Considering a 2001 Miata: What to look at?

[Pesca]

Hi,

For quite some time, I am considering buying a Miata, manual, to put back some life in my life.
After some research, I stopped my choice on the years 2001 to 2005 (second generation except the first two years), with a 6 speeds.

I found one close by, a little bit expensive (but they all are), and I will go see it on Sunday. It is a 2001 with 90.000kms (56 kmiles) on it.

I talked to the owner over the phone, and except oil changes (I believe every year as he put about 5 kmiles on it on average every year), and changing the coolant two years ago, he did not do any other maintenance on it. And alignment last year when I put new tires on it.

First thing: Timing belt is original so it needs to be changed ASAP. How much is it on average as I want him to either make it done or pay for it?

Other things: No change in either brake, manual gearbox, rear diff, and power steering fluids. It will probably be harder to make him pay to make change the fluids, but my main question is how much will it cost me to make it done (especially the gearbox and rear diff as I may be able to DIY the rest), and more importantly, what is the risks I could face changing these fluids this late in the life of the car, later on, compare with one which got more "normal" maintenance?

I heard that changing fluid in an old gearbox could make it slippery and not workable as the dirt in the old fluid helped it going. Myth or reality?

Knowing the no maintenance history of this car, what will you look at on the car when you will inspect it to know if this is a Go or NOGO?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[MrHorspwer]

In the world of Miatas, 56,000 miles is not a whole lot. The timing belt is fine (Mazda recommends 60,000 miles... except in California, then it's 90,000 miles. Exact same belt though. Figure that one out). The fluids are likely fine too. Honestly, if I were selling a 56,000 mile car, I wouldn't budge much if somebody was trying to talk down the price because of maintenance.

The BP isn't an engine to chew up timing belts and, as a bonus, it's a non-interference engine. It is also likely one of the easiest engines to do a timing belt on. If you're ambitious, it's a fun "getting-to-know-your-car" project.

If you have the tools to do an oil change, you can change the fluid in the trans and diff too. Nothing special here except a fluid transfer pump to get fluid back into the trans without making a mess. Kids stuff.

Redline MT90 and MTL are popular trans fluid choice in the Mazda community. Don't worry about the fluid being "too slippery". Neither the 5 or 6 speed is very particular about fluid. I ran MT90 in my 145,000 gearbox with great success and I didn't baby the gearbox... at all.

Being a 6 speed car, it will have a Torsen diff in the rear. This requires no special fluid or friction modifier. Pour in whatever 75W90 you'd like.

My only suggestion: Don't limit yourself to a 6 speed. More isn't always better. I auto-x'd with a few guys who *hated* their 6 speed transmission. Second is way too short and third is a touch too tall. This leaves the driver muddling between second and third all the time. Just something to consider.

The benefit to buying a 6 speed car is you know you're getting an LSD. That said, I'd still pick a 5 speed with an LSD over a 6 speed.

As far as what to look for: If you're not a DIY type, make sure the top is good. The top really scares many people and it's hard to find anybody short of an auto upholstry shop to work on them. If it's been driven in winter, make sure to check for rust behind the front wheel, in front of the rear wheel, and along the rockers. More of an issue with the NA cars, but it can happen on an NB too.

Otherwise, except for the extremely early examples, Miata are generally bulletproof. They're simple cars that require simple maintaince. Whatever little issues may crop up are typically well documented across the internet and help is in abundance. Make friends with the folks over at miata.net and look through their FAQ.

A great purchase to go along with the car is a copy of Miata Performance Projects. It's written by Keith Tanner who works for Flyin' Miata. There is a walk-thru for pretty much every single maintenance procedure you're concerned about in the book. Keith is also a great guy to talk to or exchange emails with if you ever purchase from Flyin' Miata. Their shop photo blogs are also quite entertaining.

 

[HTSS_TR]

If you like a Miata because it's a lite 2-seat convertible, did you consider the Honda S2000 ?

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

What limits you to the 2nd gen?

 

[Pesca]

MrHorspwer, thank you so much for all the information. Some say in their ads that Mazda recommends changing the belt 96.000 kms or 8 which ever comes first. That sounds logical even if in the owner manual, it only says 96.000 kms. Changing a timing belt is quite expensive, that is why I wanted him to take some part of the bill. He told I am not the first one to talk him about that. For the other fluids, that is not that expensive, or I will do it myself.
As for the 6 speeds, I understand that with the 6 speeds, you have the limited slip diff, what you don't have with the 5 speeds, and a firmer suspension? Am I right?
I am just missing so much changing gears, that is may be why I want one more ;-)). I am looking at all 2001-2005 miata ads that I see anyway.

HSS_TR and asaincivicmaniac, the S2000 and the 3rd gen are out of my budget, that is why I am limiting myself to the 2nd gen. I also removed the 1st gen and the 99 and 2000 model because of esthetic preferences.

Does anyone know how much it is to change the timing belt?
Anything else apart from the top to look at more carefully?

 

[Pesca]

What about a Mazdaspeed? Is a turbo a major source of problems? Is it worth the extra dollars or the NA engine is enough to have fun?

There is a 2004 with only 44.000 kms on sale which is a little bit high on my budget, but I could add it in my choices if the fun is proportionally increased.

Opinions on the turbo version compare to the NA version?

 

[MrHorspwer]

Personally, I've never found a Miata to be lacking power. The rest of the car is dynamic enough that you just don't notice the lack of umph. To be cliche: It's mroe fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

I have driven a few Mazdaspeed cars. It's still not a rocketship, but it's noticably quicker. The rest of the car is probably one of the best combination of parts and options on any from-the-factory Miata.

Callaway did the engineering on the turbo in the Mazdaspeed Miata (they also did the Mazdaspeed Protoge). It is generally reliable, if not a bit on the small side. That will be your big limiter (intercooler size is small too) if you choose to chase more power down the line. There are a few companies who will help you around that obstacle though.

 

[harbor]

If you haven't already done so, check out www.miata.net. Ton of good info there regarding your concerns.

 

[bustednutz]

As an owner of a 3rd gen Miata, all I can say is go for it. They are tiny inside though. Easy to maintain, zippy and handle terrific! They come with a host of small little rattles and buzz's though. Just crank up the tunes and enjoy.
You won't regret it.

 

[Cujet]

I love the Miata's. The years you are looking at are great. The engines last nearly forever, are bulletproof and quite responsive/fun to drive. However, they are not fast cars. A trip up an on ramp next to a Toyota Sienna minivan will put the little miata in it's place.

But, not all six speed manuals came with Torsen limited slips. There were models that had open diff's and some of the later cars had conventional limited slips.

The torsen is certainly the one to get, they are tough and they work, every time. Both wheels spin under power.

The turbo versions are fantastic. They are plenty fast in stock form and can be modified to reliable and absurd power levels with relative ease (not cheaply though) .

 

[tdpark]

My brother has the base 5 speed and he loves it. The car is easy to work on and everything is pretty accessible. Car is rock solid reliable. Oil changes are kind of pain if you have big hands as the filter is in a tight spot.

Beleive it or not, with snow tires, it does pretty good in the snow as long as it not too deep and does great donuts.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I love the Miata's. The years you are looking at are great. The engines last nearly forever, are bulletproof and quite responsive/fun to drive. However, they are not fast cars. A trip up an on ramp next to a Toyota Sienna minivan will put the little miata in it's place.

But, not all six speed manuals came with Torsen limited slips. There were models that had open diff's and some of the later cars had conventional limited slips.

The torsen is certainly the one to get, they are tough and they work, every time. Both wheels spin under power.

The turbo versions are fantastic. They are plenty fast in stock form and can be modified to reliable and absurd power levels with relative ease (not cheaply though) .


Not sure about the 2nd gen, but our 3rd gen feels just as quick getting to 60 off the line as my Max, which is pretty quick for a normal sedan. Although, it does sound pretty harsh doing that. In curvy on and off ramps, I'm speeding up and having fun while others are slowing down so they don't run off the road or flip their boat.

Pesca, I can't say anything about the 2nd gen, but if it's anything like our 3rd gen then it will continually leave a smile on your face. One thing though, you have to be very careful of people driving around you, because you're so low to the ground that a lot of people don't see you. One time I had a Nissan Titan cross the street into his driveway while I was coming down the street and stopped in my lane. Luckily the next lane didn't have oncoming traffic so I swerved in time or I couldn't have stopped before having his wheel for lunch.

 

[Pesca]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
But, not all six speed manuals came with Torsen limited slips. There were models that had open diff's and some of the later cars had conventional limited slips.

The torsen is certainly the one to get, they are tough and they work, every time. Both wheels spin under power.

The turbo versions are fantastic. They are plenty fast in stock form and can be modified to reliable and absurd power levels with relative ease (not cheaply though) .


How to know what you got when you look at the car? Looking on Miata.net, it seems really hard, even with the VIN #, to know what you got in the car.

Yesterday, I tested both versions, a 2001 NA and a 2004 turbo, and the NA is fast enough for what I want to do with it. I mainly interested in going fast in corners, straight line speed is not my priority,

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
Pesca, I can't say anything about the 2nd gen, but if it's anything like our 3rd gen then it will continually leave a smile on your face. One thing though, you have to be very careful of people driving around you, because you're so low to the ground that a lot of people don't see you. One time I had a Nissan Titan cross the street into his driveway while I was coming down the street and stopped in my lane. Luckily the next lane didn't have oncoming traffic so I swerved in time or I couldn't have stopped before having his wheel for lunch.

That is what we were discussing with my friend testing the first one: Our heads were leveled with pick ups fenders and we were wondering what would happened if a pick up or a truck forgot to brake while behind us, Ooops!
But man, it felt so good driving this car.

Problem is... there seems to be a problem with the 2001 miata we tested: When we left, cold engine, we got a lot of vibrations from the rear right of the car. After about 5 minutes, we got almost no more vibration from there (I did not feel it anymore, but my friend in the passenger seat felt it occasionally).
We checked the underside of the car and my friend found some play (about 1mm radially) on the right driveshaft at the rear differential output. We tried to guess what it could be and the only answer was that the bearing in the differential could be the culprit.

What are your guys' opinions on that?
If this is the bearing, how much will it cost to make it repaired?

That is the only thing that is holding me buying the car, otherwise it is pretty much what I am looking for: Really basic car, no AC, no ABS, therefore not too expensive.
Color is a little bit blemish because the owner did not do anything on it, so I will have to ask a detailing shop if they think they can revive the color. The owner seems to agree either paying for the new timing belt or decrease the price to make me make it done. He was even talking about making the fluids changed.
Except that and some electrical gremlins, fogs not working, lock switch on the door a little bit reluctant to work and maybe license plate lights out, the car is what I am looking for.
No so much choice in that price range in my region anyway.

 

[bustednutz]

Today coming home from work, I had a new BMW 1 series on my a@@ wanting to see what I had.
I took the on ramp, Took all gears up to redline, and the car gripped like glue! He got smaller in the rear view mirror. Believe me, he was trying hard. You could tell from the lean of his car.
Once on the highway he pulled up next to me, gave me the nod of approval and went on his way.
You get that a lot in these cars. People are very surprised at their crisp and tight handling.

 

[IndyIan]

What is your price range? I'd rather get an older pristine example than a newer uncared for car for equal money.
I think if you drive a nice older one you'll find you won't care much about what the headlights look like after a while.

 

[Pesca]

My price range is from 8500$ (or less ;-D) to about 13500$, depending of age and condition.
The 2001 I tested is 9400$ with some gremlins described above and not really maintained (no care about the paint for example).
The 2004 I tested is 13500$ but he did not say at first that it was an US car and repaired from a wreck at the front right.

Both are NOGO for me and still looking for a cared old car with nothing in it: no AC, no ABS, just two seats, no roof, manual gearbox, and a lot of fun to drive.

Seems like either people put a lot of options in it (so $$) or don't take care of the cars if they buy them barebone.

 

[Vikas]

Those are some crazy expensive prices!

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

For the high end of your budget, I'm surprised you can't get a 2006 or 2007.

 

[Pesca]

Well, not in Canada.
First they were sold higher when new (between 27 and 35.000$) than in the US and in less quantity. That makes the depreciation slower too... and starting from a higher point.

The next best thing to do is to go in the US and drive back one. At the end, it will save me few thousand maybe, but I need the time to do the search, do the drive back and put the car in Canadian configuration (DRL for example) to get a plate.

Some do that, that is why you expect to pay less when you buy a car coming from the US,... what the seller of the 2004 miata did not do (he should have put it at 11-11.500$, not 13.500).

2006 Miata start at about 16-17.000$, used.

 

[Vikas]

Obviously, you are buying just when the summer is starting! Convertible should be bought in the middle of winter and sold at the end of the spring if you are trying to maximize the financial aspect.