Wondering if there are any Pontiac owners here? It’s hard (in my opinion) to discuss and glean info from any of the Facebook groups due to the trolls lurking about. I’m changing the cam, lifters, and valve springs in my 1968 Firebird 350 and like the Melling selection of stock camshafts and components. What’s the consensus on Melling products? Leaning toward Hylift Johnson lifters as well. Thanks.
Classic Pontiac Owners
- Thread starter PontiacHO
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Facebook groups are the worse places to discuss a particular make or model, no so much because of the people but the format. Internet forums are far superior for that and there are plenty of those around.
https://www.gtoforum.com/forums/
https://pontiacforum.com/pontiac/
https://www.gtoforum.com/forums/
https://pontiacforum.com/pontiac/
We had a couple of Pontiac family cars, and I was a big fan of Firebirds and Trans Ams. My favorite was the 1971 Trans Am 455 HO which could do a high 13 quarter mile. Another outstanding Trans Am was the 2000 Firebird Trans Am WS6 which did a 13.5 quarter mile but notably it could do 0 to 60 in 4.9 seconds. Unfortunately it looked too much like a “Batman” car for me. I’ve posted in the past that modern muscle cars can blow these away, but there really was something special about that 71.
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Ex-owner here (see signature), my first car was a Pontiac and I have owned, raced (Division 6 NHRA) and restored a number of them for over 40 years.
Why are you replacing all those items with, essentially, the same stock components? If they are worn out then fine, otherwise, you are not making any change. Melling quality, in my experience, has always been excellent. I use their products extensively and every engine I have ever rebuilt has had a Melling oil pump installed. However, I would never give up good condition original GM parts though unless I wanted a big change, especially in a daily driver car.
I had the Pontiac 350 in my daily driver 1970 LeMans Sport. It is a reliable engine, needs a timing chain around 50,000 miles and that is about it. It does not respond well to camshafts much beyond stock figures without spending a bunch of money on other engine work. I put the Pontiac 9068 cam in my LeMans and was disappointed in the low end power afterwards. That cam works well in the 400 engines (best 400 cam is the 744) but not the 350. I experimented with several aftermarket camshafts (Crane etc.) and ended up going to a Pontiac 9067, which was one step above the factory 350 camshaft.
Your post has no information on the engine (is it stock?) and what you use the car for (cruising, shows, daily driver, rear axle ratio, compression ratio (there are 2 options in 1968) etc.) so it is hard to recommend the right camshaft for you. If you want general drivability, a quiet valvetrain and decent power throughout the factory RPM range I would probably get the Comp 252. If you are loyal to Melling, then the MTP1 is the most you should use if the rest of the engine is stock. The factory Pontiac valvetrain is non-adjustable (except the Ram Air IV) so unless you change that, you want to stay conservative on your camshafts.
The biggest mistake everyone makes on camshafts is putting "too big" of a cam in. Drivability, low end street power etc. suffer enormously and you are very unhappy. Stay on the conservative side in your choice.
If you are not racing, then stay with stock springs and / or stock spring pressures. Excessive spring pressure causes valvetrain problems. Again, without information on your use and performance level it is hard to give you suggestions. Street use in my 350 I went with 100 lbs on the seat and 265ish at full lift. Never lost a lobe or wore anything out and certainly never had valve float. I did not rev that motor beyond 5000 RPM.
I mentioned non-adjustable valvetrain, every Pontiac engine I have owned, except my 350 LeMans and my RAIV Judge (adjustable from the factory), I installed an adjustable valvetrain. It is easy on heads with screw in rocker studs, my 350 had press in studs so that was not possible without machine work. The only 350 engines that had screw in studs were the 4bbl engines, you don't indicate what 350 you have but if you have screw in studs, then the upgrade to an adjustable valvetrain is a good investment if you are playing around with aftermarket camshafts.
Why are you replacing all those items with, essentially, the same stock components? If they are worn out then fine, otherwise, you are not making any change. Melling quality, in my experience, has always been excellent. I use their products extensively and every engine I have ever rebuilt has had a Melling oil pump installed. However, I would never give up good condition original GM parts though unless I wanted a big change, especially in a daily driver car.
I had the Pontiac 350 in my daily driver 1970 LeMans Sport. It is a reliable engine, needs a timing chain around 50,000 miles and that is about it. It does not respond well to camshafts much beyond stock figures without spending a bunch of money on other engine work. I put the Pontiac 9068 cam in my LeMans and was disappointed in the low end power afterwards. That cam works well in the 400 engines (best 400 cam is the 744) but not the 350. I experimented with several aftermarket camshafts (Crane etc.) and ended up going to a Pontiac 9067, which was one step above the factory 350 camshaft.
Your post has no information on the engine (is it stock?) and what you use the car for (cruising, shows, daily driver, rear axle ratio, compression ratio (there are 2 options in 1968) etc.) so it is hard to recommend the right camshaft for you. If you want general drivability, a quiet valvetrain and decent power throughout the factory RPM range I would probably get the Comp 252. If you are loyal to Melling, then the MTP1 is the most you should use if the rest of the engine is stock. The factory Pontiac valvetrain is non-adjustable (except the Ram Air IV) so unless you change that, you want to stay conservative on your camshafts.
The biggest mistake everyone makes on camshafts is putting "too big" of a cam in. Drivability, low end street power etc. suffer enormously and you are very unhappy. Stay on the conservative side in your choice.
If you are not racing, then stay with stock springs and / or stock spring pressures. Excessive spring pressure causes valvetrain problems. Again, without information on your use and performance level it is hard to give you suggestions. Street use in my 350 I went with 100 lbs on the seat and 265ish at full lift. Never lost a lobe or wore anything out and certainly never had valve float. I did not rev that motor beyond 5000 RPM.
I mentioned non-adjustable valvetrain, every Pontiac engine I have owned, except my 350 LeMans and my RAIV Judge (adjustable from the factory), I installed an adjustable valvetrain. It is easy on heads with screw in rocker studs, my 350 had press in studs so that was not possible without machine work. The only 350 engines that had screw in studs were the 4bbl engines, you don't indicate what 350 you have but if you have screw in studs, then the upgrade to an adjustable valvetrain is a good investment if you are playing around with aftermarket camshafts.
Firebirds, like that beautiful white example, sport the Endura bumper. The family likeness is part of American muscle car charm.
The original design shines through.
To be frank, I do remember some people at the time not liking the fairings, etc.
The original design shines through.
To be frank, I do remember some people at the time not liking the fairings, etc.
My experience with Melling engine components is that one box may be made in the USA or Canada, and the second box will be from a third world country. Spin the wheel, as you never never what you're going to get. I try and find NOS GM or NORS aftermarket from Ebay and swap meets, but that's getting more difficult too.
Part of the issue is there are fewer manufacturers of these products, and they are sourcing what's available.
Click below my signature to see my 1980 Firebird FORMULA that my wife & I bought brand new in '80
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I have never used their cams, and if I did 1 or 3 that's too small a sample. I think we used TRW or nos factory ages ago.
I would heed @marc1 advice on going conservative with cam selection for street and even street strip use.
unless you have 3:73 or lower and a close ratio 4 speed you will not be happy with the loss of lower midrange torque on stock heads.
As was mentioned a new quality timing set, long tube headers with 2 ft collector extensions, and the heads: valve job with back cuts and with hardened inserts for exhaust to make it live on no lead. While at the machine shop, get the rocker studs drilled and tapped.
Tell us more about this Nova in a Prom Dress
- Arco
I would heed @marc1 advice on going conservative with cam selection for street and even street strip use.
unless you have 3:73 or lower and a close ratio 4 speed you will not be happy with the loss of lower midrange torque on stock heads.
As was mentioned a new quality timing set, long tube headers with 2 ft collector extensions, and the heads: valve job with back cuts and with hardened inserts for exhaust to make it live on no lead. While at the machine shop, get the rocker studs drilled and tapped.
Tell us more about this Nova in a Prom Dress
- Arco
Miss my old Pontiacs - 79 Trans Am, 06 GTO, 02 Grand Prix SC and couple Grand Ams over the years! But to answer your question about parts...we do classic cars at my shop and we have noticed (like every other parts maker!) reduced quality on all the big names that always meant the best. Melling is in that category. With that being said, I would still use the Melling parts because their warranty is decent and you have better overall "odds" with them vs say a big box parts store part. We just finished up an overhaul on a 66 Coupe Deville 429 and used Melling lifters which one in the box was suspect and rattled - noticed it and was able to exchange it without issues. It can happen with and product you buy today so just carefully examine all parts before install.
BEAUTIFUL CAR!! Those Formulas are so rare and to see one in that condition is awesome!
I purchased this Firebird back in April for my retirement-hobby car. The previous owner installed a performance cam (unknown specs) in an otherwise bone stock 350 with automatic transmission and 3.08 rear. I hate it. My plan is to replace the cam with a mild Melling grind that’s a close replica of the old Pontiac 066 cam. I realize that parts aren’t what they used to be with offshore materials and production. This will be a weekend cruise car.
Yes it has the pressed in studs. There used to be some Mr. Gasket poly lock nuts that allowed for true adjustable valvetrain instead of just torquing the nuts to the stud shoulder. Hoping to find those poly locks. Along with that uncertainty is finding valve springs that are direct replacements for stock springs. Not many folks want a stock cam and valvetrain these days. I’ve been there and done that and want smooth idle and no more stinky exhaust due to overlap…
A '71 LeMans w/350 was one of two "driver's education" cars. It had hood scoops and looked fairly cool.
A '71 Dodge Charger w/318 was the other. It more resembled a stretched-out Coronet. The '68-'70 panache was gone.
Thank you.
The 066 (code N) is a perfect grind for your use, gear ratio and car weight. I don't know of a current Melling equivalent, the MTP1 is a bit hotter. Alliance Cams and Wolverine used to have a 066 equivalent but those shops are long gone. The MTP1 is identical to the old TRW TP190, a very popular grind in the larger 400. As I mentioned above, that Melling is the most you should use and given your experience already with too much camshaft I'd go even more conservative, the 066 if you can find it, or the Comp 252.
Different strokes..I would regear it, put a stall çonveter in it and plày around town in it.
we had amc hornets
I loved TRW back in the day. Great stuff. Most, if not all, of the forged piston GM engines back then had the pistons manufactured at the TRW foundry.
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