Common shifting issues and potential causes:

[BusyLittleShop]

Motorcycle shift quality refers to how smooth, precise, and responsive your motorcycle's gearbox operates when changing gears
A good shift feels effortless and predictable, while poor shifting can manifest as rough engagement, missed gears, or difficulty in changing gears altogether.

Rough Shifting (especially 1st and 2nd gear): This is common in many motorcycles, often presenting with a "thump" or slight lunge into first gear. It can be exacerbated by:
Dragging clutch: The clutch not fully disengaging.
External shift linkage problems: Improperly adjusted shift pedal linkage.
Shifting too early: Not allowing the engine to reach optimal RPMs for a smooth shift.

Difficulty Shifting: Stiffness or resistance when changing gears can be due to:
Clutch cable issues: A stiff or worn-out clutch cable.
Low or poor-quality gear oil: Insufficient lubrication can lead to gear shift problems.
Transmission troubles: Worn-out gear components or bent shift forks.
Incorrect shift lever position: Not ideal for the rider's foot.

Slipping Gears: When the motorcycle unexpectedly shifts out of gear, indicating potential issues like worn or damaged gear components.
Unresponsive Transmission: The inability to shift gears, possibly due to a broken clutch cable or internal transmission wear.
Unusual Noises (clicking, clunking, grinding): These sounds often point to worn components or insufficient lubrication.

Improving shift quality:

Proper Shifting Technique:
Preloading the shifter: Applying slight pressure to the shift lever before engaging the clutch for a quicker shift.
Smooth clutch operation: Gradual and smooth clutch engagement and release.
Throttle control: Rolling off the throttle while shifting and smoothly rolling it back on as the clutch engages.
Matching RPMs: Coordinating throttle action with clutch release to match engine speed to the new gear speed.

Regular Maintenance: Ensure proper clutch cable adjustment, gear oil level and quality, chain tension, and lubrication.
Proper Footwear: Wearing appropriate motorcycle shoes that allow for smooth shift lever engagement.
Quick Shifters: For quicker and smoother shifts without using the clutch or rolling off the throttle.

Important Notes:

It is generally recommended to use the clutch when shifting to prevent wear on the transmission.
While skipping gears is possible, it should be done carefully and with proper clutch engagement to avoid abrupt changes in speed.
Consult your motorcycle's owner's manual for specific instructions and recommendations.
If experiencing persistent shifting problems, it's best to have your motorcycle checked by a professional mechanic.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Ducati V4...

 

[KrisZ]

I can upshift and downshift pretty smoothly without using the clutch by simply rolling off the throttle, or blipping the throttle at the correct time.
Motorcycle transmissions are not like car manual transmissions. They are constant mesh, meaning all gears are always meshed with each other. Therefore throttle and clutch control are very critical, because even if there is a little bit of pre-load on the gears, they will be harder to shift. Clutch alone is not enough, because in wet clutches, there is always some drag induced by the oil.

Another aspect is gear cut. Some gears are cut for smoother engagement, but it makes them weaker, or they have to be heavier to compensate. Some are cut for maximum strength and minimum weight, and those will be noisier and harder to shift.

 

[facility1]

worn shift return spring ,

 

[Bonz]

So we just got a lesson in how to shift a motorcycle, what is the relevance? An attempt at saying a rider doesn't notice a difference in the feel when shifting as oil shears?

 

[ZeeOSix]

I've been working on and riding motorcycles for many decades - both dirt bikes and road bikes. All with healthy clutches and appropriately adjusted clutches. I know how to skillfully shift them, and I also know that shifting quality changes due to the oil used and miles on the oil. As mentioned in the cycle oil change thread, I've experience many bikes that shift better when the oil is still pretty cold and thick, and then can become a hair notchy comparatively after it thins down after getting to full operating temperature.

 

[KrisZ]

I've been working on and riding motorcycles for many decades - both dirt bikes and road bikes. All with healthy clutches and appropriately adjusted clutches. I know how to skillfully shift them, and I also know that shifting quality changes due to the oil used and miles on the oil. As mentioned in the cycle oil change thread, I've experience many bikes that shift better when the oil is still pretty cold and thick, and then can become a hair notchy comparatively after it thins down after getting to full operating temperature.

My Honda Valkyrie was actually the opposite, it’s started off pretty notch when cold and improved as the oil got warmer and thinned out.

You just never know on some bikes. And notchy doesn’t mean bad.

 

[Bonz]

My Honda Valkyrie was actually the opposite, it’s started off pretty notch when cold and improved as the oil got warmer and thinned out.

You just never know on some bikes. And notchy doesn’t mean bad.

Agree with what you are saying. However, the principle of what the poster is saying is there should be no difference in shift feel during the lifecycle of an OCI, and is relating shift feel to mechanical causes.

Read again what he is saying. The post makes no mention of anything related to engine oil in the cut and pasted litany.

By the oft repeated posts the Valkyrie has something wrong with the clutch adjustment, you probably aren't wearing the right shoes, you are shifting at too low of an engine speed and gear oil in the FD housing is low and of poor quality. Do you believe that is the case with your bike? I don't believe any of those things with respect to you and your bike. You clearly know how to ride, shift and maintain your bike.

What you said is absolutely correct. As the sump oil is put into use each ride, things change with the feel of shifting. Nothing bad for the bike in that. By the same token oil ages and shears over the course of an OCI and overall shift feel changes even once warmed up. Nothing bad for the bike there either. The info posted here and other threads is saying it's all in the riders mind. Do you believe that is the case with what you described in your post?

 

[KrisZ]

The info posted here and other threads is saying it's all in the riders mind. Do you believe that is the case with what you described in your post?

Some of it can definitely be in someone’s head, especially if one is the “worrying” type.

Other than that, the shifter is a direct connection to the shifting forks. Of course the user will have a much greater feeling of the mechanical connection vs something more isolated, like a car gear shifter.

To suggest otherwise would be silly. I don’t think the premise of the OP is to suggest that the shifting should feel and be the same at all times. Just explains some way to improve it, if one is having trouble with it.
Of course some transmissions will simply be rougher by their nature vs others.

 

[Bonz]

If all the mechanical issues are addressed, the only thing left is the oil and the rider's "seat of the pants" experience on their bike. If you've seen anything over the years about what the OP has posted, both of those get dismissed heartily. They are the two main contributors. Bear in mind, we're talking about how it feels different at different times and the engine oil is a main factor vs the only source for a difference in feel according to the OP is mechanical.

There is no acknowledgment of a riders experience and feel on a particular bike, nor of the oil aging through an OCI contributing to a difference in feel. If you find either of those acknowledged by the OP, there's more than just a few of us that would like to see as well.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

The post makes no mention of anything related to engine oil in the cut and pasted litany.

Mercy Bonz... Under difficulty shifting I do acknowledge "poor quality oil..."

 

[BusyLittleShop]

delete

 

[mk378]

The original post reeks of AI.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The original post reeks of AI.

It's mostly cut and post stuff, so basically "AI" based.

 

[rijndael]

It's mostly cut and post stuff, so basically "AI" based.

 

[02SE]

I just hope @BusyLittleShop can refrain from posting pics of himself in his underwear (the horror), as he has been known to do in the past when this topic comes up...

 

[Bonz]

BLS, please highlight where in the opening post you acknowledge engine oil has a part in shift feel either between different brands, different viscosities, etc. It is not there.

Your words under "Difficulty shifting":

"Difficulty Shifting: Stiffness or resistance when changing gears can be due to:
Clutch cable issues: A stiff or worn-out clutch cable.
Low or poor-quality gear oil: Insufficient lubrication can lead to gear shift problems.
Transmission troubles: Worn-out gear components or bent shift forks".

Below is part of your post copied over from a different thread about viscosity differences from a Yamaha engineer.

Your words:

"My new FZ8 customer though he was experiencing notchy shifting on
factory fill Yama Lube after switching from 40 to 30... like you he
wasn't sure if the oil was the problem... So we called Yamaha customer
relations and got an official technician on the line and asked if
there was a difference in shifting quality with respect to oil
grade??? the response was a reassuring "no" an owner will not
experience "poor shifting" between the viscosity grades..."

You then say in this except from another post in the thread that it was clutch drag.

Your words:

"My FZ8 customer Dillion poor shifting was clutch drag... he reports
smooth as butter shifts on Mobil 1 5W30 API SN at 4K miles..."

You never answered my question from that thread. Here it is again: How did your customer notice a difference in shift feel (notchy) going from Xw40 to Xw30 when the Yamaha engineer said oil would not make a difference? Yet "clutch drag" occurred with the lighter oil and not the heavier oil? Come on, LOL.

I repeat so it's clear, your customer noticed a change in shifting when he switched to lower viscosity that a Yamaha engineer said "no" to when asked if that could happen. If he had clutch drag as you say was the problem, really interesting it didn't happen with the Xw40 but did happen going down to Xw30. And once the clutch was apparently adjusted, it is smooth as butter now running 5w30 Mobil 1 car oil. How could this be smooth as butter? See your quote below dismissing engine oil as a factor, as it is mechanical hypochondria according to more engineers.

Your words:

"Engineers say that oil shear as related to shift quality is pure mechanical hypochondria...
A rider's foot is not a reliable method for oil shear testing... ASTM D-445 is the standard
that objectively measures the rate of oil shear...

A rider is a wild and variable component on a motorcycle... change
the rider and you change all the shift variables..".

Mercy, BLS.

 

[ZeeOSix]

"Engineers say that oil shear as related to shift quality is pure mechanical hypochondria..."

Who are these "Engineers", and where is the official study of this claimed phenomena?

 

[Bonz]

Who are these "Engineers", and where is the official study of this claimed phenomena?

That general question has been asked of the poster for the better part of half a decade or more to substantiate posted elusive ethereal knowledge.

 

[jeff78]

I always suspected Skynet replaced BLS years ago. Now we have proof.