Cancelling a Leased Solar Panel System

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Originally Posted by FirstNissan
I would call the company and ask them politely that you are the new owner and would like to get rid of the system. Most likely they will tell you to go pound sand. Then you spend a few hundred bucks, hire a lawyer to send a letter saying that you never signed a contract for the system. If they don't respond to that, then you file legal paperwork. Even if the out-of-pocket legal cost is two or 3000, that's still cheaper than dealing with this lease for the next whatever few years


Agreed. Seems to me that the 20-year lease was signed by the previous owner...I would stop paying Solar City and let them come repo the panels. This should be between them and the previous owner, unless the contract states the contract passes to future owners...in which case let the legal wrangling begin.
 
Cancel the pending contract on the house. Revise it to a lower offer to reflect / offset the cost of the lease.
Don't assume you will be able to get out of it after purchase.
 
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I wonder if this is similar to the water heater rental thing in Ontario. Basically, when you buy a house where the previous owner rented a water heater and you made even one payment on that water heater, you assumed the contract. But if you never made any payments on that heater, the company had no legal leg to stand on and would have to take the heater back an no cost to you.

Wonder if something similar is going on with the panels. I can't imagine a contract being tied to the property, as property is not an entity and you cannot go into a contract with a property.

So my question is, has Micheal made any lease payments on those panels?



Why would someone rent a water heater?!


Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I wonder if this is similar to the water heater rental thing in Ontario. Basically, when you buy a house where the previous owner rented a water heater and you made even one payment on that water heater, you assumed the contract. But if you never made any payments on that heater, the company had no legal leg to stand on and would have to take the heater back an no cost to you.

Wonder if something similar is going on with the panels. I can't imagine a contract being tied to the property, as property is not an entity and you cannot go into a contract with a property.

So my question is, has Micheal made any lease payments on those panels?



Why would someone rent a water heater?!


Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


Extremely hard water?
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


What a SCAM! These things are like $600-$1000, easy to replace (usually), and should be a one time expense. Hats off to the scam artist that came up with that nonsense!!
 
Originally Posted by bubbatime
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


What a SCAM! These things are like $600-$1000, easy to replace (usually), and should be a one time expense. Hats off to the scam artist that came up with that nonsense!!


They are around $1,200, rental fee is like $25? I inherited a rental when I bought my house. It pooped the bed after 4 years, they came and swapped it out for a new one. Control board on the new one died after 4 years, they came and replaced it. For $300/year, it really isn't an awful deal.

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I wonder if this is similar to the water heater rental thing in Ontario. Basically, when you buy a house where the previous owner rented a water heater and you made even one payment on that water heater, you assumed the contract. But if you never made any payments on that heater, the company had no legal leg to stand on and would have to take the heater back an no cost to you.

Wonder if something similar is going on with the panels. I can't imagine a contract being tied to the property, as property is not an entity and you cannot go into a contract with a property.

So my question is, has Micheal made any lease payments on those panels?



Why would someone rent a water heater?!


Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


Extremely hard water?


This can be the case, yes.
 
Originally Posted by bubbatime
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


What a SCAM!

Same can be said about renting a cable modem, yet a ton of people do it.
 
In this world there is something for everyone. Most "owners" of new BMW's have leased them.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
In this world there is something for everyone. Most "owners" of new BMW's have leased them.
smile.gif



It depends on the lease. Some of the leases can be like a scam like cable modems and this solar panel lease, others are like cars, the manufacturer ends up subsidizing them because they don't want to offer big rebates on purchases which destroys their used value and it makes the traditional buyers mad.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by bubbatime
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Very common in Canada. If it breaks, you get a new one.


What a SCAM!

Same can be said about renting a cable modem, yet a ton of people do it.


There is a word for those people: suckers. I bought my first broadband modem from the provider (it was about the same price, I knew it would work, it had a 2-year warranty), but I'd never rent one.
 
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I wonder if this is similar to the water heater rental thing in Ontario. Basically, when you buy a house where the previous owner rented a water heater and you made even one payment on that water heater, you assumed the contract. But if you never made any payments on that heater, the company had no legal leg to stand on and would have to take the heater back an no cost to you.

Wonder if something similar is going on with the panels. I can't imagine a contract being tied to the property, as property is not an entity and you cannot go into a contract with a property.

So my question is, has Micheal made any lease payments on those panels?



Why would someone rent a water heater?!


Because most Canadian's are too polite to tell the utility company to pound sand. Back in 2011, I terminated my rental water tank, installed a tankless with the help of my buddy and never looked back. Rental fee climbed up to almost $30 a month including taxes. After three years your would have paid for a brand new tank however you won't get a new rental tank every three years. I figured the large utilities are buying thousands of tanks a month so they must be getting huge discounts. They don't pass that savings onto the small guy.

There are stories of other third party companies coming door to door in Ontario and screw-ing over customers to costs from $75-120 a month for rental water heaters or rental furnaces. The over promise monthly savings but it's all a lie. Once you sign up they put a Lien on your house for $16k until the fleece you. There is no way of easily getting out of it. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think the practice may be outlawed now.

FEAR is the great motivator in the great white north aka Canada. When it fails you'll get a new one next day. It's all over the local radio ads.

The other issue in Canada is that you can't go to the parts supply and buy a lot of the replacement parts without a license. Back about 8 years ago, I needed a new ignitor for my furnace. Couldn't get one locally. Had to get my buddy to buy it from the parts place because he had an account with them. It's nonsense.
 
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Put it this way, Elon's company managed to sign up a guy for a $34,000 system. How else would they ever achieve it? The escalating rental cost reminds me of sub-prime mortgages. By the way, the 20 year rental payment plan really isn't all that different from a mortgage.
 
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Call the solar company. I think you are in a tight spot.
Solar companies know people sell houses.
I THINK the lease is tied to the house, not the purchaser.

Leases are for people who cannot bear the purchase cost; it is not nearly as cost beneficial as compared to a purchase.
The cost of solar in CA continues to go down. I paid $17K less the tax credit earlier this year for a 5.x kWh system.
This was excellent at the time; prices are even better now.
I pay about $15 per month to be on the PGE grid. I love my solar.

Good luck Michael; I hope you are not stuck.


He isnt stuck, even IF on the outside chance the lease was tied to the house, much like, lets say a mortgage by the current owner.
The title company would make sure its "paid" at time of closing, just like a loan is paid, it comes from the sellers proceeds.
A home i s always delivered free and clear.

I do agree with all of you on one thing, this thread didnt need to exist. You dont buy a home and get answers on BITOG, one quick phone call to the attorney would have taken 5 minutes.
 
Actually, I appreciate the OP posting this. It gets the discussion going on the economics and realities of solar. Also, my opinion posted earlier is that there is no problem here and the OP should carry on renting the panels. It isn't perfect but the future price escalation of power on the California grid will only continue and he will be back in the black soon enough.
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I'm up now, so here is a quick analysis using your power bill.
If I interpret you numbers correctly over the course of the month you produced 1143.3 kwhrs of power. Your house consumed 818 kwhrs which made the difference, 327 kwhrs available to sell to the power company.

The next step is more complicated. We have no data on which panels are the rental ones plus you have panels facing north, south, east and west. The south facing panels are the most prolific.

I'll simplify it by assuming it all averages out. Your total capacity is 7.8 plus 3.87 for a total of 11.67. Kw. The rental panels are 33% of the present system. If you get rid of the rental panels you'll only produce 743 kwhrs and you'll have to purchase an additional 62 kwhrs every month at an average of 0.30 per kwhr, possibly more. That will cost you $18.60 per month. Plus you'll no longer get the credit for the 327 kwhr that you are currently selling to the power company which is worth 327 x .30 = $98.You'll be out $116 per month. While this is less than $150 per month, your prize is only $34 per month. For this you'll get holes in your roof and a possible decommissioning charge and a smaller house value. I'd keep those panels.
smile.gif


Thanks for the calculations. The only issue is that the sell back is at .04/kw not .30, so the numbers look a lot different.

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I can't imagine a contract being tied to the property, as property is not an entity and you cannot go into a contract with a property.

It's possible the solar system lease is tied to the title of the house, like described in this article, although this is from a different solar company:
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-sunrun-solar-panels/

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=424259155041676


The only way it is tied to the title is by a lien. As the first article you linked says, the new buyers got the estate to buy out the panels and then the solar company removed them. The lien alone will not bind the new buyers to the solar contract, but it will make it impossible for them to sell it later on.

But you have to do all this work upfront. If you bought the house without sorting out the panels first, I have a feeling you also signed a paper assuming the lease. Many simply dont realize it since there are so many things to sign.

Like I said earlier, it doesn't look like the lease take over is some sort of an automatic thing when you buy the house.

In the purchase agreement of the house, one of the conditions was to takeover the lease on the solar panels.

From my review of the contract, the only viable option for cancellation is to buy out the lease at the market rate, but I am waiting to hear back from solar city.

Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Call the solar company. I think you are in a tight spot.
Solar companies know people sell houses.
I THINK the lease is tied to the house, not the purchaser.

Leases are for people who cannot bear the purchase cost; it is not nearly as cost beneficial as compared to a purchase.
The cost of solar in CA continues to go down. I paid $17K less the tax credit earlier this year for a 5.x kWh system.
This was excellent at the time; prices are even better now.
I pay about $15 per month to be on the PGE grid. I love my solar.

Good luck Michael; I hope you are not stuck.


He isnt stuck, even IF on the outside chance the lease was tied to the house, much like, lets say a mortgage by the current owner.
The title company would make sure its "paid" at time of closing, just like a loan is paid, it comes from the sellers proceeds.
A home i s always delivered free and clear.

I do agree with all of you on one thing, this thread didnt need to exist. You dont buy a home and get answers on BITOG, one quick phone call to the attorney would have taken 5 minutes.

As I mentioned in the original post, this wasn't a deal breaker item. Not sure how else to put it, but either outcome is acceptable. I already have an inquiry opened with Tesla/Solar City and once I have more info, we can all discuss further.
 
Originally Posted by The Critic

In the purchase agreement of the house, one of the conditions was to takeover the lease on the solar panels.

From my review of the contract, the only viable option for cancellation is to buy out the lease at the market rate, but I am waiting to hear back from solar city.


There you go, thank you for confirming my suspicion that there is nothing automatic about lease take over on the solar panels.

The other option is to negotiate with the seller to change the purchase agreement. But that is heavily dependent on the local market. If the market is on the upswing and the houses sell fast, you will have almost no negotiating power. But if the opposite is true, you can have a lot of negotiating power available to you.

Also, be careful about the buyback at "market share" terminology. That article Quattro Pete linked, mentions that solar companies include the tax credit they received for the panels, as well as their depreciation in the buyback price. Also, since they will have to pay the tax credit back, they will collect extra money to cover lost revenues, fees etc.
 
First off, nobody would lease you anything unless they put a lien on the house. People leasing them and then selling the house to a different owner may get buyer remorse, and it would be a big loss for the company. Telling him to not resume the lease is unrealistic, as seller would mandate you resume it till the end.

SolarCity won't do anything, because it is on your lien. As long as you value your credit you will not be able to just default on it. The price has dropped, so the old lease is definitely more expensive than today's new panels, lease, PPA, or purchase.

Basically, what Critic can do is to offer a reduced amount and hoping that he will still win the bidding war. You may not like it because you don't use it, but others may value it as is because they too have EV in their fleet. It is a free market and you need to negotiate accordingly.

Personally I'd knock down the offer by a bit (not the whole 34k, maybe offer 10k less), and see how lucky I am. It is the final offer that counts, and as long as someone else offer more than you (regardless of the panel or not), they will win and it is not your problem to worry about.
 
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