Current Flat-Tappet Synthetic Engine oil

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FrankGRUN

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I'm running a recently (1 year ago) remanufactured Ford big block 385-series 460 engine in my carbureted 1982 E350-based Motorhome. The engine was remanned to essentially stock specs except for a Melling MTF-3 torque camshaft with valve spring loading pressure when open of 255-280 psi according to the manufacturer. The cam timing is adjusted to 2 degrees advanced, the intake is an Edelbrock Performer and the carb is a custom tuned Edelbrock 1406. Finally, there is a set of Hedman Elite headers and essentially all smog equipment has been disabled. The 14,000 pound Motorhome has a C6 transmission with a Gear Vendors Overdrive and a Hughes FXM torque converter.

Since the break-in oil change, I have been using Rotella T6 15W40 oil in lieu of the high ZDDP levels and elevated temperature levels experienced by the fairly stressed engine. I now understand that Shell Rotella T6 15W40 has gone to grade CK-4 and as a result, the ZDDP levels have been significantly reduced. I have been looking at other synthetic oil possibilities that would supply high-temperature compatibility along with a balanced oil additive package that included elevated levels of ZDDP in view of the flat tappet design of the 460 engine. I am a member of the focussed website "460Ford.com" which is a resource of dedicated builders and modifiers working exclusively with the 460 engine and they have no reservations about running higher viscosity oils including 40 and 50 grades. The original factory spec called for 10W30 back in the day. In this search, I have been drawn to Castrol Edge 5W50 Synthetic oil which is specifically described as designed with a high ZDDP additive package to support Classic Cars with Flat-Tappet engines. However, I see virtually no discussion or mention of this oil on this site. If have two questions: What is the group's assessment of Castrol Edge 5W50 in this application for Flat-Tappet engines? and What would the group's best oil selection be independent of the Castrol suggestion?

Thanks for your help!
 
There is no such thing as Rotella T6 15w40. Are you running Rotella T6 5w40, or some sort of Rotella 15w40?
 
Modern synthetic engine oil handles flat tappet cams just fine without the need for sacrificial zinc additives. Go to Walmart and take your pick.

The only use I see for such additives would be for break-in and then straight engine oil with nothing added.

Modern materials, methods and designs combined with current warranty spec oils are so good that the non-hydraulic lifters in my V8 4Runner are expected to go for the life of the engine without the need for an adjustment using dyno 5w-30 oil.
 
The first thing that came to my mind when I read your post was Mobil 1 15w-50 however I do not know what it's current zinc levels are.


Never used them but Amnsoil ZROD (10w-30 and 20w-50) and Amsoil Premium Protection (10w-40 and 20w-50) both claim high levels of zinc and for flat tappet cams.
 
If I remember correctly and I think I do, Mobil 1 synthetic oils in grades such used most often in automobiles have about 800ppm zinc
Mobil 1 15w50 has about 1200 ppm zinc. I currently run this oil in my Harley due to a great buy on this oil at Autozone
If you want more zinc, you could buy Mobil 1 20w50 that is made for VTwin motorcycles. It has about 1600 ppm but is otherwise about the same as Mobil 1 15w50 in other properties and additives.

Mobil 1 is also running a rebate for $12 for 5 quart purchase. \Check their website.

Hope this helps
 
Sorry guys, that is my typo and the current oil I'm using is Rotella 5W40. My concern leading to this post arises from reading the current Shell advertising blurb on Rotella T6. In the past, the description of the Rotella T6 5W40 diesel oil included statements that its additive package was just fine for gasoline engines as well. The mulifunction of both gas and diesel applications is no longer mentioned in their description of the CK-4 version. Plus they specifically say that they re-engineered their addative package to reduce the zinc levels.
 
Originally Posted By: FrankGRUN
Sorry guys, that is my typo and the current oil I'm using is Rotella 5W40. My concern leading to this post arises from reading the current Shell advertising blurb on Rotella T6. In the past, the description of the Rotella T6 5W40 diesel oil included statements that its additive package was just fine for gasoline engines as well. The mulifunction of both gas and diesel applications is no longer mentioned in their description of the CK-4 version. Plus they specifically say that they re-engineered their addative package to reduce the zinc levels.


The 460 is a fantastic engine and your engine builder picked a great camshaft for the application. If you're worried about the new CK-4 oil spec look no further than the older specs. Wal-Mart SuperTech 15w40 diesel oil would be a great choice. I can't think of a good reason to run a synthetic oil in that engine or a fancy conventional when Super Tech 15w40 would take you into the hundreds of thousands of miles on your new engine.
 
I just drained out a change of Schaeffer's 7000 10w30 in my flat tappet 454-powered 1-ton GMC and was very happy with that oil's performance. It's a syn blend but the hot idle oil pressure retention really impressed me - towing a 31' camper in 95-degree heat where the temp gauge was staying 20+ degrees higher than normal, and the oil pressure at stop lights was <5 PSI less than any other time. And that was with 7 months and at least 3,000 miles on the oil. They make a 10w30 "racing oil" - I suspect it's just their syn blend with extra zinc but that's just a guess.
 
How about an old-school oil for that old-school engine:
Valvoline VR1 conventional in a 50/50 mix of the 10w30 and 20w50.

What fluid are you running in the GearVendors OD? Change it often.
 
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I'd use M1 15W-50 - that's what I used in my big block Suburban when I towed a 12,000 lb race car trailer on hot summer days. Cheap and available at Walmart.
 
Really appreciate all the comments and suggestions! FlyNavyP3, I'm constantly surprised at the torque and responsiveness of this engine. This 14,000-pound beast tools around on interstates, in city traffic and up/down the Sierra Nevada as well as our Subaru Forester! A_Harman, I'm using AC/Delco 75W90 synthetic in the Gear Vendors Overdrive, but haven't changed it for the last 15,000 miles. I will attend to that ASAP!

I main concern about going to the synthetic oils is that the engine compartment temperatures are so high when cruising. The engine is equipped with an oil cooler and I measured the inlet temperature to the cooler outside Dallas in the course of a 8700-mile circumnavigation of the USA! The temperature hovered around 230F, as I recall (disorganized notes). So the high-temperature capability of the synthetics seems really desirable. Prior to doing the remanufactured engine, the original motor running 10W40 conventional would often show less than 15 psi oil pressure at idle in town after a highway cruise. In my current configuration, I'm not digitally measuring oil pressure (just relying on Ford's mechanical in-dash analog gauge. But the lowest oil pressure I see is mid-gauge and the highest, immediately after a cold start, is just shy of the end of the good operating range on the gauge. No noise from the engine other than the sound of gasoline rapidly flowing into the carburetor. I should also comment that the addition of the ceramic coated headers made a huge difference in underhood and doghouse temperatures.

As I have been following the comments and suggestions here, I have been really impressed with the specs of the Mobil 1 15W50! I've contacted the help desk at ExxonMobil and they confirmed that their 15W50 was specifically formulated for this engine system. Further, here in Reno, a 5-quart jug of Mobil 1 15W50 costs $22 at Walmart, while a 6-quart case of Castrol Edge 5W50 costs $63!
 
M1 15w50 is good. It's pretty old school, too. We used to run it in our V12 marine engines at Torque Engineering.
 
Originally Posted By: FrankGRUN
I main concern about going to the synthetic oils is that the engine compartment temperatures are so high when cruising.


This is the very reason to consider synthetic lubricants
smile.gif
. They're much more stable at high temperatures as a result of their higher viscosity index (VI.) And as a result of a naturally higher VI's they don't require the addition of many (if any) VI-Improves which break-down over time changing the properties of the oil (making it thinner in most cases when hot.) That's why synthetics are spec'd in all modern petrol engines (and all passenger diesel's as well,) because the demands that tighter tolerances and higher combustion temperatures place on the lubricant. Especially in petrol turbocharged applications. (Diesel turbos do run cooler, as the EGT's are lower.)

Seriously don't be afraid of synthetics. Despite Amsoil's questionable marketing tactics... they make a quality selection of either PAO based (the signiture series) or Group-3 based products that would be perfect for your application. The Z-Rod as another member mentioned. Also remember that the critical 'cam-break-in' has come and gone some time ago. That cam and lifter package will be well hardened by now.

Personally I prefer my oil from companies that are vertically integrated (they pump the gas/oil, make the additives, do the blending and retail.) Think Shell (Pennzoil in US,) Mobil, BP-Castrol, Caltex, Chevron-Phillips, Phillips-66.

If you've been happy with how 40-weight oils have performed, that's cool. But you'll find many modern European synthetic 30-weight (ACEA A3/B3/B4) oils have equal HTHS numbers to many conventional 40-weights. Same protection, just better fuel economy.

I'd personally avoid any 'LOW-SAPS' blends (think VW-504/507, DEXOS2, Ford-WSS-M2C-913-D, or any A1/B1/B5 spec oils,) these are genuinely not appropriate. I personally use Shell Helix Ultra (Australia) though Pennzoil Platinum in the USA is the same stuff. I'd look at the 0W40 PUP (especially if you spend time in the mountains where it gets frosty. If that oil flattens your cam, I'll buy you a new one
wink.gif
but since it's the same oil that won the 2016-Indy Car championship, I reckon my money is safe.


But sometimes you might be best just to head to the ford dealership and grab a bottle of: this.

Regards
Jordan
 
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Jordan, after going through all of the comments and suggestions here and studying the oil specs and characterizations, I have decided to switch over and standardize on Mobil 1 0W-40 FS European. I'll back it up with the Fram Ultra XG8A filter. I agree (and so does Melling after a short discussion) that the cam and lifters are well broken in and ultra high ZDDP levels are not necessary. The 100-200 ppm difference between zinc levels for Mobil 1 0W-40 vs. 15W-50 may be overcome by the faster oil support on startup in colder weather. Thanks, everyone, for the input!
 
Originally Posted By: FrankGRUN
I main concern about going to the synthetic oils is that the engine compartment temperatures are so high when cruising. The engine is equipped with an oil cooler and I measured the inlet temperature to the cooler outside Dallas in the course of a 8700-mile circumnavigation of the USA! The temperature hovered around 230F, as I recall (disorganized notes). So the high-temperature capability of the synthetics seems really desirable.


230ºF is "not that high"
275ºF is where "that high" starts, and by
305ºF is where "really high" begins.

At 230ºF, the oil is still plenty thick (especially for a 460), and is vaporizing the water efficiently for long life. 230º is also below where oil oxidation starts in earnest.

In my opinion, you have nothing to worry about with oil in the 230ºF range. Nothing at all.
 
Glad you found my senseless ramblings useful
wink.gif
. You wont be disappointed with Mobil-1 0W40 (or any BMW-LL01) spec euro oil (Pennzoil Platinum / Castrol Edge Ti / Total Quartz.) In Aus I'd say stay away from Mobil-1 (Price prohibitive $105AUD for 5L,) but in the USA it's good to go.

Oh and remember ZDDP / Moly and other 'Extreme Pressure' additives are there for when the oil film breaks down. They form a sacrificial surface layer as a 'back-up' to the hydrodynamic lubrication provided by the base oil formulation.

Regards
Jordan
 
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