Capri and Icon beat Snap on

[JeffKeryk]

I have been a mechanic 54 years in Sept, I had a wife and 2 kids to take care of so going into debt on tool trucks was not an option.
I have mostly good experience with Taiwan made tools.

Probably the best, real world tool advice I've ever heard. Likewise there are things I could buy, and even lust after, but then my responsibilities (by choice) would suffer. And that's unacceptable.

Oh yeah, and I hate debt. Being homeless will do the to you...

 

[Auto tech]

Not to take it off topic but I’ve had really good luck with the Astro Pneumatic swivel impact sockets. I’ve only broken one and it was an easy warranty. Pretty sure they are made in Taiwan. For something like that I can’t justify spending Snap-on money on as a professional mechanic. But I’ll say I haven’t done it nearly as long as most people here. My 6 year anniversary of pro wrenching was yesterday actually. I’m 23 and hoping to have a girlfriend and kids very soon lol.

Astro makes good stuff. I have several astro tools and it is all top shelf

 

[Trav]

Probably the best, real world tool advice I've ever heard. Likewise there are things I could buy, and even lust after, but then my responsibilities (by choice) would suffer. And that's unacceptable.

Oh yeah, and I hate debt. Being homeless will do the to you...

Thank the good Lord I have never been homeless. I managed do do okay for myself with good jobs and investing in real estate. My wife always wanted a red XKE roadster with the covered headlights, she never got one so she got a red Boxster.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Thank the good Lord I have never been homeless. I managed do do okay for myself with good jobs and investing in real estate. My wife always wanted a red XKE roadster with the covered headlights, she never got one so she got a red Boxster.

Our weaknesses can become our strengths. I never wanna be homeless again, so I am willing.
While CA education (got my 1st degree at 40) and Silicon Valley opportunity have been very good to me, I don't need much because I used to have nothing. If I die sober I win.

And of course I am less judgemental because I used to be there myself. I ain't no better.

Real estate investing always made sense to me... After all, people gotta have a place to live. Well done!
Love Boxsters, by the way... And Bathtubs

 

[Hohn]

Snap on is nothing more than marketing. People will always pay a higher price thinking it must mean quality.

This is just flat out wrong because it goes way too far. Snap-on might be over-rated and/or overpriced, but to say that snap-on is NOTHING but marketing as if the tools themselves are just complete junk is simply and grossly incorrect.

 

[D60]

The bottom line is still that as a tech if you always buy SnapOn you will VERY RARELY be disappointed and generally you're getting the best on the market, both in design and metallurgy.

I'm speaking in aggregate, similar to how people do -- or used to -- just shop NAPA for parts because in general you could trust the overall quality was better, and the odds of failure were reduced. (I don't recommend this w NAPA anymore, but YMMV)

It's important to note I'm NOT saying SnapOn is always THE BEST, merely that on average their stuff works well and is durable -- things that are important for a busy shop.

Watching shootouts and competitions is fun IF YOU HAVE THE TIME, but a lot of guys don't care to have a SnapOn this, Astro that and Icon other thing. It's not even brand loyalty so much as just trusting that what you're getting is good without hours of research. Indeed, some enjoy the research and that's great.

Furthermore it's easy to poke holes in most of the tests. Controlled conditions in a test machine don't always translate to real world use, and don't at all account for intangibles like the FEEL IN YOUR HAND(S).

But yes, SnapOn is incredibly expensive and with some careful choices you can get tools that are as good -- or even better -- for a fraction of the cost. I encourage that! But SnapOn is more than marketing.

 

[Hohn]

Snap on better up their game if they want to keep selling their tools as if they were made from precious metals. In reality they are loosing ground to Taiwan made tools. Now Capri and Icon both proved to be better at almost a third the price. TTC did not give points for the best warranty.

Meh, the tools were "better" only by some of the measures of this particular test.

Pros will place a premium on the small heads and low backdrag more than the brute force strength. Because pros don't abuse tools, they rarely break them and don't need the strongest possible tool to offset the foolishness of the user.

There's a trend lately to dumb down tool testing into brute strength. A dumbing down is exactly what it is.

A 17mm bolt head is (as tested in the video) commonly used on M12 fasteners on Japanese-brand cars (Honda, Toyota). The torque spec for an M12 varies from 39 to 125Nm for a class 10.9 (roughly the same as Grade 8).

Which means the "100% of ASME" reference of 267Nm for a 17mm is OVER DOUBLE the torque of a common high-grade M12 fastener.


The Snap On wrench tested in the video is only 277mm total length. Where you put your hand, you have about 250mm length. Which means to even approach the "100% of ASME" point in the video, you'd have to be pulling or pushing with 963N of force. Or about TWO HUNDRED SIXTEEN POUNDS. Now, you might have much stronger, tougher hands that I do, but I assure you there's no way on earth I'm going to be applying over 200# to the end of a Snap-on wrench. Very few (i.e. zero) humans are capable of applying enough force to the wrench to approach its limits.

Which means that only way you can even get close to breaking a tool at the 100% ASME point is by using a special test machine (as they do here with "pushy") or by using a cheater pipe and of course that is abusing the tool.


Since literally every wrench in their test is absolutely sufficiently strong for use *by hand*, then strength is not a useful discriminator among the tools. What is? Size and smoothness. Which is where the Snap-on excels.


I personally own a single snap-on tool (inherited) and will never buy them. They are way too expensive when so many also-excellent options exist.

But let's not make the "Test" findings into something they aren't. The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength.


I've wrenched hundreds and hundred (perhaps thousands) of hours over 35+ years of wrenching. Just because I don't buy snap-on doesn't mean I can't see why so many pros love them. They are excellent, truly professional tools.

 

[D60]

Another epidemic I personally believe I've witnessed with today's information age and video shootouts is the "THAT'S SO YESTERDAY" mentality.

Today TTC claims an impact or ratchet is the best and guys trample each other to buy it. Next year a new test shows a new champion and last year's SUPER MEGA AWESOME KICK A** tool is so yesterday. Total junk, that one from last year.

It's absurd -- I'll keep my tools that I already own and still work great for me rather than keeping up with the Joneses. I know, I'm lame. Bummer.

 

[Trav]

Pros will place a premium on the small heads and low backdrag more than the brute force strength. Because pros don't abuse tools, they rarely break them and don't need the strongest possible tool to offset the foolishness of the user.

You have not worked with many working mechanics or you would not make that sort of statement. "pros" abuse the tools a lot more than a DIY or joe homeowner ever would, many times I have sacrificed a tool just to hopefully get the job done or ground or bent it to make a special tool.
You will find one of these gadgets in many a mechanics drawer. I do my best to take care of my tools but I am not kind to them either and would not use an extender if there was any other way, if not stuff starts getting abused.

A 17mm bolt head is (as tested in the video) commonly used on M12 fasteners on Japanese-brand cars (Honda, Toyota). The torque spec for an M12 varies from 39 to 125Nm for a class 10.9 (roughly the same as Grade 8).

Which means the "100% of ASME" reference of 267Nm for a 17mm is OVER DOUBLE the torque of a common high-grade M12 fastener.


The Snap On wrench tested in the video is only 277mm total length. Where you put your hand, you have about 250mm length. Which means to even approach the "100% of ASME" point in the video, you'd have to be pulling or pushing with 963N of force. Or about TWO HUNDRED SIXTEEN POUNDS. Now, you might have much stronger, tougher hands that I do, but I assure you there's no way on earth I'm going to be applying over 200# to the end of a Snap-on wrench.

How tight do you figure a M12 bolt is going to be after being in service under a car in the rust belt for 10 years or longer? It is not going to be 125Nm that I can guarantee but it still needs to come out . I never said Snap on are bad tools but some of the crap they put out recently is genuine crap and not worth the price of cheap chinesium. I much prefer Hazet or Stahlwille, old Dowidat, Elora and a few others. Equal quality to Snap on and very much pro level tools at a much lower price point because of Snap on business model not because they are cheaper tools.

But let's not make the "Test" findings into something they aren't. The snap-on tools are excellent and reflectBut let's not make the "Test" findings into something they aren't. The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength. that there's more to performance than brute strength.

They are for entertainment but do prove a point. You don't have to spend upward of $600 to get a tool that works well and made of like quality steel. The "The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength" comment is absolute rubbish and I hope you made that in jest.


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[02SE]

I bought almost all of my Snap On tools 35+ years ago.

Only a couple more payments and they're all mine...

 

[Astro14]

You have not worked with many working mechanics or you would not make that sort of statement. "pros" abuse the tools a lot more than a DIY or joe homeowner ever would, many times I have sacrificed a tool just to hopefully get the job done or ground or bent it to make a special tool.
You will find one of these gadgets in many a mechanics drawer. I do my best to take care of my tools but I am not kind to them either and would not use an extender if there was any other way, if not stuff starts getting abused.

View attachment 287320

How tight do you figure a M12 bolt is going to be after being in service under a car in the rust belt for 10 years or longer? It is not going to be 125Nm that I can guarantee but it still needs to come out . I never said Snap on are bad tools but some of the crap they put out recently is genuine crap and not worth the price of cheap chinesium. I much prefer Hazet or Stahlwille, old Dowidat, Elora and a few others. Equal quality to Snap on and very much pro level tools at a much lower price point because of Snap on business model not because they are cheaper tools.


They are for entertainment but do prove a point. You don't have to spend upward of $600 to get a tool that works well and made of like quality steel. The "The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength" comment is absolute rubbish and I hope you made that in jest.


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I have those - and they really, and I mean, really, help in a pinch - when I can’t get a socket and breaker bar on something.

But I use them with a box end, not the open end, of a combination wrench, and I don’t use them on a ratchet, because if I could get a ratchet on the fastener, I would have used one of my 2 foot breaker bars.

I’ve never worried about a Stahlwille, Hazet, or any other decent combination wrench breaking.

But one of those could bust a smaller ratchet pretty easily.

 

[Hohn]

I have those - and they really, and I mean, really, help in a pinch - when I can’t get a socket and breaker bar on something.

But I use them with a box end, not the open end, of a combination wrench, and I don’t use them on a ratchet, because if I could get a ratchet on the fastener, I would have used one of my 2 foot breaker bars.

I’ve never worried about a Stahlwille, Hazet, or any other decent combination wrench breaking.

But one of those could bust a smaller ratchet pretty easily.

Exactly. Wrench extenders are for extending BOX END wrenches. The classic Mueller-Kueps design hasn’t changed any because they got it right the first time. Sorta pricey for what it is though, hence all the knock-offs.

The “middle ground” between a socket and a box end are the excellent Astro Nano sockets. In the 1/2 drive size they have a 22mm hex so you can use a long patter 22mm wrench to create the shortest socket you’ve ever seen. But unlike a KABO-style wrench, it has no ratcheting mechanism and is super strong. A 22mm hex in tool steel will take a LOT of torque.

Of course, Astro does offer ratcheting drive tools that make this super handy. Ratcheting when you need convience, nonratcheting when you need max strength.

As for combo wrenches breaking, I use WrightGrip 2.0 combos. Breakage is a non-issue. The open ends will twist the head off a grade 8 without slipping and they have essentially obsoleted line wrenches for me. They’re so stinking good.

 

[Auto tech]

You have not worked with many working mechanics or you would not make that sort of statement. "pros" abuse the tools a lot more than a DIY or joe homeowner ever would, many times I have sacrificed a tool just to hopefully get the job done or ground or bent it to make a special tool.
You will find one of these gadgets in many a mechanics drawer. I do my best to take care of my tools but I am not kind to them either and would not use an extender if there was any other way, if not stuff starts getting abused.

View attachment 287320

How tight do you figure a M12 bolt is going to be after being in service under a car in the rust belt for 10 years or longer? It is not going to be 125Nm that I can guarantee but it still needs to come out . I never said Snap on are bad tools but some of the crap they put out recently is genuine crap and not worth the price of cheap chinesium. I much prefer Hazet or Stahlwille, old Dowidat, Elora and a few others. Equal quality to Snap on and very much pro level tools at a much lower price point because of Snap on business model not because they are cheaper tools.


They are for entertainment but do prove a point. You don't have to spend upward of $600 to get a tool that works well and made of like quality steel. The "The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength" comment is absolute rubbish and I hope you made that in jest.


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So true we got wrenches with hammers, drive sockets on a rusty bolt with a hammer, pry with a screwdriver, cheater pipes if needed. Whatever we have to do to get the job done. Tool trucks understand this and warranty the tool anyway.

 

[Trav]

So true we got wrenches with hammers, drive sockets on a rusty bolt with a hammer, pry with a screwdriver, cheater pipes if needed. Whatever we have to do to get the job done. Tool trucks understand this and warranty the tool anyway.

I never try to warranty a tool I knowingly abused, I made the decision to try if even if it meant there was a good chance of ruining the tool. If one legit fails in normal use then sure warranty.

 

[CarlB]

Did we watch the same video?

The Snap-on is clearly the nicest wrench, and made in the USA. It bad the best form factor and lowest back drag. It exceeded the standard and failed due to abuse.

Agree, the snap-on and williams were the stars to me. I've owned the flex-head version of the gear wrench for over a decade, but wish I had something low backdrag like the Williams.

Taking tools to the point of failure is only one piece of the puzzle. I don't need to destroy my ratcheting wrenches.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Using a tool beyond its intended use and capabilities is a choice; it does not make the tool bad. It can even be dangerous...
Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Auto tech]

I never try to warranty a tool I knowingly abused, I made the decision to try if even if it meant there was a good chance of ruining the tool. If one legit fails in normal use then sure warranty.

It's all in the relationship with the tool guy. When you spend thousands of dollars on his truck, & pay your bill weekly it's part of the service you are paying for is that no questions asked warranty. I always tell them if I was misusing the tool. They understand and warranty it out. They want you happy so you continue to buy from them instead of the other 3 or 4 trucks

 

[Bullet]

That test is cool I guess, but if you're applying the force as in the first half of the video on the open end why would anyone use an open end over the closed/boxed end? The brute strength of a tool is not the end all for proof of a better tool. At least not to me, but what do I know.? Just the other day I went to drain the front diff and the hex socket was so tight I had to use an expandable ratchet. The hex socket I was using was a craftsman10mm and felt it began to round so I ordered a 10mm hex snap on hex socket. Are there better hex sockets than Snap On? IDK.

Then those videos that test ratchets' breaking point. I don't think the breaking point defines the quality after a certain point. I mean If you're frequently going 200+ lbs of torque perhaps one needs to bust out the 3/4 drives.

This is a17mm SN impact socket. An impact wrench has beat it so bad the metal flowed, but never broke. I think there's something to say about the quality, but the doesn't mean other brands aren't quality tools.

 

[Hohn]

You have not worked with many working mechanics or you would not make that sort of statement. "pros" abuse the tools a lot more than a DIY or joe homeowner ever would, many times I have sacrificed a tool just to hopefully get the job done or ground or bent it to make a special tool.
You will find one of these gadgets in many a mechanics drawer. I do my best to take care of my tools but I am not kind to them either and would not use an extender if there was any other way, if not stuff starts getting abused.

View attachment 287320

How tight do you figure a M12 bolt is going to be after being in service under a car in the rust belt for 10 years or longer? It is not going to be 125Nm that I can guarantee but it still needs to come out . I never said Snap on are bad tools but some of the crap they put out recently is genuine crap and not worth the price of cheap chinesium. I much prefer Hazet or Stahlwille, old Dowidat, Elora and a few others. Equal quality to Snap on and very much pro level tools at a much lower price point because of Snap on business model not because they are cheaper tools.


They are for entertainment but do prove a point. You don't have to spend upward of $600 to get a tool that works well and made of like quality steel. The "The snap-on tools are excellent and reflect the mature understanding of professionals that there's more to performance than brute strength" comment is absolute rubbish and I hope you made that in jest.


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A working mechanic and a real pro are hardly the same thing. Think Eric O if south main auto, not tge youngest kid at the tire shop.

 

[John105]

Snap on is nothing more than marketing. People will always pay a higher price thinking it must mean quality.

One example that illustrates what you say is it would seem the only entity that uses Snap On floor jacks is the USPS. All one ever sees on YouTube is HFT.

Won’t lie I like Snap On hand tools. For shade trees they will last forever and achieve maximum status. I have ratchets from 36 to 80 to 100 tooth and even vintage back to the 50’s. Just jumped on eBay and got a laugh at the prices I saw. People here are of means so of course it will be common to possess Snap On. Is it the best? Is it the best bang for buck? Should a person worry? No to all.