Convertible Top

[Chester32141]

My wife just bought a 2007 Z4 (21,000 mi) from Tom Bush of Orange Park ... supposed to have been a Certified used car, but she bought it in the dark and when she saw it in the sunlight she'd been burned ... The worst of the problems is that the black convertible top is stained on one side by either grease or wax ... my guess is wax ... dealer just keeps saying that it's from putting the top down but it's not ... I would appreciate any suggestions for cleaning it ... thanks !

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/bettiemc/?action=view&current=MVC-029F.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/bettiemc/?action=view&current=MVC-030F.jpg

http://s894.photobucket.com/albums/ac149/bettiemc/?action=view&current=MVC-035F.jpg

 

[JHZR2]

They aren't making it right? It is certified, right? Warranty it? Complain to bmwna?

Sometimes there is a 3-day cooling off period... I'd threaten to invoke it (if applicable) if they don't make it right...

 

[XS650]

Raggtopp is a good cleaner for fabric convertible tops. I had very good results from it but never delt with wax.

Check the various detailing forums on the net.

You also need to find out where the wax or whatever is coming from and clean those parts off.

 

[Chester32141]

Thanks for the tips .... 'Wax' was there when she bought the car ... dealer has proven themselves to real scumbags and when we contacted BMWNA they were just as bad ... As she said, She'd seen so many perfect Certified Used cars that when they told her this one was perfect she trusted them and didn't ask to see it in the daylight ... she's had it back to the dealer 8 times now and all they want to do is stonewall her ...

Any idea if sunshine would make the 'wax' fade ?

 

[tomcat27]

"Certified" means nothing. Unfortunately it's a great marketing gimmick and sells alot of cars. I have a friend who bought a "certified" used car that was three years old, 42k miles, with the original oil and filter (rusted) on the car. needless to say that the engine was toast and it took some careful negotiation to get the engine replaced.

Regardless, focus on what you can do. Certainly that top is in less than pristine shape... since ragtops are so popular in FL, you must have a local detailer that can assist? even up here we have numerous detailing shops that specialize in higher end cars. Perhaps even the dealer would offer up their detailer? just stay even tempered and firmly ask for some resolution here.

 

[tomcat27]

If its truly wax then it will eventually wear off. Theoretically a mild soap with a soft brush will help that along. It's hard to tell from the pix - but perhaps even some dye will blend it in. also, with the top down you dont notice any problems, right?

 

[moklock]

When I was working in Saturn parts they were reccomending the Armor All upholstery cleaner with somthing similar sounding to Oxi Clean (Oxi Magic, I think?)in it for cloth top stains on the SKY. A very soft brush and car wash soap was all that was used for regular cleaning.

 

[tomcat27]

I inspect tons of cars and I normally find a problem with every car I inspect. ebay is a haven for suckers. (car and truck sales) and despite their promises of buyer protection, ebay barely stands behind any car that is sold there. if the engine or tranny is totally toast, they may cover it, but you still have to jump through hoops. any other defect is "buyer beware".

I'm sure we all know by now to:
- never buy a car sight unseen. yet it happens by the thousands every day on ebay
- never buy any car in the dark! at worst you can have the car pulled into a well-lit service area, but there is no substitute for bright daylight. there are also some paint defects that will not be evident under artificial light. likewise, I had a red hood resprayed that was a perfect match in daylight, but get it under a sodium vapor lamp and it was orange.
- never take anyone's word for anything. get everything in writing. "he said, she said" will never hold up.
- dont assume that anyone in sales will be reasonable or accommodating after the sale

when something does go wrong, dont loose your temper. dealers could care less about threats of lawsuits. actually, they prefer that route because it gets you out of their face.
document a few possible solutions to discuss with the dealer.

 

[bretfraz]

Hard to tell from those pics, but it looks like wax residue or buffer dust from when the car was detailed.

If you want to tackle this yourself, have a look at the products here: http://www.properautocare.com/besprodforfa.html

I've used the RaggTopp and 303 products, and have tried the Porsche products, and all work well. You will need a small, stiff bristled brush or a firm cellulose sponge. Do not use wash mitts, rags, shammies or anything else on the top. They will make more of a mess than you have now.

If you want a detailer to take care of this, PM me and I'll see if I have a local guy that can do the job.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: tomcat27
Perhaps even the dealer would offer up their detailer? just stay even tempered and firmly ask for some resolution here.


Seeing a detailer is a good suggestion

, seeing the dealers detailer isn't

.

 

[JHZR2]

I'd go to another dealer for certified warranty service. Explain what happened and see what they can do for you. They may well want to form a relationship with you, knowing that the other dealer will not get your business again.

BMWNA also monitors enthusiast forums, for example when people gripe over on 1addicts, they will weigh in sometimes.

I'd go to zpost and gripe. See what they can do.

 

[ionbeam22]

If it's within the cooling off period send it back to the dealer. Tell them its the wrong color.

Since it's certified used, you can file a warrantee claim, which BMWNA will get quite annoyed about.

 

[Chester32141]

My wife to sent this to BMWNA in response to their question below .... it may not get us anywhere but at least they'll know they screwed over the wrong woman ...

1) What are the outstanding issues and concerns that Tom Bush BMW Orange Park has not addressed to your satisfaction.

As you can see below Tom Bush / BMWNA feels that the material that the convertible top is made from will "self destruct" and look damaged after being lowered.

My position is:
I have owned 2 previous "Z"s and the tops never looked like this no matter how many times they were lowered. Most quality convertibles on the road do not have this problem nor coincidentally, does the top on the passenger side of my car which I have to assume spent as much time in the lowered position as the driver's side.

If a painted surface on my car was damaged I would hope that BMW would have fixed it prior to putting the label of Certified Pre-owned on the car. Why does this not hold true with the top? When I had paint peeling from one of my previous cars I was told it would be fixed prior to being resold. Is an area of peeling paint and a top that has been damaged by a previous owners mishandling that much different? I have taken the vehicle to several detailers and another BMW dealer and they all assured me that either the dealer or previous owner put something on the top, be it wax, grease, or make-up which would destroy the waterproofing of the top to remove.

The fact that the top is damaged beyond repair is evidenced by the fact that General Manager Ihab Samrout agreed that it is not right and not repairable and then offered to replace the top until BMW cooked up the story about this damage being a characteristic of BMW convertible tops.

Prior to this vehicle I owned 3 BMWs for a total of nine years. Apparently BMW has more customers than it needs because not only are they willing to lose me as a future customer but they are willing to lose the business of everyone I have the opportunity to discuss this with and they will as I am quite persuasive and talk to a lot of people. To multiply my contacts I have asked a subordinate to assist me in posting the photos of the top along with the email referenced below on as many internet car forums as we can. Not surprisingly the sentiment so far does not favor BMW's service or opinion about this being a characteristic of all convertible tops. I'm also printing the email referenced below along with the photos included and leaving multiples of these where the type of people that would buy a BMW would gather. With a little luck you'll soon be seeing copies of these in corporate.

Rest assured, as long as I own this vehicle with the top in the condition it is in I will make it my business to let the world know that BMW considers their tops to be of such inferior quality that the simple lowering and raising of these tops will cause them to be unsightly and stained.



Email from Tom Bush Service manager ...

Thank you for the many positive marks when completing the BMW survey. I understand your unhappiness with the outcome of the convertible top but as I mentioned, nothing that could be done would make any improvement as the marks created are characteristic.
I apologize for the delay in reaching the resolution and also for Matt in corporate.
Thank you
BJ Scott
Service Manager
Tom Bush BMW Orange Park
6914 Blanding Blvd
Jacksonville FL 32244-4421
904-777-2500

 

[Samuraidog]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with them. Dealers are an untrustworthy bunch. Don't give up. Your persistence may pay off. Good luck.