Clutch drag on 2020 WR450 YZ450 MA1 MA2 oil types

[bearmatt]

My brother and I have two exact same, Yamaha 2020 WR450F (from different dealers) and both have terrible clutch drag.
It makes them impossible to start, unless you can find neutral, which you cant find anyway.
We hoped that a part of the fix might be to use an MA1 type oil but it seems impossible to find in Australia.
Would it be true that if I can find a JASON MA oil, it is more likely to be 'slippier' than MA2? (because it doesn't meet the MA2 specs and if it did, then they would sell it as MA2)
Are there some additives or keywords I should look for (like zinc ?) that would suggest a 'slippier' type of oil.
Manual says I can use "JASO standard MA"
Thanks for any help.
Matt

 

[ZeeOSix]

Manual says I can use "JASO standard MA".

I doubt there will be any difference between JASO MA1 and MA2 in this case.

Sounds like the clutch isn't being fully disengaged. Double check all clutch play settings per the manual first. Do all bikes of this model have clutch drag? ... maybe search YouTube. Maybe it's a clutch and clutch actuator design flaw.

 

[Rand]

Mechanical problem. something needs adjusted or fixed.

Jaso MA was split into 2 smaller sections the friction range of JASO MA1+Jaso MA2 = Jaso MA

So a JASO MA oil could be JASO MA1 or MA2 and both JASO MA1 or MA2 Meets JASO MA

That all being said.. use JASO MA2 and get bike fixed.

 

[bearmatt]

I doubt there will be any difference between JASO MA1 and MA2 in this case.

Sounds like the clutch isn't being fully disengaged. Double check all clutch play settings per the manual first. Do all bikes of this model have clutch drag? ... maybe search YouTube. Maybe it's a clutch and clutch actuator design flaw.

Its how they seem to make many new enduro, mx bikes, with clutch drag, so they are crazy fast out of the gate. There is clutch drag on many new Yamahas, Ktms, Beta, Husqvarna, Gas Gas, so not sure a blanket statement of mechanical problem is of much advice, but thanks.
Cable adjustments have made no difference to our WR450 in case anyone asks.
Was hoping that some advice about oil types (or additives to look for) might help not hinder the problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Every motorcycle clutch has a bit of drag when it's disengaged just due to the viscosity of the oil between the slightly separated plates. You can see this if the rear wheel is off the ground and the engine is running in neutral with the clutch fully disengaged and the throttle is blipped ... the rear wheel will turn from the viscous link between the clutch plates. Some bikes are worse than others, and IMO if it's really bad drag it's because the clutch plates are not separating far enough for what ever reason(s).

I would think the clutch drag is much more noticeable when the oil is cold and thick vs hot and thin ... yes or now with your Yamahas?

 

[sunruh]

 

[Killer223]

my crf450 was bad about that with 10/40, i swapped to hp4 10/30 and it almost went away.

 

[Cujet]

If the plates are separating properly and fully, then it's the viscosity that is causing the drag. Anti friction additives won't reduce the friction of viscous drag. They can in some rare cases, cause a marginal clutch to slip under heavy load.

 

[DGXR]

My 2016 Yamaha WR450F has some real clutch drag. The drag is much stronger when the bike is cold, but even fully hot it will drag some. Otherwise it runs and rides great so I don't worry about it much really, stay on top of maintenance since the oil capacity is so ridiculously small. I'm running 10w40 MA oil. I bought my bike used and have considered pulling the clutch cover and the innards, just to check everything over including the basket and hub and all the plates & springs. I have heard this drag is "normal" for the modern Yamaha dirt bikes although it sure would be nice to have less drag lol. Also I remember seeing a thread on Thumpertalk where someone fixed the issue by using a lower torque value on the clutch springs/assembly, or a washer mod, or some such thing.

 

[ad244]

I had this happen with an older (2006 I think) YZ250F. It happened on 10w-50 Yamalube, Bike had a ton of hours over the years and never had an issue.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

My brother and I have two exact same, Yamaha 2020 WR450F (from different dealers) and both have terrible clutch drag.

First thing to check and eliminate is unwanted clutch drag...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle at 212ºF (operating temp)...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Continue holding in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop or not...
if it continues spinning that's unwanted drag... adjust...

To adjust a cable equipped bike turn the small knob clock wise (out)
1/4 turn and test for clutch drag... if your bike is equipped with
hydraulics bleed system for bubbles...

Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...

Second if you have after market clutch plates go back to stock and note if drag drops...

Are there some additives or keywords I should look for (like zinc ?) that would suggest a 'slippier' type of oil.
Manual says I can use "JASO standard MA"
Thanks for any help.
Matt

Understanding Zinc means it doesn't activate between clutch plates...

Zinc is not even a lubricant until heat and load are applied. Zinc is
only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine.
At that point zinc must react with the heat and load to create the
sacrificial film that allows it to protect flat-tappet camshafts and
other highly loaded engine parts.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Would it be true that if I can find a JASON MA oil, it is more likely to be 'slippier' than MA2? (because it doesn't meet the MA2 specs and if it did, then they would sell it as MA2)

No one has data to answer your question because JASO does not
test oils. They only register oils based on manufacturer data and site.
Most of the data is generated by additive package manufacturers.
The system is just for registration. They hate any term that legally
implies their approval such as “certified by”.

Cost to register one grade of oil from one manufacturing site is
40,000 Japanese Yen or about USD $365.00.

JASO sets the standard. JALOS has the responsibility for the review
and registration. Once this is done you have the right to use the mark
on your labels. The documents submitted for review include the
technical performance data and label design.

Quote JASO
"The Panel may disclose the results of market surveys in a manner such
that particular names of submitters and their oil products are not
identifiable."

 

[sunruh]

clutch drag is ONLY because of 1 or 2 or 3 of these (provided shafts n bushings are all correct):
outer clutch basket
inner clutch hub
clutch plates

 

[1978elcamino]

Try more oil. If all else fails buy a set of aluminum plates. Its proven that steel plates are more grabby than aluminum and that wr probably has steels.

 

[bonjo]

I would first do the clutch either busy..shop method or the owner's handbook if you don't have rear stand.

what oil viscocity do you use & what is recomended in the owner's handbook. Dropping from say 10w40 to 5w40 or 5w30 may help (but also increase oil consumption.

On my yam XT660R with cold engine not running (worse in the winter) I cannot push the bike if it is in gear and the clutch depressed. I can move it only if it is in neutral. I have done all he checks in the 12 years I have had it and just accept it as a feature!