Terry - To what extend do these small particles stick to the engine components? Will they behave like Slick 50 such that their coating eventually block the oil passage in the engine? Can you explain the coating properties of these particles in more details?
CAn FP be used every tank
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Pabs,
It's about time it rained. I took the family on a 1000 mile trek north to Bellevue a couple weeks ago to visit with family. I couldn't believe how dry both Oregon and Washington were.
Darren
It's about time it rained. I took the family on a 1000 mile trek north to Bellevue a couple weeks ago to visit with family. I couldn't believe how dry both Oregon and Washington were.
Darren
Terry - By the way, do these particles also coat the emission related componets and cause blockage?
Sifan, if FP or LC for that matter get to the catalyst it cleans the residual trash off the catalyst but does not harm the catalyst at all. The products have been used before the O2 sensors and cats were installed and never had any complaints about that, per Odis. The products have been in continous use since the late 1940's. It was just limited by the marketing the inventor and Odis have been able to accomplish in a very hostile environment.
Caution : LC and FP are NOTHING like slick50 nor do they coat anything. OF course neither did the PTFE in slick 50 in a engine !!!
The particles that I described as being a micro lube are the existing carbon your engine developed, not part of LC. Its just breaking them down and utilizing all availble resources !
This process has not been quantified or confirmed officially by us although our consulting physicsts/chemists recognize something like it is going on.
Caution : LC and FP are NOTHING like slick50 nor do they coat anything. OF course neither did the PTFE in slick 50 in a engine !!!
The particles that I described as being a micro lube are the existing carbon your engine developed, not part of LC. Its just breaking them down and utilizing all availble resources !
This process has not been quantified or confirmed officially by us although our consulting physicsts/chemists recognize something like it is going on.
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Terry ..what magnetude of $$ does such validation testing co$t? That is, given "carte blanche", what would you desire to do with this additive, how much would it cost, and how long would it take to accumulate reasonably quantifiable data for publication (assuming funding wasn't an issue)? I agree with "apparent results" as we see with A-Rx as being reason enough to promote their use ..but at some point one would hope that we could validate impirical data with some methodical (controlled) statistical data.
Gary,SWRI in San Antonio, quoted us $13,000 a day just for HDD diesel fuels testing when Odis was talking to EPA reps here in Texas. Each additional day was $8500, a 1991 DD 60 series test engine. Trust me when you set this stuff up nothing gets done in one day.
That testing screen is only for diesel emissions testing.
Unless you have a rich investment group behind you
you can't even get past the entry to the gate for that kind of testing.
IMHO if any of the larger oil add or oil companies owned this product, or Auto-RX for that matter, they would be in Walmart yesterday with glowing testing from any number of labs or university ( federally funded) studies.
Interesting to me ( and as you point out) is that just the exposure to a relatively anal group here at BITOG and using UOA's it is obvious that LC/FP works quite well.
That testing screen is only for diesel emissions testing.
Unless you have a rich investment group behind you
you can't even get past the entry to the gate for that kind of testing.
IMHO if any of the larger oil add or oil companies owned this product, or Auto-RX for that matter, they would be in Walmart yesterday with glowing testing from any number of labs or university ( federally funded) studies.
Interesting to me ( and as you point out) is that just the exposure to a relatively anal group here at BITOG and using UOA's it is obvious that LC/FP works quite well.
MolaKule
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In our testing the carbon melted by softening and was solved by the LC. The carbon is then put into suspension in the oil.
While this added lubricity from the graphite is a possibility, we just never tested for this effect because it wasn't in the testing plan.
In fact, at the start of the test I was rather skeptical about the carbon solving capabilities until I observed with my own orbs the carbon streaking down the face of a piston without scrubbing brushes or agitation.
In addition to the above, it lubricates and moderates oxidation.
While all the big players are here, let me ask a question.
Does LC work well in all types of IC engines and various types of oil, e.g., HDEO, PCMO, Syns, Syn-Blends? Does it work significantly better in any engine/oil combination?
Does LC work well in all types of IC engines and various types of oil, e.g., HDEO, PCMO, Syns, Syn-Blends? Does it work significantly better in any engine/oil combination?
MolaKule
Staff member
LC works well and is miscible in any oil (as per tests), whether dino or synthetic.
Terry - Since oil does not wear out, the contaminants that wear out oil additives are converted into so called "good" particles by LC, why can't I keep the same oil in my engine forever without any oil changes by simply adding 1 oz of LC to the engine oil every 1k miles of driving (assuming no overfill and no fuel dilution)?
Are all the tiny particle, byproducts of LC, "good" particles? Can there also be some bad particles? Can you list the good and bad particles and their concentrations in the used oil?
It would really bother me if these tiny bad particles accumulating inside my engine can not even be filtered out by the toilet paper in my bypass filter. I intend to have my OCI after 20k miles (with TP change every 2k miles), not 10k miles.
Are all the tiny particle, byproducts of LC, "good" particles? Can there also be some bad particles? Can you list the good and bad particles and their concentrations in the used oil?
It would really bother me if these tiny bad particles accumulating inside my engine can not even be filtered out by the toilet paper in my bypass filter. I intend to have my OCI after 20k miles (with TP change every 2k miles), not 10k miles.
Whoa sifan, I repeat what I posted above:
The particles that I described as being a micro lube are the EXISTING carbon your ENGINE developed, NOT part of LC. Its just breaking them down and utilizing all available resources !
This process has NOT been quantified or confirmed officially by us although our consulting physicsts/chemists recognize something like it is going on. Mola did a good job of describing one of the earliest observations.
Odis Beaver the owner and maker of LC/FP has used LC and FP in engines without changing the oil( FF filters periodically) for 30,000 - 100,000 miles successfully ( according to Odis) before I ever met him or knew about the chemistry.
So to answer part of your question I agree that you could possibly take a motor oil out a long long time using LC to moderate the oil without changing. I wouldn't do it without analyzing the oil periodically to be safe.
As far as the filtration capability of FF and bypass filters most of the harmful contamination will be filtered by your oil filters, the add pack and smaller contamination and carbon in angstroms will be in suspension in the oil and wouldn't be filtered at all.
I must tell you that happens in clean oil too !
Same reason your bypass WON'T normally strip the add package out of the motor oil.
"Can you list the good and bad particles and their concentrations in the used oil?"
Not without a funded testing series, then I would be happy to quantify that.I agree it would certainly be interesting to see this effect quantified.
One thing I do notice about LC and FP is that if you use the stuff the oil remains healthier/cleaner longer and the wear rates are lower in the UOA's we see it used in.
So in conclusion; in your case if you use LC and FP appropriately with the bypass system and a good quality oil I think that you may be able to exceed your drain mileage goals safely and easily. IF it is verified by oil analysis.
Hope that helps you.
Terry
The particles that I described as being a micro lube are the EXISTING carbon your ENGINE developed, NOT part of LC. Its just breaking them down and utilizing all available resources !
This process has NOT been quantified or confirmed officially by us although our consulting physicsts/chemists recognize something like it is going on. Mola did a good job of describing one of the earliest observations.
Odis Beaver the owner and maker of LC/FP has used LC and FP in engines without changing the oil( FF filters periodically) for 30,000 - 100,000 miles successfully ( according to Odis) before I ever met him or knew about the chemistry.
So to answer part of your question I agree that you could possibly take a motor oil out a long long time using LC to moderate the oil without changing. I wouldn't do it without analyzing the oil periodically to be safe.
As far as the filtration capability of FF and bypass filters most of the harmful contamination will be filtered by your oil filters, the add pack and smaller contamination and carbon in angstroms will be in suspension in the oil and wouldn't be filtered at all.
I must tell you that happens in clean oil too !
Same reason your bypass WON'T normally strip the add package out of the motor oil.
"Can you list the good and bad particles and their concentrations in the used oil?"
Not without a funded testing series, then I would be happy to quantify that.I agree it would certainly be interesting to see this effect quantified.
One thing I do notice about LC and FP is that if you use the stuff the oil remains healthier/cleaner longer and the wear rates are lower in the UOA's we see it used in.
So in conclusion; in your case if you use LC and FP appropriately with the bypass system and a good quality oil I think that you may be able to exceed your drain mileage goals safely and easily. IF it is verified by oil analysis.
Hope that helps you.
Terry
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Can you give me your reasoning behind this?quote:
Originally posted by Terry:
I have even used it in Coolant.
See my thread under UOA's for 1999 VW NEW BUG M1 10w-30 w/LC. Daughter drove with no coolant. Changed out coolant to walmart cheapo glycol and needed a miscibility,cleaning, and lubricating agent for the transition from the factory coolant and help saving pump.
Odis has been using LC for years in coolant in small dosages.
Odis has been using LC for years in coolant in small dosages.
Terry - I understand your ovservation that LC seems to break down carbon deposits into smaller particles that seem to act as solid lubricant. This sure looks like a positive benefit of LC. However, you can not explain a lot of chemical reactions and their byproducts as LC treats the oil in the CC due to lack of funds to conduct a thorough analysis.
I am currently using both FP and LC. The main reason for using these products is to prevent carbon/sludge buildup in the engine. Cleaning the engine while driving it is the idea. I was hoping that the cleaning nature of FP/LC would dump carbon into the motor oil for my bypass filter to pick up. Now with LC converting carbon into smaller particles (and who knows what else is happening) that can not be filtered out by my bypass filter really paranoids me.
I am currently using both FP and LC. The main reason for using these products is to prevent carbon/sludge buildup in the engine. Cleaning the engine while driving it is the idea. I was hoping that the cleaning nature of FP/LC would dump carbon into the motor oil for my bypass filter to pick up. Now with LC converting carbon into smaller particles (and who knows what else is happening) that can not be filtered out by my bypass filter really paranoids me.
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