Considering Synthetic...question?
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
I provided references for my position. I think my position is the correct,and majority position:To wit,that synthetic oil flows more quickly than conventional oil.
Your position is incorrect. It is most certainly possible for a conventional oil to have a slightly lower viscosity than a synthetic of the same grade, in which case, the DINO would offer less resistance to FLOW.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
So again,where are the articles,etc. that support your position?
Just picking through my oil specs, lets look at MAG1 oil from WPP (aka Supertech). The viscosity of their conventional at 100*C (typical operating temp) is 9.8 cSt. At the same temp, their synthetic is 10.3 cSt. It has MORE resistance to flow.
I provided references for my position. I think my position is the correct,and majority position:To wit,that synthetic oil flows more quickly than conventional oil.
Your position is incorrect. It is most certainly possible for a conventional oil to have a slightly lower viscosity than a synthetic of the same grade, in which case, the DINO would offer less resistance to FLOW.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
So again,where are the articles,etc. that support your position?
Just picking through my oil specs, lets look at MAG1 oil from WPP (aka Supertech). The viscosity of their conventional at 100*C (typical operating temp) is 9.8 cSt. At the same temp, their synthetic is 10.3 cSt. It has MORE resistance to flow.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Its human nature that if we spend a little more for one product over another that does the same thing, to feel the need to justify spending that extra on some basis. I have been guilty of doing this, when really it just comes down to me liking the syn I use and being willing to part with the extra few bucks to buy it up while its on sale. There are some real reasons too, but when you get right down to it, that's basically what it boils down to.
-Spyder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization
Post-purchase rationalization is a common phenomenon after people have invested significant time, money, or effort in something to convince themselves that it must have been worth it. Many decisions are made emotionally, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.[1]
This rationalization is based on the principle of commitment and the psychological desire to stay consistent to that commitment. Some authorities would also consider this rationalization a manifestation of cognitive dissonance.
[edit] See also
* Buyer's remorse
* Sunk cost
* Choice-supportive bias
* Escalation of commitment
* List of cognitive biases
Its human nature that if we spend a little more for one product over another that does the same thing, to feel the need to justify spending that extra on some basis. I have been guilty of doing this, when really it just comes down to me liking the syn I use and being willing to part with the extra few bucks to buy it up while its on sale. There are some real reasons too, but when you get right down to it, that's basically what it boils down to.
-Spyder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization
Post-purchase rationalization is a common phenomenon after people have invested significant time, money, or effort in something to convince themselves that it must have been worth it. Many decisions are made emotionally, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.[1]
This rationalization is based on the principle of commitment and the psychological desire to stay consistent to that commitment. Some authorities would also consider this rationalization a manifestation of cognitive dissonance.
[edit] See also
* Buyer's remorse
* Sunk cost
* Choice-supportive bias
* Escalation of commitment
* List of cognitive biases
I can't state as a fact what occurs exactly in terms of flow in an engine at normal temps synthetic vs dino. But here is what I observed after 22 years of using a Pre-luber in my E-150 van.
First off the pre-luber is an electric oil pump, which pumps oil from the sump and feeds it into where the oil sending unit screws into the block via a Tee fitting, I flip a switch oil pumps. At about 35*F I can notice a difference between 5w30 conventional and 5W30 synthetic oil in how fast the little pump builds pressure. Synthetic will build pressure almost twice as fast as dino, colder temps the difference is even greater. AT 35*F dino can take up to 20 seconds to build 40 psi, synthetic 10 seconds or a little less. Take it down to 25*F the difference is more noticeable, and synthetic begins to shine.
What does that translate to under normal engine conditions, hard to say. First off an engine oil pump is much stronger and more efficient, but the synthetic does build pressure faster with my pre-luber.
First off the pre-luber is an electric oil pump, which pumps oil from the sump and feeds it into where the oil sending unit screws into the block via a Tee fitting, I flip a switch oil pumps. At about 35*F I can notice a difference between 5w30 conventional and 5W30 synthetic oil in how fast the little pump builds pressure. Synthetic will build pressure almost twice as fast as dino, colder temps the difference is even greater. AT 35*F dino can take up to 20 seconds to build 40 psi, synthetic 10 seconds or a little less. Take it down to 25*F the difference is more noticeable, and synthetic begins to shine.
What does that translate to under normal engine conditions, hard to say. First off an engine oil pump is much stronger and more efficient, but the synthetic does build pressure faster with my pre-luber.
my friend works at sears auto center and he can hook me up with oil change for dirt cheap. They uses Valvoline Synpower, any experience with this oil guys?
...but you're in Texas.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I've seen 0*F and fished in 112*F.
Yawn...
Seen lower/higher than that on both ends THIS YEAR. (and EVERY year)
And amazing how I get by with using any rated oil in every vehicle that we own....
And I don't even have an "easy" on the oil vehicle like you do.
I've seen 0*F and fished in 112*F.
Yawn...
Seen lower/higher than that on both ends THIS YEAR. (and EVERY year)
And amazing how I get by with using any rated oil in every vehicle that we own....
And I don't even have an "easy" on the oil vehicle like you do.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Your welcome to your opinion,but,my question was to Bill,not you.
It doesn't matter who the question was for. As Bill stated earlier, this is a site of fact, not fiction.
It's every members job to help keep this site free of misinformation.
Your welcome to your opinion,but,my question was to Bill,not you.
It doesn't matter who the question was for. As Bill stated earlier, this is a site of fact, not fiction.
It's every members job to help keep this site free of misinformation.
Don't deflect. You still have not provided any citations of any articles,to support your incorrect claim that conventional oil flows as quickly as synthetic oil. You also claimed that only a conventional oil was needed in Texas. Now that,I and others,have informed you that our temperature swings can be significant,would you like to correct that incorrect statement?
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Don't deflect. You still have not provided any citations of any articles,to support your incorrect claim that conventional oil flows as quickly as synthetic oil. You also claimed that only a conventional oil was needed in Texas. Now that,I and others,have informed you that our temperature swings can be significant,would you like to correct that incorrect statement?
Who deflecting? (YOU posted it!
I'm just showing you that Texas is NOTHING compared to other places)
I'm over with the FACT that all oils in your temperatures are the same.. IE a 5w30 is a 5w30 no matter its a syn or conventional as far as "flows".
Your NORMAL temps and even your once in a few years is nothing.
In your Honda or any of my vehicles all is NEEDED is a conventional oil. That is a correct statement. Others have tried to also jump in with facts but best for you to redirect/ignore them...
Enough said.
Don't deflect. You still have not provided any citations of any articles,to support your incorrect claim that conventional oil flows as quickly as synthetic oil. You also claimed that only a conventional oil was needed in Texas. Now that,I and others,have informed you that our temperature swings can be significant,would you like to correct that incorrect statement?
Who deflecting? (YOU posted it!
I'm over with the FACT that all oils in your temperatures are the same.. IE a 5w30 is a 5w30 no matter its a syn or conventional as far as "flows".
Your NORMAL temps and even your once in a few years is nothing.
In your Honda or any of my vehicles all is NEEDED is a conventional oil. That is a correct statement. Others have tried to also jump in with facts but best for you to redirect/ignore them...
Enough said.
The fact of the matter is that one cold start a day isn't going to make any difference. It's not like the engine will see any advantage during it's subsequent hours of operation.
Arguing that synthetic flow is better is esoteric in the extreme until you can show some engine wear data that is conclusive. The best of my knowledge, dino generally produces lower wear rates than synthetic, making the "flow" argument even more esoteric.
Arguing that synthetic flow is better is esoteric in the extreme until you can show some engine wear data that is conclusive. The best of my knowledge, dino generally produces lower wear rates than synthetic, making the "flow" argument even more esoteric.
Well this thread has gone far enough.
The OP had his question answered.
The rest will stand on its own.
Any comments, PM me.
Bill
The OP had his question answered.
The rest will stand on its own.
Any comments, PM me.
Bill
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