Just as I said the electric car is NOT ready for prime time, and probably won't be for decades.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
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Chevrolet offers to buy back Volts
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It's not inconceivable that if a conventional vehicle was crash tested with a full tank of fuel and then parked, a slow fuel leak could cause a fire some time later. The battery should have been discharged after the crash testing, just like the fuel tanks are drained. It is true that lithium ion batteries present a unique fire risk, but they are certainly more stable than, say, 20 gallons of unleaded. It's just that we've become accustomed to dealing with the hazards, and the battery cars present something new to get used to.
That being said, in ten years we may well look back on the MKI Volt as this decade's Pinto, but I doubt it. More likely, Chevrolet will make clearer the process to disconnect and/or discharge the battery after an accident, NHTSA and others will begin to think of a charged battery like a full fuel tank, and the fire risk will decrease.
That being said, in ten years we may well look back on the MKI Volt as this decade's Pinto, but I doubt it. More likely, Chevrolet will make clearer the process to disconnect and/or discharge the battery after an accident, NHTSA and others will begin to think of a charged battery like a full fuel tank, and the fire risk will decrease.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Not charger...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1068...-volt-exclusive
+1
The Volt and it's charger had apparently nothing to do with that garage fire. It appears the fire started in another area of the garage and spread over to the cars. One interesting thing to note, it appears that the fuel in the Volts gas tank caught fire long before the battery ever did, if it did at all.
Not charger...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1068...-volt-exclusive
+1
The Volt and it's charger had apparently nothing to do with that garage fire. It appears the fire started in another area of the garage and spread over to the cars. One interesting thing to note, it appears that the fuel in the Volts gas tank caught fire long before the battery ever did, if it did at all.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Just as I said the electric car is NOT ready for prime time, and probably won't be for decades.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
I suppose you came to the same conclusion regarding typical cars and their ICE engines...I mean there are over 20,000 car fires every year, and the ICE fires dont have the courtesy of waiting days or weeks to erupt into balls of flame.
Just as I said the electric car is NOT ready for prime time, and probably won't be for decades.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
I suppose you came to the same conclusion regarding typical cars and their ICE engines...I mean there are over 20,000 car fires every year, and the ICE fires dont have the courtesy of waiting days or weeks to erupt into balls of flame.
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program. Amounts to cheap "good will" advertising dollars IMO.
And nice to see that the vast majority of the current owners are excersizing a bit of common sense when viewing this NHTSA "test" procedure...and the real life implications it may or may not have on their personal safety. Which is next to nill IMO.
And nice to see that the vast majority of the current owners are excersizing a bit of common sense when viewing this NHTSA "test" procedure...and the real life implications it may or may not have on their personal safety. Which is next to nill IMO.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
I think I read earlier today that they've sold over 5,000 so far.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
I think I read earlier today that they've sold over 5,000 so far.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
Last I looked the number was right around 6,400...not sure where it stands after last months sales numbers....edit....correction, the number is right around 6,200 and that includes almost 1,200 sales in November.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
Last I looked the number was right around 6,400...not sure where it stands after last months sales numbers....edit....correction, the number is right around 6,200 and that includes almost 1,200 sales in November.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
I read that they go for about 33k new.
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Latest numbers I've seen reported are that 33 Volt owners have taken GM up on the free loaner program.
They could not have sold too many more than that
I like the Volt and I like the way it drives. I like the technology. If I could easily afford a 50K car loan, I'd purchase one. But, I simply work as a mechanic, so it's out of my reach.
I read that they go for about 33k new.
Originally Posted By: 91344George
Just as I said the electric car is NOT ready for prime time, and probably won't be for decades.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
Just as I said the electric car is NOT ready for prime time, and probably won't be for decades.
Until then DIESEL powered engines are the best way to go.
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
Originally Posted By: chad8
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
I agree that we eventually need to use electric cars BUT the technology is just not there yet, not really even close.
Until then the old technology is some of the best we have and most efficient at the moment.
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
I agree that we eventually need to use electric cars BUT the technology is just not there yet, not really even close.
Until then the old technology is some of the best we have and most efficient at the moment.
Originally Posted By: 07Wolfie
It's not inconceivable that if a conventional vehicle was crash tested with a full tank of fuel and then parked, a slow fuel leak could cause a fire some time later.
Prolly best part of an hour later max, not weeks later.
Problem with the "battery wasn't discharged properly" crowd is that every step down the accident rescue, investigation, towing, storage, and deconstruction process, everyone has to check for correct discharge, and/or do the process.
It's not a "tap tap, she's empty"
It's not inconceivable that if a conventional vehicle was crash tested with a full tank of fuel and then parked, a slow fuel leak could cause a fire some time later.
Prolly best part of an hour later max, not weeks later.
Problem with the "battery wasn't discharged properly" crowd is that every step down the accident rescue, investigation, towing, storage, and deconstruction process, everyone has to check for correct discharge, and/or do the process.
It's not a "tap tap, she's empty"
Originally Posted By: chad8
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
And the prime mover for the majority of the electricity generation today was invented by Hero 2000 years ago...hardly a basis for comparison, is it ?
At least the impulse turbine can be ranked the last few hundred years.
WRT getting away from fossil fuels, electricity isn't a fuel, it's a medium of convenience.
Diesels are 2 century's old technology. I would rather see the jump to fuel cells and electric power than going backward.
Someone needs to finally admit that unless we get away from fossil fuels very soon, this country is a goner.
And the prime mover for the majority of the electricity generation today was invented by Hero 2000 years ago...hardly a basis for comparison, is it ?
At least the impulse turbine can be ranked the last few hundred years.
WRT getting away from fossil fuels, electricity isn't a fuel, it's a medium of convenience.
Gosh! Motor Trend just listed the Volt! as a 5-Star in their 2012-2013 New Cars review...
Along with such popular favorites as...
Audi R8 ($118,500-$200,000)
Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport ($1,990,000)
Corvette ($50,500-$113,000) Yet another GM product, without a $8,000 taxpayer-funded $piff, too!
Lamborghini Aventador ($393,695)
Lamborghini Gallardo ($193,895-$253,095)
Mazda MX-5 Miata ($24,000-$30,000) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McLeran MP4-12C ($231,400)
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG ($190,000-$225,000)
Nissan GT-R ($90,950-$96,100)
ALL PORSCHE MODELS ($$$$-$$$$$+)
and Rolls-Royce (of course!)
Apparantly, other than the Volt!, a Miata (or a cheapo Corvette) you better REALLY bring your checkbook if you want something "special"!
Along with such popular favorites as...
Audi R8 ($118,500-$200,000)
Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Grand Sport ($1,990,000)
Corvette ($50,500-$113,000) Yet another GM product, without a $8,000 taxpayer-funded $piff, too!
Lamborghini Aventador ($393,695)
Lamborghini Gallardo ($193,895-$253,095)
Mazda MX-5 Miata ($24,000-$30,000) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McLeran MP4-12C ($231,400)
Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG ($190,000-$225,000)
Nissan GT-R ($90,950-$96,100)
ALL PORSCHE MODELS ($$$$-$$$$$+)
and Rolls-Royce (of course!)
Apparantly, other than the Volt!, a Miata (or a cheapo Corvette) you better REALLY bring your checkbook if you want something "special"!
Most of the US auto rags are just that....rags.
I wouldn't put much credibility in anything MT or the other mags say. Payola probably still goes on and it DOES affect what they say about the models they rate.
I wouldn't put much credibility in anything MT or the other mags say. Payola probably still goes on and it DOES affect what they say about the models they rate.
Since I work on a Gulfstream G550 corporate jet and deal with a wealthy owner and friends, I get to drive a number of the high end cars. He and his friends often pull up in very interesting and "latest and greatest" expensive toys. I get to park them often, and from time to time, get to actually drive them 6 miles to his house.
It did not take long to appreciate the niceties of the high end marques. While a Hot Rodded American muscle car can be wicked fast, the expensive stuff does it with refinement. So much so, it's often incredible.
So, I've learned never to discount the very highly regarded "top tier" cars. They are often spectacular.
It did not take long to appreciate the niceties of the high end marques. While a Hot Rodded American muscle car can be wicked fast, the expensive stuff does it with refinement. So much so, it's often incredible.
So, I've learned never to discount the very highly regarded "top tier" cars. They are often spectacular.
Originally Posted By: chad8
91344George said:
Originally Posted By: lexus114
i wonder how this will affect their bottom line.
I doubt it will hurt it much. I've never even seen one on the road yet. That was the car that was supposed to save GM wasn't it?
i wonder how this will affect their bottom line.
I doubt it will hurt it much. I've never even seen one on the road yet. That was the car that was supposed to save GM wasn't it?
I've seen exactly one on the road. But that isn't surprising, as it's still in limited production. As production at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant increases, time goes on, and price drops we should see more.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Nick R
You know what I think is hilarious. Sometimes I think people forget what cars are. Big hunks of metal and plastic, powered by GASOLINE. The average car has a 13-25gallon tank of GASOLINE. Get a leak, spark, and you have a fire. I mean honestly. And I am somewhat annoyed the the level of surprise going on here too.
Let's see.. Read this.
MORE than THREE WEEKS LATER the car catches on fire and burns itself and OTHERS beside it.
Never heard of a vehicle that holds gas doing that. Also when you get some free time read up on battery fires and see how much more dangerous they are over quite a few other fuels.
Three weeks later... Yep "hilarious".
What happens if it burns in your garage? Not a pretty site. Trust me since I had a vehicle burn its self to the ground back in 1995. Electrical fire and THANKFULLY I did not park it in my garage. It just ruined my driveway and front of the house/garage.
I'd take a gas fire over anything electrical. Pretty well the fire dept just stands back and lets it go.
Bill
Have not spent too much time on a Submarine have you Bill. Electrical fires while not common on subs useually go out when power is secured, then an agent such as AFFF or CO2 is used to cool or put out what was ignitied. I know a little bit about putting fires out from spending 11 years aboard Subs. I would much rather fight an electrical fire where I can remove the iginition source. Gas fires will reignite if not covered, smothered due the amount of heat, same goes for oil. They also spread easier if all you have to fight it with is a hose and water. It will actually spray the gas and the flame around if you hit it with too much force. Don't confuse a battery fire with an electrical fire. They are not the same. I know my life depended on it.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
You know what I think is hilarious. Sometimes I think people forget what cars are. Big hunks of metal and plastic, powered by GASOLINE. The average car has a 13-25gallon tank of GASOLINE. Get a leak, spark, and you have a fire. I mean honestly. And I am somewhat annoyed the the level of surprise going on here too.
Let's see.. Read this.
MORE than THREE WEEKS LATER the car catches on fire and burns itself and OTHERS beside it.
Never heard of a vehicle that holds gas doing that. Also when you get some free time read up on battery fires and see how much more dangerous they are over quite a few other fuels.
Three weeks later... Yep "hilarious".
What happens if it burns in your garage? Not a pretty site. Trust me since I had a vehicle burn its self to the ground back in 1995. Electrical fire and THANKFULLY I did not park it in my garage. It just ruined my driveway and front of the house/garage.
I'd take a gas fire over anything electrical. Pretty well the fire dept just stands back and lets it go.
Bill
Have not spent too much time on a Submarine have you Bill. Electrical fires while not common on subs useually go out when power is secured, then an agent such as AFFF or CO2 is used to cool or put out what was ignitied. I know a little bit about putting fires out from spending 11 years aboard Subs. I would much rather fight an electrical fire where I can remove the iginition source. Gas fires will reignite if not covered, smothered due the amount of heat, same goes for oil. They also spread easier if all you have to fight it with is a hose and water. It will actually spray the gas and the flame around if you hit it with too much force. Don't confuse a battery fire with an electrical fire. They are not the same. I know my life depended on it.
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