mechanics with a lot less education and experience take pride in the term i do not.

I know little about oils,fluids and chemicals.I was never taught about these things so any information i can get my hands on the more knowledgeable i become regardless of where i got the information.Over the years BITOG has become a valuable source for me.

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: qship1996



what are your qualifications to make the above statements? are you a degreed chemical engineer? Batchelors or masters degree in chemistry? Or simple layman with an opinion?


The not-so-subtle implication being that "laymen" are capable of nothing more than opinion? Last time I checked, any intelligent "layman" can read, study, and educate himself over time through any number of methods, to the point of becoming an expert on many different subjects not necessarily at the core of one's education. And I say this as a person with 2 higher education degrees behind my name. I find it very insulting when "degreed" people offhandedly dismiss what others say just because they are "laymen."

PS- its "Bachelor's" degree, not "Batchelors".




+1 and very well said. Not surprised qship1996 has no response.

 

[mike630]

I have a 2007 Nissan Altima (4) cyl. The manual says to change @
30,000 miles.
I have been told by a radiator specialists that if I put in the long life
antifreeze, it won't do any good.
He said the long life antifreeze is only good if installed when it was new!
Is this correct?
Thanks,
Mike

 

[mechanicx]

No I don't think that is true. As long as you get 90+% of the old coolant out, you would get extended life protection with the extended life fill.

 

[Petersubaru]

Originally Posted By: mike630
I have a 2007 Nissan Altima (4) cyl. The manual says to change @
30,000 miles.
I have been told by a radiator specialists that if I put in the long life
antifreeze, it won't do any good.
He said the long life antifreeze is only good if installed when it was new!
Is this correct?
Thanks,
Mike



..your rad specialist may be correct..it really depends on the car and customer expectations..without going into a lot of details as to why...for example on my daughters lincoln, the 1st coolant change is expected by the ford maintanence plan to have 1/2 the life as compared to the factory fill..same goes for my newer subaru..another families car(2005 toyota)orginally could go 100,000mi between changes, but has been revised by Toyota to 60,000mi for the factory fill(more toyota problems) and again far less once the 1st coolant change has been done..my older '01 subaru orginally spec'd for 30,000mi exchanges has been changed to 12-15,000mi or yearly exchanges on the advice of my subi mechanic and information he received concerning head gasket failures..the goal for me was to maintain the full strength of original additive package

 

[Dan55]

I was told years ago by a tech at Prestone, that the factory fill of Dexcool was good for 5/150. If you installed Dex in a vehicle that originally had green you would never get that same level of protection. The reason being, the add pack works best on new metal laying down a highly effective barrier.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Dan55
I was told years ago by a tech at Prestone, that the factory fill of Dexcool was good for 5/150. If you installed Dex in a vehicle that originally had green you would never get that same level of protection. The reason being, the add pack works best on new metal laying down a highly effective barrier.


I've heard that before, but if that was the case then that would mean the OAT inhibitors would not be working. Either they are eventually laying down a protective coating or they're not. And the old coolant protective layer is not permanent and "blocking" the new OAT protective layer.

Those techs give such bad info. I talked to a Felpro tech and about everything he told me was wrong.

It's not idea to switch to extended life aftter being filled with IAT coolant, but if you get most all of the old out and a full charge of extended life in, it will basically provide the longer service life.

Ford says G-05 replacing Green can result in the longer service life. G-05 is a HOAT but it still be true for an OAT. The OAT carboxylate acid is part of the reason G-05 has a longer service life then IAT coolants.

Ford coolant chart
Quote:
GY = Factory-filled with green-colored engine coolant. Service as normal with green-colored engine coolant, or service with yellow-colored engine coolant with
the following important conditions:
I. If the green-colored engine coolant is thoroughly flushed out of the cooling system and then the system is filled with yellow-colored engine coolant, the
service maintenance (change-out) intervals of the yellow-colored engine coolant can be followed.
II. If the green-colored engine coolant is not completely flushed out of the cooling system (e.g., yellow-colored engine coolant is used to top off the system),
then the service maintenance (change-out) intervals of the green-colored engine coolant must be followed.

 

[KoolBreeze]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

First I don't believe in lifetime fills and don't even know of any for light-duty vehicles.


Dex-Cool is a lifetime fill when it's installed in a Saab. Or so Saab says.


or say who says you? I own a couple and haven't heard nor read any such claim, (surely not in the manuals I have)

not to say your claim has never been made, but also do remember Saab was GM for a hopefully short period in their history.

regardless a lifetime fill seems crazy by any standard in current and pending tech.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

First I don't believe in lifetime fills and don't even know of any for light-duty vehicles.


Dex-Cool is a lifetime fill when it's installed in a Saab. Or so Saab says.


I didn't know Saab was cliaming lifetime for the anti-freeze. I guess the expected lifetime of a Saab is less than 150K miles

.


lol

million mile 1989 Saab 900SPG

curious what coolant he used.

 

[Dan55]

The tech never said that it would not be extended life, just that it not be a full 5/150. He also told me that european auto manufacturers do not like phosphates because of hard water concerns. That was over 10 years ago and still remains true today. Finding the truth lately is a different story the manufacturers are very tight lipped. If you go to the BASF website they state "Corrosive molecules result from the degradation of the ethylene glycol contained in the coolant and the gradual degradation of the additives and inhibitors. This degradation is caused by the high temperatures occurring in the engine cooling system. That is why the coolant in a vehicle has to be changed regularly after 3-4 years" How much effect does that have on the life of the coolant. Or are the just tring to sell product ?

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx


Ford says G-05 replacing Green can result in the longer service life. G-05 is a HOAT but it still be true for an OAT. The OAT carboxylate acid is part of the reason G-05 has a longer service life then IAT coolants.

Ford coolant chart
Quote:
GY = Factory-filled with green-colored engine coolant. Service as normal with green-colored engine coolant, or service with yellow-colored engine coolant with
the following important conditions:
I. If the green-colored engine coolant is thoroughly flushed out of the cooling system and then the system is filled with yellow-colored engine coolant, the
service maintenance (change-out) intervals of the yellow-colored engine coolant can be followed.
II. If the green-colored engine coolant is not completely flushed out of the cooling system (e.g., yellow-colored engine coolant is used to top off the system),
then the service maintenance (change-out) intervals of the green-colored engine coolant must be followed.



I looked at this chart and wonder why Ford doesn't state you can use G-05 in older models. For example I have a 95 Ford with a 4.0 V6. I'm replacing the water pump (over 200K miles on the original) and I'd prefer to use the same coolant as my 2004 Grand Marquis uses which is of course G-05.
I'm not so interested in long change intervals as I am in having one less type of anti-freeze sitting on my shelf!

 

[mechanicx]

I think Ford only back speced so far because that's all they wanted to spend on validating older models. I think they are being cautious and aren't really saying that pre-99 models have any obvious reason they can't use G-05.

I think if you just want to switch for the purposes of using one coolant, G-05 would be OK in older models. I think it would be best to get all of the old coolant out and full fill of G-05 when switching.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I think Ford only back speced so far because that's all they wanted to spend on validating older models. I think they are being cautious and aren't really saying that pre-99 models have any obvious reason they can't use G-05.

I think if you just want to switch for the purposes of using one coolant, G-05 would be OK in older models. I think it would be best to get all of the old coolant out and full fill of G-05 when switching.


Okay, thanks. I think that's what I'll do.
Life was so much easier many years (or even decades) ago when all we had was basically one TYPE of anti-freeze and our only choice was which BRAND to use!

 

[mechanicx]

That sure is the truth. And you didn't have to worry about green gumming up or degrading gaskets.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Peal Global- OAT. Benzoate and some other unkiwn inhibitor, maybe sebacate or neodeconoate. non OE. Probably as agressive with plastics as Dexcool.


First time i've seen this posted. Either you have a remarkable insight or are mistaken. I respect mechanics knowledge gained thru countless hours, but having just spent a lot of time searching for Peak Global Lifetime here and finally buying two bottles to replace Prestone all makes, i'm not too happy about this conclusion

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: [RT
ProjUltraZ]
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Peal Global- OAT. Benzoate and some other unkiwn inhibitor, maybe sebacate or neodeconoate. non OE. Probably as agressive with plastics as Dexcool.


First time i've seen this posted. Either you have a remarkable insight or are mistaken. I respect mechanics knowledge gained thru countless hours, but having just spent a lot of time searching for Peak Global Lifetime here and finally buying two bottles to replace Prestone all makes, i'm not too happy about this conclusion


Well I was hyped about Peak Global at first. But then I did a lot of reading and researching. I'm not sure what statement I made of above could be incorrect. Peak Global is an OAT coolant and Peak told me it was not OEM fill on anything. It does contain Benzoate, a type of carboxylate acid, and has an unkown inhibitor. I don't know what it is for sure, but I'd assume it is one of the OATs I mentioned. Maybe Peak Global isn't prone to sludge in air. And keep in mind Dexcool and 2-EHA isn't really necessary that bad of a gasket deteriorater as much as certain types of gaskets just don't fair well with coolants. I'm just saying there's not much evidence out there that Dexcool is really more aggressive with plastic gaskets then other OAT coolants. PGL I think is a decent coolaant.

 

[[RT] ProjUltraZ]

thanks mechanicx, i flushed several times with RO water and added the Peak Global today. it's yellow. we'll see what happens