Castrol Syntec/0W30, 4113 miles, 2003 G-35 Sedan

Status
Not open for further replies.
INDYMAC

INDYMAC

Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Messages
2,335
Location
Magnolia, TX
This sample was taken at 65,003 miles with a 4113 mile OCI. It was analyzed concurrently with Dyson Analysis Premium Service and Blackstone Labs. Prior to this sample, PP 5W30 (New formula)was run for about 1000 miles. I only ran it for a short time because the dealership had put a can of BG 44K in the fuel tank during the 60K mile servicing. I wanted to eliminate fuel additives as a source of high lead wear and also wanted to try GC Gold in this vehicle.
Previous UOA's were done by B/S at 59,900 miles (5K OCI) with PP 5W30 (EOP formula), and at 37,250 miles (2.8K OCI) with ML syn 5W30 SL.
There was no make-up oil.
The OEM air filter and air box were filthy (this was supposed to be taken care of on the 60K service, but wasn't).
The oil filter was Pure One.
Chevron Supreme gas used mostly.
There were no fuel or engine additives during this recent OCI. Techron fuel system concentrate had been used in the past.
My wife drives mostly 4-5 mile trips to town in this vehicle. It doesn't see much steady highway/freeway driving.

A= Dyson Analysis @ 65K w/4K OCI
B= B/S Labs @ 65K w/4K OCI
C= B/S Labs @ 60K w/5K OCI
D= B/S Labs @ 37K w/3K OCI
UA= Universal Average for engine/oil (VQ35DE)

Element/A/B/C/D/UA
Aluminum/2/2/2/2/3
Chromium/1/1/0/2/1
Iron/9/8/8/7/11
Copper/12/7/5/6/6
Lead/21/14/40/7/5
Tin/0/1/2/2/1
Molybdenum/9/10/48/203/74
Nickel/1/0/0/0/0
Manganese/NA/0/0/0/1
Silver/0/0/0/0/0
Titanium/0/0/0/0/0
Potassium/0/0/2/1/1
Boron/9/7/3/5/58
Silicon/17/15/12/13/11
Sodium/22/10/7/4/7
Calcium/1634/2076/2406/3182/2290
Magnesium/381/435/19/23/109
Phosphorus/885/786/674/836/693
Zinc/1032/984/714/972/823
Barium/0/0/0/0/0
Antimony/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
Vanadium/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
TAN/2.60/NA/NA/NA/NA
Flashpoint/320/410/390/370/>385
Oxidation/14/NA/NA/NA/NA
Nitration/12/NA/NA/NA/NA
Water/521ppm/0.0/0.0/0.0/ TBN/2.1/NA/2.5/6.6/>1.0
Fuel/1.29%/ Insolubles/0.0/0.2/0.3/0.2/ Glycol/Coolant/0.83/0.0/0.0/0.0/0
Viscosity index/168/NA/NA/NA/NA
Sulfate Byproducts/21/NA/NA/NA/NA
Viscosity (SUS @ 210F)/NA/65.4/60.3/60.3/58-65
Viscosity (cSt @ 40C)/72.3/NA/NA/NA/SAE 20W
Viscosity (cSt @ 100C)/12.2/NA/NA/NA/SAE 30W

I know I have issues with this vehicle. I'm glad I used Terry's service this time to get a game plan to correct some of these trends. I wish I had tried him earlier while the car was under Infinity warranty. Since this UOA, I have replaced the air filter and cleaned the air box, replaced the spark plugs (and valve cover due to a leaking O-ring seal), changed the PCV valve, and use Shell V-Power gas. I'm still using GC Gold and Pure One oil filter. I will consider RLI 10W30 HD BioSyn if the next UOA doesn't show any improvement in the fuel dilution problem.
 
Terry will steer you correctly. I'm starting to respect his numbers a bit better (higher, too). Severe differences in Pb, fuel, flash, etc..... so the car has recorded no codes?
 
Severe differences indeed. The copper and lead are pretty high with Dyson and the fuel dilution is a non-issue with BL, while Dyson caught it. I'm surprised at the differences for such critical areas of the UOA. I have a 2003 Z, and have collected about 60 or so UOA's from the VQ35. Yours has the highest lead and copper wear I've seen. There are built blocks doing track days with an aftermarket TT system that don't report numbers that high. I'd be curious to see the condition of your bearings. Does Terry think fuel dilution is the main culprit?

Will
 
Reminds me of mine:
http://home.nc.rr.com/acbradley/PG2.jpg

Low lead levels at the 30k mark then a spike to 40 at 65k. Looks like fuel may be my problem as well, but I need to do a Dyson analysis on my next oil change to be sure.

I'm doing the same things as you for this next oil change:
New spark plugs
New air filter (though mine was brand new on the last oil analysis)
New valve cover (aren't those early 3.5L V6s a gem
smile.gif
)
New PCV valve

GC 0W30 Gold and Purolater PremiumPlus Oil Filter. I already use Shell Premium exclusively.
 
Some answers to questions so far:
No codes were thrown (so far).
As far as what Terry thinks, I won't comment too much out of respect for his business. He has stated on other threads that fuel dilution will obliterate the oil's ability to lubricate properly, so this obviously needs to be corrected. What is causing the unusual wear is most likely the high silicon though. Short of changing the filter and cleaning the air box, I'm not sure I can do much more. The design of the air induction system is obviously to maximize performance over efficiency of filtration.
 
Pablo, good observation, your chemistry background is kicking in.

Pentane or Toulene insolubles are not measured directly (Method ASTM D 893) with our premium package( can do it for additional cost). What I am using that works quite nicely is a combination of FTIR tests(fuels-aromatics,oxidation,nitration,sulfation,fuel soot) to compare to. So the value you see in data line A is fuel soots, that spectra does cross over to solids measure in IR absorbance values.

Indy got screwed by his dealer for services NOT rendered that allowed a gross ingestion of dirt and restricted air flow , allowing increased fuel dilute and deposits that were super heated on MAF screen. We are following up to see necessary corrections were made.

For you folks that follow our work, understand if you are using a oiled air filter or a leaking filter that dirt,lubricant, or liquid can migrate to the heated MAF screens and once it hits 600-800 F will become a nice laquer or varnish forever riching the system. Why MANY on this board and those I see in analysis have consistent fuel issues with what should he a perfect burner.

Terry
 
Quote:

Pentane or Toulene insolubles are not measured directly (Method ASTM D 893) with our premium package( can do it for additional cost). What I am using that works quite nicely is a combination of FTIR tests(fuels-aromatics,oxidation,nitration,sulfation,fuel soot) to compare to. So the value you see in data line A is fuel soots, that spectra does cross over to solids measure in IR absorbance values.

Click to expand...


Aha....very interesting. THAT says a lot. I would really love to run a controlled study on a series of oils to see the straight and ringed chain insolubles build with time/miles. (In a case with near perfect filtration)

Anyway - glad you are helping Indymac get back on track. Not something so easily fixed by flip flopping oils.
 
Sorry about categorizing soot as an insoluble Terry. They are clearly two different things as measured by your lab. I read terminal into your MAF screen comment. I guess they are irreplaceable, like a MAF sensor?
 
Just to add to the discussion, after removing my 5k mile Wix air filter I ran a white cloth across the screen/lip of the air tube from inside the airbox on my Maxima. I came up with black. So, at some point I had a bad air filter in place.
 
Quote:

...For you folks that follow our work, understand if you are using a oiled air filter or a leaking filter that dirt,lubricant, or liquid can migrate to the heated MAF screens and once it hits 600-800 F will become a nice laquer or varnish forever riching the system. Why MANY on this board and those I see in analysis have consistent fuel issues with what should he a perfect burner.

Terry

Click to expand...


I've wondered about that. nissan uses the oily paper design for most (all?) of its air filters. and I've always suspected my 99 maxima to be burning rich (carbon coated piston tops). but my oil reports always show low fuel, whereas my oil blotters have dark centers (presumably carbonaceous blowby). I may just clean my MAF. or replace it.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
This sample was taken at 65,003 miles with a 4113 mile OCI. It was analyzed concurrently with Dyson Analysis Premium Service and Blackstone Labs. Prior to this sample, PP 5W30 (New formula)was run for about 1000 miles. I only ran it for a short time because the dealership had put a can of BG 44K in the fuel tank during the 60K mile servicing. I wanted to eliminate fuel additives as a source of high lead wear and also wanted to try GC Gold in this vehicle.
Previous UOA's were done by B/S at 59,900 miles (5K OCI) with PP 5W30 (EOP formula), and at 37,250 miles (2.8K OCI) with ML syn 5W30 SL.
There was no make-up oil.
The OEM air filter and air box were filthy (this was supposed to be taken care of on the 60K service, but wasn't).
The oil filter was Pure One.
Chevron Supreme gas used mostly.
There were no fuel or engine additives during this recent OCI. Techron fuel system concentrate had been used in the past.
My wife drives mostly 4-5 mile trips to town in this vehicle. It doesn't see much steady highway/freeway driving.

A= Dyson Analysis @ 65K w/4K OCI
B= B/S Labs @ 65K w/4K OCI
C= B/S Labs @ 60K w/5K OCI
D= B/S Labs @ 37K w/3K OCI
UA= Universal Average for engine/oil (VQ35DE)

Element/A/B/C/D/UA
Aluminum/2/2/2/2/3
Chromium/1/1/0/2/1
Iron/9/8/8/7/11
Copper/12/7/5/6/6
Lead/21/14/40/7/5
Tin/0/1/2/2/1
Molybdenum/9/10/48/203/74
Nickel/1/0/0/0/0
Manganese/NA/0/0/0/1
Silver/0/0/0/0/0
Titanium/0/0/0/0/0
Potassium/0/0/2/1/1
Boron/9/7/3/5/58
Silicon/17/15/12/13/11
Sodium/22/10/7/4/7
Calcium/1634/2076/2406/3182/2290
Magnesium/381/435/19/23/109
Phosphorus/885/786/674/836/693
Zinc/1032/984/714/972/823
Barium/0/0/0/0/0
Antimony/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
Vanadium/0/NA/NA/NA/NA
TAN/2.60/NA/NA/NA/NA
Flashpoint/320/410/390/370/>385
Oxidation/14/NA/NA/NA/NA
Nitration/12/NA/NA/NA/NA
Water/521ppm/0.0/0.0/0.0/ TBN/2.1/NA/2.5/6.6/>1.0
Fuel/1.29%/ Insolubles/0.0/0.2/0.3/0.2/ Glycol/Coolant/0.83/0.0/0.0/0.0/0
Viscosity index/168/NA/NA/NA/NA
Sulfate Byproducts/21/NA/NA/NA/NA
Viscosity (SUS @ 210F)/NA/65.4/60.3/60.3/58-65
Viscosity (cSt @ 40C)/72.3/NA/NA/NA/SAE 20W
Viscosity (cSt @ 100C)/12.2/NA/NA/NA/SAE 30W

I know I have issues with this vehicle. I'm glad I used Terry's service this time to get a game plan to correct some of these trends. I wish I had tried him earlier while the car was under Infinity warranty. Since this UOA, I have replaced the air filter and cleaned the air box, replaced the spark plugs (and valve cover due to a leaking O-ring seal), changed the PCV valve, and use Shell V-Power gas. I'm still using GC Gold and Pure One oil filter. I will consider RLI 10W30 HD BioSyn if the next UOA doesn't show any improvement in the fuel dilution problem.



Here is my latest UOA.
Castrol Syntec 0W30 (GC gold) with no make up oil or additives.
OEM oil filter.
Microgard (Purolator) air filter (changed at the beginning of this OCI).
Total mileage 73,254.
OCI mileage 4190 (4.5 months).
Fuel used was Shell V-Power (93)
Fuel additive was MMO.
Sample date 4/10/08

I will call this sample A, and compare it to sample B (previous GC UOA shown above as sample A with 4113 miles).

Element/A/B

Iron/9/9
Copper/3/12
Tin/0/0
Lead/15/21
Chromium/1/1
Nickel/1/1
Aluminum/3/2
Titanium/0/0
Silver/0/0
Calcium/1498/1634
Magnesium/457/381
Zinc/1090/1032
Phosphorus/1083/885
Barium/0/0
Molybdenum/1/9
Antimony/6/0
Silicon/23/17
Sodium/12/22
Boron/1/9
Potassium/0/0
Vanadium/0/0

V40C/71.4/72.3
V100C/11.6/12.2
TAN/4.42/2.60
Flash/285/320
Oxidation/13/14
Nitration/12/12
KF/399/521
TBN/5.2/2.1
Fuel/1.60/1.29
Soot/0/0
Glycol/0.31/0.83
V-index/159/168
Sulfate Byproduct/20/21

Terry and I are communicting on where to go with this poor fuel burner. I'm getting ready to write it off as a terminal 3-4K OCI vehicle due to my wife's driving habits (3-4 mile daily drive to town at 20-35 MPH for lunch and errands). She works out of our house. Since we live 30 miles from the nearest expressway, it rarely sees the kind of engine speeds it needs to evaporate fuel in the oil.

I don't know where the traces of glycol are coming from. The coolant was flushed 13K miles ago, and the reservoir level has not dropped at all.

I don't know where the antimony came from.

I think the increase in P came from MMO in the fuel. I think I'll stop using MMO if Terry says to.

The high silicon might be due to a valve cover I had replaced after sample B. There was a leaking O-ring in one of the spark plug tubes. Do they use silicon sealant when they replace a valve cover?

The new fill is Valvoline Premium 10W30 dino with a bottle of Auto-Rx. I put an oversized (not by much) PureOne PL14610 oil filter on too. I don't know what to expect, but hope to be pleasantly surprised after cleaning up the engine.
 
INDYMAC,

Just read your latest results (April 08). I don't think this is a "short trip" problem. My car sees regular highway travel (30 miles round trip to my office). This particular OCI included an 800 mile round trip from NC to Pa and back.
 
Nothing wrong with 3-4k oci's. The important thing is that you change the oil before it's shot. You are doing that.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about a gauze pre-filter? I'd try some 2-cycle oil as well.


Do you use this as a suppository? How does it work? Any noise?
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about a gauze pre-filter? I'd try some 2-cycle oil as well.


Do you use this as a suppository? How does it work? Any noise?


*****
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
2017 Ford F53 6.8 V-10 Kendall GT-1 5W-30 4805 miles
Replies
11
Views
1K
fantastic
A
2018 F-150 5.0 V8 Kendall GT-1 Semi Syn 5W-30 3639 miles
Replies
6
Views
862
Torrid
A
2012 Ford 3.0 V6 Kendall GT-1 5W-20 7060 Miles
Replies
2
Views
1K
FZ1
D
2012 Mazda5 (2.5L), Liqui Moly Special Tec AA 0W-20, 5134 mi
Replies
8
Views
1K
vpr5703
wwillson
Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 33,300 miles on oil - 173,000 miles total
2 3
Replies
41
Views
3K
dnewton3
Back
Top