Change Intervals

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Why don't you have time to find out for sure?

Heck, change the oil, filter and bypass filter every weekend--buy your supplies from me!!

Seriously, I'd guess you might want to change the full flow and bypass elements every 5,000 to start with. Use oil analysis, and you'll probably get very comfortable with 10K samples, and don't change the oil until the lab tells you it is time to do so.
 
1. I would change 12,500 miles for full low filter (this one not sure, hope ralph can answer)
2. 3000 miles TP change Interval
3. 25,000 miles full oil change interval

quote:

Originally posted by tstewart:
1. Full Flow Filter Change Interval?
2. Bypass Filter Change Interval?
3. Oil Change interval?

 
I just completed installation of a Motor Guard (supplied by Ralph) on my 2001 6 cylinder Jimmy SUV. I have had no problems with operation of the filter. I drive the vehicle approximately 50 miles per day mostly on the expressway. I use M1 5W30 motor oil and a WIX full flow filter. I want to determine change intervals for the oil and filters. I do not have time to get oil analysis but want to get your opinions on replacement intervals

1. Full Flow Filter Change Interval?
2. Bypass Filter Change Interval?
3. Oil Change interval?

Thanks for the help. I look forward to hearing your responses.
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To eliminate routine oil drains and to keep the engine in new condition as long as possible requires that the oil is never allowed to get dirty and enough new oil is added. Motor Guard has always recommended that their filters be changed every 2,000 miles. This is over kill for most cars but it is always best to err on the safe side. If all engines were the same and all driving conditions were the same it would make it a lot easier for me. As a rule of thumb if the oil looks like new and the viscosity feels like it did when it was new you are changing the filter often enough. The full flow filter doesnt count. It is just a strainer. There is virtually nothing in the oil large enough to be filtered out by the full flow filter unless you are putting a lot of stress on the engine such as off roading or racing. When Motor Guard and Frantz made their recommendations years ago engines were a lot dirtier than they are now. I was looking at some old testimonial letters from the Marion County, Oregon Sheriffs Department that use the Frantz oil filters on their patrol cars They change the full flow filters every year and the Frantz filters every 2,000 to 3,000 miles. That sounds about right for a high performance 8 cylinder. They also do a lot of idling. That had been working for them for 20 years when the letter was written. 2,000 miles will cover about any condition. They dont drain oil on the patrol cars.
I would think that a 6 cylinder would do fine at 3,000 mile filter change intervals for the bypass and the full flow filter changed about every 15,000 mi. With no oil drains unless you get a leaky head gasket. Fuel contamination is rare these days.
If the oil starts looking like dark honey instead of lite honey I know its time to change the filter. I drive my Camry about 40 miles a day 6 days a week. About every 4,000 miles filter change interval. It has no full flow filter. Some of the old timers never changed the full flow filter because the bypass filter keeps it clean by removing the contamination before it can bunch up into larger globs that the full flow filter or change it every couple of years.
There are some reusable full flow filters that you could just install and forget except to check them for leaks and check them for tightness. They can loosen up when they are on there a long time.
If I was going to do a full oil change like Fasty says I probably would not change the filters until the 25,000 miles. Then I would change the filters and the oil. I would keep an eye on the dipstick I might change the TP half way thru.
I was reading a 1937 Studebaker book that said not to drain the oil but change the bypass filter when the oil looks dirty on the dipstick. That will work except it is always better to change the filter before the oil gets dirty. The 1937 Studebaker had a lot better filter than the stuff they put on the new cars. I think they were optional equipment in those days. They were optional equipment on my 1938 Chevy. Frantz got their start by converting the old bypass filters to submicronic. Slide a roll of tp into a steel container and it fit the old housing. When they quit making good elements for the old housing it didnt matter if you had a Frantz conversion.

Ralph
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Ralph,
You mentioned that your Camry does not have a FF Filter. How did you remove it? I would be interested in removing my FF Filter since it really does not do anything anyway since installing the bypass. I would like to have the extra oil pressure that can be gained by removing the FF.
 
quote:

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
As a rule of thumb if the oil looks like new and the viscosity feels like it did when it was new you are changing the filter often enough.
Ralph
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Ralf can you please explain to me how you can feel viscosity? Do you have some techninque or is it just experience? Can this be taught, it should would save me $20 per year on oil anlaysis.

Also if you use your fingers to "feel" the viscosity how do you do it with oil at 212 degrees? I know when I get just a little hot oil on my skin it burns like crazy. I can imagine dunking my fingers in hot oil and rubbing them together to "feel the viscosity"

Hmmm
 
quote:

Originally posted by tstewart:
I just completed installation of a Motor Guard (supplied by Ralph) on my 2001 6 cylinder Jimmy SUV. I have had no problems with operation of the filter. I drive the vehicle approximately 50 miles per day mostly on the expressway. I use M1 5W30 motor oil and a WIX full flow filter. I want to determine change intervals for the oil and filters. I do not have time to get oil analysis but want to get your opinions on replacement intervals

1. Full Flow Filter Change Interval?
2. Bypass Filter Change Interval?
3. Oil Change interval?

Thanks for the help. I look forward to hearing your responses.
smile.gif


My opinion on this, as it's not my filter and I don't have any experience with it would be to Change the oil and filter at least once a year if you are not doing oil analysis.

From what you explain it sounds like you drive about 15,000 miles per year. If that is the case you can change both filters at 6 months. Since you don't have "time" to do oil analysis I would guess you don't have "time" to dink with the TP every 2000 miles.

Just change both filters at 6 months. Top off and change the oil and both filters once a year.

That is of coarse if you learn the "feel" method of viscosity.
 
quote:

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
The full flow filter doesnt count. It is just a strainer. There is virtually nothing in the oil large enough to be filtered out by the full flow filter unless you are putting a lot of stress on the engine such as off roading or racing.
Ralph
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So why doesn't the full flow filter count? It's your last line of defense for any particles that get in your oil to stop a catistophic failure.

I would think that the FF filter is pretty important. Especially if it gets clogged with toilet paper, then starts running is bypass mode.

I would say ignoring your FF filter is bad mojo, but hey that's just me
 
Although the FF filter is a "strainer", it's still a necessary strainer IMHO. My preference would be to find a stainless mesh type (reusable) that are available for motorcycles, but I haven't been able to find one yet.

As for the rest of this thread... well, I have better things to do.
 
quote:

Originally posted by tstewart:
Ralph,
You mentioned that your Camry does not have a FF Filter. How did you remove it? I would be interested in removing my FF Filter since it really does not do anything anyway since installing the bypass. I would like to have the extra oil pressure that can be gained by removing the FF.


Tstewart
The way I did on the Camry was I used a remote filter mount adapter that I got from www.jegs.com. It is a 771-195 universal. My Camry four has an undersized filter mount and I needed to cut down the Chevy adapter plate to fit the mount. I drilled thru the adapter so that I had a hole thru the wall between the in and out ports so that the oil could get to the engine parts. If I drill the hole too small the engine wont get enough oil. Drill it too large and the resistance thru the adapter wont be enough to beat up the Motor Guard. The hole I made in the outside has to be drilled and tapped and a 1/8" pipe plug installed. I dont remember what size hole I used but it was a little bigger than 1/4". I used the adapter for both hoses. It is best to have an oil pressure gauge when doing this. If your oil pressure is what it was before and your Motor Guard heats up you did it right. It is best to start with 1/4" and work your way up. It is probably better to test the adapter with both ports plugged. Frantz and Motor Guard both had adapters that eliminated the full flow filter. Frantz had a lot more choices. The problem is making an adapter that will have the right size orifice size for several flow rates. It is better to do your own for your car. Drill one for a big V8 and it might not work for a little engine. You need a filter that can take the full oil pressure without leaking also. One of the guys did one for a Toyota mini van and told me it worked good. You can also drill a large hole thru to eliminate all resistance and plug one port and run a line from the other port and return the oil in the conventional way. This would be the same as the old Frantz and Motor Guard adapters.
I put a Frantz oil cleaner and a Frantz adapter on a tow rig for Davis Ingram racing in San Jose in 1966. They used Standard Delo 100 20 wt in the Chevy 292 engine. They couldnt wear out the engine. I used a self tapping hollow bolt to return the oil to the oil pan. The other filters that I sold Joe Davis were Motor Guards. I put one on a Plymouth Fury. The rest he did himself. A Perma-Cool sandwich adapter would have been so nice in those days. The dragster was different, It didnt need a bypass filter. It needed a lot of full flow filtration.

Ralph
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[ April 20, 2004, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]
 
Ralf can you please explain to me how you can feel viscosity? Do you have some techninque or is it just experience? Can this be taught, it should would save me $20 per year on oil anlaysis.Also if you use your fingers to "feel" the viscosity how do you do it with oil at 212 degrees? I know when I get just a little hot oil on my skin it burns like crazy. I can imagine dunking my fingers in hot oil and rubbing them together to "feel the viscosity"[/QB][/QUOTE]

Hi msparks,
I think it is a matter of trusting the people that make the oil. It isnt a skill. If the oil feels about the same when it is cold as it did when it was new I dont worry. When the oil is hot and it clings to the dipstick like new oil I dont worry.
There is the old palm test where you rub a little in the palm and see if it has enough soot to fill up the crevices of the skin. If it leaves a clean oily film there isnt too much soot in the oil. You can rub a little on a chrome bumper. You can put a little on a few layers ot TP and hold it up to the sun. I went 30 years without sending a sample of oil to a lab. I think it is a waste of money unless you have a million dollar engine; or are just curious. Milky oil means water such as with a leaky head gasket.Some are experts at reading a dirty element. I am not too good at it but I am good enough.

Ralph
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MS

Try this as a quick and dirty viscosity test.

On an inclined piece of clean glass place a drop of virgin oil and the subject oil. Then compare the rate of run.

Not up to SAE standards but a rough comparison.
 
quote:

Originally posted by RalphPWood:
I went 30 years without sending a sample of oil to a lab. I think it is a waste of money unless you have a million dollar engine; or are just curious. Ralph
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Ralf, $20 a year if hardly an expense to know for sure if the oil is up to par. With the analysis you will get the water/fuel/glycol/wear metals/and additives. Even if the engine is only a few hundred dollars I would run the analysis at least once a year(or so) just to be sure.

Right now I'm on my 3rd year without a change, the oil is a dark carmel but not black in anyway. I've only changed my element 1 time(last year) and have changed full flow filters around 8-12 months. Additive levels, viscosity, is all in check. I try not to make it too complicated, as it's hard to sell to a customer that is not too bright(though I think that are bright if they are using by-pass filteration
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quote:

Originally posted by Neil Womack:
MS

Try this as a quick and dirty viscosity test.

On an inclined piece of clean glass place a drop of virgin oil and the subject oil. Then compare the rate of run.

Not up to SAE standards but a rough comparison.


Viscostiy is measured at 100C(212 degrees) there is no direct comparison between room temperature oil and the viscosity at running temp. Sorry I don't buy this.

Hence the reason you have 0w30/5w30/10w30. They all should have a differenct viscosity at 40C, but at 100C they should be within a few centistokes of each other. Also an oil at has 1000 miles on it(I don't care which brand synthetic or not) will have a different viscosity at 40C than when new. But the additives and VII's should help keep it in check at 100C.(at least within 1 viscosity grade above or below the new grade.) Hence it's very common for a 5w30 to be either a xw20 or xw40 after a few thousand miles. Once it's out of grade to far(like almost 2 grades) then you will want to dump that oil and start over.

I just wouldn't sound too professional going to a fleet of trucks or and Industrial customers with my glass sheet checking their viscosity, or rubbing their oil in my hand or any other method other than trend oil analysis. I'm trying to run my business like a true professional.
 
There are all kinds of choices. Oil analysis is to tell you if something is wrong with your engine. We know the oil is good and the filter is able to keep the oil clean. If I hear a strange noise in the engine and see large abrasives in the filter I dont need to send a sample of oil to the lab to know that I have a problem. Some aircraft mechanics have a can opener that they can open a filter with. If they dont find a lot of large particles the know the engine isnt about to come apart. Or at least they know as much as a lab report could tell them. I have a "Dune Buggies and Hot VW" report on the Motor Guard. They sent a few samples to a lab and determined that the Motor Guard cleaned the oil better than before. I could have told them that and saved them some money. Knock on wood Ive never had a bad engine. If I did I would know it pretty fast.
A customer left a sample for me to have analyzed. It was very black but I knew it was clean and in good shape. I sent it to Pennzoil Quakerstate and guess what they said? It was clean. The wear rate was very low. What does that mean? It means he is using a good oil and keeping it clean. He had just gotten back from Alaska and didnt expect the oil to be clean.
It is a 8.3 Cummins in a large motor home. Delo 400 15-40 with a Gulf Coast 0-1. He said what do you have for my 454 marine gas engine? I said Motor Guard M-30. He uses Shell Rotella 5-40 synthetic in it. I learned a long time ago not to tell someone what oil to use but I can tell them how to keep it clean. He is hooked and has a lot of equipment. He has the lab address and can do his own thing. I have a problem with people telling customers that oil analysis is necessary with extended oil drains. I guess you could say that rubbing oil in the palm of your hand is a form of oil analysis.

Ralph
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