Calling all GM fans...

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: dishdude


In 1988, no Hyundai was better than the worst GM, and in 2013 no one remembers the Excel, but we still hear stories about the Vega, Chevette and Citation.


I still talk about the Excel and I still say that it's biggest shortcoming was using a copy of the Mitsubishi 4G15 with a thermal wax water choke.

They did well to hire Giugiaro. It was a pretty decent looking car for the time.

To be fair, in 1988 the closest "GM" competitor was the Chevrolet Spectrum which was a rebadged Isuzu I-Mark or the Chevrolet Nova which was a rebadged Corolla. Both of which were quite a bit more expensive. On price, the Excel competed against the Chevrolet Sprint which was a rebadged Suzuki.

The 3 cylinder Suzuki spotted the 4 cylinder Excel by 500 ccs and was within a tenth or so of the 0-60 time. That's not how quick the Sprint was, it's how slow the Excel was.
But buy the tiny IHI turbocharged Sprint and it's dangerously close to Cavalier Z24 times.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`m not brand loyal at all. I LOVE Nissan Z`s,but hate most of the other cars they make. Chevy,I love Corvettes,Camaros,and that`s about it. Pontiac,I loved Trans Ams,Firebirds,and the 60`s era GTO`s. Oldsmobile,I loved the Delta series,Cutlass (till `87) and Toronado. Buick,I loved Regals/Grand Nationals,GNX`s. Toyota,I loved the Supra and their trucks. Ford,I love the V8 Mustangs and the 60s-70s era Lincoln Mark series. Mitsubishi,the 3000GT. Dodge,The Challenger. Plymouth,the Barracuda. I could probably go on and on.

All car companies make both awesome cars and total [censored] as well. That`s just the way it is I guess. They all have their flagships and their economy cars.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: Peted
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
Sounds like its time for a Tacoma test drive!


Worst vehicle I have ever owned. What a hunk of junk. 2005 Double Cab 4WD 4.0L SR5. Never again. For all the complaints people make about GM the company Toyota has to be the WORST car mfg I have ever had the sorry displeasure of having to deal with.

The Silverado is 10X's the truck a Tacoma is and gets similar MPG. I actually got better MPG out of the 05 Ext Cab 4WD 5.3L Silverado I replaced the Tacoma with than I got in the Tacoma.


I have always liked those Tacoma's. Good to know! Thanks for the input!

I really don't get all the hate on GM. In my sig you see a '09 Sierra 1500. The interior is great. It's rugged with just enough class.

Also enjoy the F-series. That was a nice truck as well, except for the spark-plug issue I had with the 5.4L Triton, what a nightmare $$$$.. The new RAM 1500 is another pick-up I considered heavily. They're all great choices.


I had a 2007 Silverado that would be the same basic thing as your 2009 Sierra( GMT900 ). That was a very good truck too. MPG was actually better in the 05 and the seats were the best( i.e. most comfortable )truck seats I have ever owned but the 07 was a better truck otherwise. My 05 got trashed in a freak hail storm and I got screwed over by insurance so sold it and got the 07.

I am really a MOPAR guy but had a brief foray into GM trucks due to better MPG out of them than a RAM. I liked both Silverados I had very much. Really nice trucks.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I'm sad to say it, but if I ever buy a new vehicle it will probably be a Toyota.


Why Toyota? Do you think that Toyota cares about you? I'm also not happy about GM's bailout, but I can assure you that Toyota would do the exact same thing as GM and Chrysler did. In fact Toyota did go to the Japanese government to secure some government backed loans. All corporations operate under the same set of rules and the rule is to make as much money as possible. Nobody's hands are clean.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03...ed-bank-for-2b/



I'm not a Toyota fan, but you can't help but notice their reliability. My friend only buys Chevy trucks. Every single one has fallen apart before 100k miles and he doesn't even haul anything. At least Toyotas have somewhat decent quality and are assembled in the US and help keep American jobs. GM and Chrysler always advertise their "American roots" and then outsource all their stuff to China. Chevy runs deep I guess.

I'm sorry but that is total [censored]. See my above post. Outsource to china? What exactly are they outsourcing to china? I want you to show evidence of what you are saying. Because with the exeption of those two vehicles I mentioned above, I can't think of a single US market vehicle that is built outside the US/Canada, and there CERTAINLY aren't any chinese built vehicles on our road- GM or not.
Toyota has never stiffed stockholders, bond holders, suppliers, and taxpayers in a bankruptcy, then bragged about making a "profit".

 

[neilLB7]

Be loyal to your wife and family. The rest is just machines that don't care about you and have no feelings. If you want a Camaro SS...get one. Or try a Boss Mustang. You know either will bring a smile to your face. And someday when you hit the Powerball...you'll want that Ferrari 458 in red. So enjoy all there is out there. You might just really like a Ram 1500 Hemi pickup.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Toyota has never stiffed stockholders, bond holders, suppliers, and taxpayers in a bankruptcy, then bragged about making a "profit".



Do you really... I mean REALLY... think that Toyota's corporate dealings have been 100% squeaky clean and above board? Do you really... and I mean REALLY... think that Toyota never participated in market manipulation, price-fixing, underselling the US competition in the 80s and 90s, etc? And let's not even talk about 'unannounced recalls' to fix defects when cars come in for service and that sort of thing. T

I mean come on. They're a GM-sized corporation, of course they've played seriously dirty plenty of times. Just because the government rather stupidly gave our money to GM, doesn't make GM products inferior or GM a more corporately corrupt company. And I'm not forgetting Chrysler, although Chrysler's already paid it back- I consider them worth saving twice because they paid back ahead of schedule both times.

Credit where credit is due, though- under Alan Mulally, Ford has certainly been the best-managed of the biggest half dozen carmakers in the world in recent years.



Why cut Toyota a break or look the other way just because they've not been exposed quite so publicly?

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


Why cut Toyota a break or look the other way just because they've not been exposed quite so publicly?


Come on, you and I both know why. It's the same reason for playing down, ignoring or downright hiding any problems with Toyota cars.
For these guys, this but naked emperor will always have his clothes on, no matter what.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I will say that in the last few years GM has started making good interiors. I think it was the bail out that helped ... they knew that they had to get their rear in gear.

Same with Ford, for almost 20 years they made bland and not-that-reliable everything ... but pickup trucks. They have also got together.

While I'm not a huge Chrysler fan, they've also stepped up the game (still not sure I can trust a chrysler product)

Instead of taking government bailout money, Ford mortgaged everything. Alan Mually did a great job at turning them around.

There are a couple of GM products I'm really interested in!

 

[chevman4life]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
The beauty of our country and our market is everyone is free to choose and has multiple options from which to choose.

The Government spends trillions of dollars on whatever they want including sending hundreds of billions to foreign countries in aid. Some of those billions fund foreign despots yet no one complains. I personally disagree with the bailouts but I would much rather the Government spend billions at home to save an American industry and the jobs attached to it than to see it get lumped in with the latest shipment of “please like us” money sent to the middle east so the leaders of those countries can buy more weapons and further subjugate their populations.

The USPS lost $16,000,000,000 last year. That means they spent more last year to deliver junk mail that it cost the government to bail out GM. Not saying it’s right or that I agree just putting it in perspective.



+1 and well said

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig

Toyota has never stiffed stockholders, bond holders, suppliers, and taxpayers in a bankruptcy, then bragged about making a "profit".


Just don't blame GM, make sure you remember who forced that one through. It sure wasn't GM!

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Toyota has never stiffed stockholders, bond holders, suppliers, and taxpayers in a bankruptcy, then bragged about making a "profit".


But Toyota and the like stiffed people working for the Domestic auto industry, the other small businesses they supported, and tax payers through subsidies and less tax revenue. I guess no one cares about that. GM would've never went bankrupt if Toyota hadn't taken a lot of the US market. If we're going to talk about financials, no one knows all the details or tells the whole story.

 

[SteveSRT8]

And GM was never going to just die. It would have quickly reorganized without the horrific legacy liabilities that will eventually drag it down anyway.

There was too much moolah to be made, smart investors would have been all over the opportunity to buy a car company cheap.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I'm sad to say it, but if I ever buy a new vehicle it will probably be a Toyota.


Why Toyota? Do you think that Toyota cares about you? I'm also not happy about GM's bailout, but I can assure you that Toyota would do the exact same thing as GM and Chrysler did. In fact Toyota did go to the Japanese government to secure some government backed loans. All corporations operate under the same set of rules and the rule is to make as much money as possible. Nobody's hands are clean.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03...ed-bank-for-2b/



I'm not a Toyota fan, but you can't help but notice their reliability. My friend only buys Chevy trucks. Every single one has fallen apart before 100k miles and he doesn't even haul anything. At least Toyotas have somewhat decent quality and are assembled in the US and help keep American jobs. GM and Chrysler always advertise their "American roots" and then outsource all their stuff to China. Chevy runs deep I guess.

What a steaming pile. I'm no fan of Generic Motors, but saying they "all" fall apart is just flat out dishonest!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071



I'm not a Toyota fan, but you can't help but notice their reliability. My friend only buys Chevy trucks. Every single one has fallen apart before 100k miles and he doesn't even haul anything. At least Toyotas have somewhat decent quality and are assembled in the US and help keep American jobs. GM and Chrysler always advertise their "American roots" and then outsource all their stuff to China. Chevy runs deep I guess.

I almost never see a full-size truck of any brand not make 100,000 miles.

Even the worst of the Powerstroke 6.0s make 100,000 miles. (recent Power-have-a-stroke diseasel fail here was at 115,000 miles. Dealer charged $14,000 for it)

The current mileage champ of all my clients is a Canadian built 1991 Chevrolet C1500. 467,000 miles and going. TBI 350 flat tappet camshaft. The interior and switch gear are falling apart but the parts that Go, Stop, and Turn are still working.

Got a client with a 318 Dodge Ram that is about 100,000 behind him. Dash may actually look worse than the '91 C1500 with nearly 1/2 million miles. But it runs well.

Got another with a T-100 over 250,000 miles. A little wear on the driver's seat is the only way you would know that it is past 1/4 million.

Various Fords. One or more may be near the C1500 but you would never know because the analog odometers quit and a cold solder joint on the digital odometers from '99-'03 is bad so you can't see the mileage. Still run like a top.

Get clients that buy 2nd, 3rd, 4th....15th hand Tahoes from various lots. If the detailer does a good job, you would never know that it is a 150,000+ mile Tahoe/Yukon. I'm of the opinion that you have to really mess up to not get 100,000 out of a Tahoe.


Liz changed a tire on a 1995 Suburban last week...it had over 350,000 miles on it (350/4L80E) and aside from the exterior being filthy, she said it looked brand new.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: Spazdog


I almost never see a full-size truck of any brand not make 100,000 miles.

Even the worst of the Powerstroke 6.0s make 100,000 miles. (recent Power-have-a-stroke diseasel fail here was at 115,000 miles. Dealer charged $14,000 for it)

The current mileage champ of all my clients is a Canadian built 1991 Chevrolet C1500. 467,000 miles and going. TBI 350 flat tappet camshaft. The interior and switch gear are falling apart but the parts that Go, Stop, and Turn are still working.

Got a client with a 318 Dodge Ram that is about 100,000 behind him. Dash may actually look worse than the '91 C1500 with nearly 1/2 million miles. But it runs well.

Got another with a T-100 over 250,000 miles. A little wear on the driver's seat is the only way you would know that it is past 1/4 million.

Various Fords. One or more may be near the C1500 but you would never know because the analog odometers quit and a cold solder joint on the digital odometers from '99-'03 is bad so you can't see the mileage. Still run like a top.

Get clients that buy 2nd, 3rd, 4th....15th hand Tahoes from various lots. If the detailer does a good job, you would never know that it is a 150,000+ mile Tahoe/Yukon. I'm of the opinion that you have to really mess up to not get 100,000 out of a Tahoe.


I never said they don't make it to 100k miles. I said that they literally FALL APART. Each of his trucks still drove, but its the build quality which sucks. The interior plastics would crack, door panels get loose, electrical problems everywhere, etc. He currently has a 2005 Duramax. The thing has been in the shop 3 times because of the transmission going into limp mode. His headlights have been working intermittently and one side is brighter than the other. Only half of his blinkers work. His fuel gauge sending unit has been replaced twice and it still doesn't work. He has other electrical problems with the dashboard. The truck has about 60k miles and was owned by an older man. His previous Silverado was a nightmare and he owned it since new. My uncle bought a 2011 Silverado with the 4.3L and he had a rear main seal leak. The truck has about 9k miles on it, and he had to fight to get it fixed under warranty, even though he had all three of his oil changes done at the dealer.

I used to like GM and love the way some of their vehicles look, but their quality has tanked.


The Duramax sounds like a flood truck! GM's interior quality has been dismal for 20+ years, but that one sounds like it got wet!

 

[SteveSRT8]

yep, nearly half a million miles on my oldest fleet truck, 3500 Savana 6.0/4L80E.

No smoke, runs perfectly, no leaks, never uses any oil.

Boy GM makes a poor truck!

 

[mechanicx]

And just think you didn't have to replace timing belts, adjust valves and change the coolant often along the way (I realize that Toyota has finally been going to timing chains and long life coolant).

 

[Tzu]

I didn't say they made a poor truck. My first vehicle (which I still have), a used '78 Chevy C10 sitting behind a barn at my brother's still runs but it's body is unfortunately very rough for 35 years in northeast Buffalo weather. Who would have guessed that! Imagine how great it would look if it lived down south it's entire life free from salty white roads 4-5 months a year? Best truck I've ever had with original engine/ 3 speed column shift manual on it's 3rd clutch in 338,000 miles, plus having 2 teenagers learn to drive it. I'm just saying their current line up doesn't make me very interested. I'll keep my '00 Silverado going as long as I can. If I've gotten good service out of our Toyota, why would I put them down? I'm happy for your van and hope you can get another 500,000 miles out of it. If GM can fix up the Malibu on their second attempt, maybe I'll drive one home, maybe not? Who knows.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
yep, nearly half a million miles on my oldest fleet truck, 3500 Savana 6.0/4L80E.

No smoke, runs perfectly, no leaks, never uses any oil.

Boy GM makes a poor truck!

 

[Robenstein]

I gave up on GM in 2008 when I bought my first import, a Scion tC. The last GM's I would have owned were equipped with the good old 3800 series motor. Not the peppiest engine by the time they phased it out, but they were truly great motors for durability and reliability. Both Buicks we had in my family with that engine lived long long lives. My 3100 equipped Monte Carlo however was a nightmare for me. Piston slap, intake/head gaskets, and the cam broke in half.

 

[Tzu]

Ditto! GM 3800's bar none........the best. I know, our Impala has one.