Chinese Michelin Pilot Sport 5

[researcher]

I'm starting to feel like a Michelin employee lately.

More grip seems to be a popular comment

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well @michael007 what's the old saying? "You can take a horse to water but can't make them drink.." I've had awesome tires before from Nitto (for example) but others just wanted to put them down when they never even had them on their vehicle! Amazing..

I think it's awesome you're finding these great reviews, and you should be commissioned as a salesperson! lol.. but I gotta ask.. how are these new tires performing on your car? What do you think?

 

[PandaBear]

Goodyear tried that (China production) with the Marathon trailer tires. It nearly ruined their reputation. The current Goodyear Endurance trailer tires are made in the US and have an excellent reputation. They don’t cost much more than the made in China brands.

Last I heard about 5-10 years ago there was a rubber shortage in China and they were stockpiling them there. I would doubt high end tire would be exporting to US for cheap as they can be made cheaper directly from Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Mexico, etc and ship here directly.

Unless you want some specific tires not normally sold in America, why?

 

[PandaBear]

I think a lot of it has to do with corporate profits. Funny how Michelin opens a plant in China to cut manufacturing costs, yet I'm sure their prices are just as sky high as before. I have a set of Pilot AS4's on the BMW, and while they are the most expensive tires I've put on this car, they are also the most disappointing. Took three tries at three different shops to get them balanced, and all the shops commented on how they have had issues balancing them. The ride is a bit stiffer, which doesn't really bother me, but even from new they were noticeably louder than my previously worn out tires. I don't think the tires themselves are bad (grip and wear seem pretty good) but I don't think Michelin is worth the hype like it once was.

My friend who also owns an E90 BMW (2006 325i) has the General AS-05, and his car grips just as hard, rides better/quieter and for a fraction of the price.

They are likely not sending tires here from that plant to save money off YOUR sales, sending them from Thailand from the Thai rubber harvest there would likely be cheaper.

The likely reason the plant is there in China is to make OEM and replacement tires for the Chinese car factories there and the Chinese consumers there. The size and models they make likely mostly sold there, and you in the US just tag along with the production. If they are only selling for US they will likely send them directly from other rubber sources.

 

[michael007]

but I gotta ask.. how are these new tires performing on your car? What do you think?

Haven't enjoyed the fruits of my labor yet. The car had a clunking noise diagnosed when the tires were installed and I've only driven it to the car wash.

Ordered the parts from FCP for the warranty and they're arriving today so hopefully some fun testing can be done this week

 

[michael007]

The likely reason the plant is there in China is to make OEM and replacement tires for the Chinese car factories there and the Chinese consumers there. The size and models they make likely mostly sold there, and you in the US just tag along with the production. If they are only selling for US they will likely send them directly from other rubber sources.

I think you're right and we've been overthinking the impact of the Chinese factory.

The United States uses about 200 million replacement passenger car tires a year

The $1.5 billion factory in China has an output of 12 million tires and the new expansion for it has an output of 6 million tires.

18 million is a pretty small number:
-It's 9% of the amount of the tires the US uses a year
-It's 10% of all the tires Michelin makes worldwide a year

China is only 6.4% of Michelin's workforce (8000 employees vs 124,760).

 

[michael007]

So I came across an in-depth report about the expansion of their Chinese factory. Unless Google translate is wrong, it even discusses their tax payments.

"The Michelin Shenyang 6 million high-performance radial tire factory expansion project has a total construction area of about 95,000 square meters and a total project investment of 300 million euros"

Michelin spent 328 million USD for this additional output of 6 million tires.

In comparison, Nokian spent 360 million USD for their American factory with an output of 4 million a tires a year.

Some highlights:
-The production capacity of Michelin Shenyang Tire Co., Ltd. has increased to 10 million cars per year and 1.8 million trucks and buses per year.
-By 2017, the company's total output value has successfully exceeded 4.57 billion yuan ($650 million USD) and the total tax payment has reached 170 million yuan ($24.5 million USD).
-This expansion mainly includes the expansion of car tires and the expansion of mixers , and the adjustment and expansion of some public works and storage and transportation projects. After completion, it is estimated that the new output value will be about 2.5 billion yuan ($361 million USD), increasing the existing output value by more than 50%.

Link to a translated version of the report if anyone else is interested. It also talks about the construction with some photos. There will be a pop-up asking you to register but you can get rid of it by clicking the "X" on the top right corner and then it'll let you view it:

https://zhuanlan-zhihu-com.translat...=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[OVERKILL]

My Michelin snows were made in Nova Scotia, I definitely shop COO, figured they'd be made in the US plant but was pleasantly surprised that they were made in Canada. The NS economy needs all the help it can get, so I'm glad my money went there.

@Rod Knock this thread is a timely affirmation of our discussion here:

US, Philippines vow joint defense ‘anywhere in the South China Sea’

That's what I meant when I said "I thought we elected 'leaders' to make sure this (buying up American property, outsourcing our industries to China etc...) didn't happen. I'm pretty sure most Americans would be in favor of not selling farm land to China.....but our supreme leader even said "Come...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[michael007]

I definitely shop COO, figured they'd be made in the US plant but was pleasantly surprised that they were made in Canada.

Manufacturing the same product in different plants ALWAYS results in different products. While every attempt is made to minimize the differences, there is always something that isn't the same. Usually it's in rubber processing.

Rubber processing takes some heavy duty equipment, and it isn't cheap. So they tend not to change the basic equipment - only the peripheries. Plus some places restrict where the raw materials can come from.

Never bothered caring about the country of origin before as I thought all brands were like the Michelin spiel that tires will have the same quality whether they were manufactured in Shenyang or Bridgewater.

Nokian made me realize CapriRacer speaks truth.

I've had a set of Russian made Nokian One's and now I have a set of American made Nokian One's.

It's hard to believe it's the same model as the American made tire seems more quiet and somehow feels like it has significantly better grip.

 

[michael007]

figured they'd be made in the US plant but was pleasantly surprised that they were made in Canada.

The NS economy needs all the help it can get, so I'm glad my money went there.

Was just looking up the recent Bridgewater, Nova Scotia plant investment (where I think the snows are made).

The largest portion of the $220 million investment in equipment and technological upgrades—about $102.5 million ($140 million CAD)—will go toward the Bridgewater plant.

Michelin also stands to benefit from the province’s newly increased Capital Investment Tax Credit, which could represent tax savings of nearly $50 million ($61.3 million CAD) over five years, based on the planned investment.


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Bridgewater has an annual capacity for about 60,000 tons of passenger and light truck tires. It employs 1,150.

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average tire weight is 17.5lbs so 60k tons is ~6.8 million tires a year

that's pretty huge

but for this investment, they're getting 50 million $ in Nova Scotia tax breaks over 5 years. That 50 million $ covers 2 years of their Chinese factory taxes (2017 numbers from post #66) when they were making 12 million tires a years in Shenyang. Boggles the mind.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

My Michelin snows were made in Nova Scotia, I definitely shop COO, figured they'd be made in the US plant but was pleasantly surprised that they were made in Canada. The NS economy needs all the help it can get, so I'm glad my money went there.

@Rod Knock this thread is a timely affirmation of our discussion here:

US, Philippines vow joint defense ‘anywhere in the South China Sea’

That's what I meant when I said "I thought we elected 'leaders' to make sure this (buying up American property, outsourcing our industries to China etc...) didn't happen. I'm pretty sure most Americans would be in favor of not selling farm land to China.....but our supreme leader even said "Come...

bobistheoilguy.com

Your money was going there anyway considering the LPC has committed 44 million to helping Michelin expand their factories there. That is in addition to a 61 million dollar tax credit.

 

[OVERKILL]

Your money was going there anyway considering the LPC has committed 44 million to helping Michelin expand their factories there. That is in addition to a 61 million dollar tax credit.

That's nothing compared to how much they are proposing to spend on their firearms boondoggle