C&D - Mustang vs Camaro Campro

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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: cchase
I have heard (but cannot confirm) that it's going to be tough to eke more power out of the new 5.0 as its already tuned pretty hot, has headers out of the box, etc, or that it will be rather expensive, anyway.


It's not. Evolution got 36 rwhp from a mid-pipe, drop in K&N, mufflers and an unfinished tune (I'm assuming they have yet to play with VCT tables), and those factory headers are garbage. Mike Harrison has said those headers were worth 5 flywheel HP over the 3V logs, and it's not uncommon for a proper set of long tubes to see 20 HP.

Drop in a JLT RAI, 110mm MAF housing, LT's, 3" exhaust, aluminum driveshaft, and a full on tune and these things will be laying down 430-450 rwhp. The car above with minimal mods already made 405 rwhp.

I think there are gains to be had from the intake manifold as well, note the Boss302Rs already have a different manifold. The factory 80mm TB is going to be marginal once everything else is opened up as well. The Coyote engineers already admitted the 80mm TB cost them 3 HP ([censored] near offsetting the "header" gains) over the Shelby TB, so once inlet, exhaust and the tune are improved that is likely going to turn into 10+ HP.


Glad to hear my source was inaccurate. Part of the draw of this segment is mod-ability.
 
I agree. But frankly the Mustang is pretty big, too. The Challenger is even bigger. I don't get why they have to be so huge...
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: cchase
I have heard (but cannot confirm) that it's going to be tough to eke more power out of the new 5.0 as its already tuned pretty hot, has headers out of the box, etc, or that it will be rather expensive, anyway.


It's not. Evolution got 36 rwhp from a mid-pipe, drop in K&N, mufflers and an unfinished tune (I'm assuming they have yet to play with VCT tables), and those factory headers are garbage. Mike Harrison has said those headers were worth 5 flywheel HP over the 3V logs, and it's not uncommon for a proper set of long tubes to see 20 HP.

Drop in a JLT RAI, 110mm MAF housing, LT's, 3" exhaust, aluminum driveshaft, and a full on tune and these things will be laying down 430-450 rwhp. The car above with minimal mods already made 405 rwhp.

I think there are gains to be had from the intake manifold as well, note the Boss302Rs already have a different manifold. The factory 80mm TB is going to be marginal once everything else is opened up as well. The Coyote engineers already admitted the 80mm TB cost them 3 HP ([censored] near offsetting the "header" gains) over the Shelby TB, so once inlet, exhaust and the tune are improved that is likely going to turn into 10+ HP.


Glad to hear my source was inaccurate. Part of the draw of this segment is mod-ability.


Check it out:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647#!/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647?v=wall

"Our 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V (5.0 Mustang and Super Fords Magazine Project Car) made 405 RWHP and 375 RWTQ with the addition of an Off-Road X-Pipe, Catback Exhaust System, K&N Drop In Filter, and a Custom Tune! That's a gain of 36 RWHP and 23 RWTQ! That's not bad but we're still working on some other changes in the tune... to gain more horsepower and torque. We should have that worked out by the end of the week...."

13 hours ago it went:
"11.98 @ 117MPH with a 1.67 60ft
11.85 @ 117MPH with a 1.64 60ft
11.82 @ 118MPH with a 1.63 60ft

All three runs were done within 24 minutes, these are real world numbers! Videos will be posted later tonight!"

...still with stock gears and minimal power mods!
 
11.82 @ 118MPH with a 1.63 60ft

Thats hauling @## for a pretty much stock engine
shocked2.gif
 
Saw a newer Mustang with the stripes and blacked out wheels racing down 208 against a Lancer EVO(stupid if you ask me), you could hear the stang for a long while. These kids were stupid for racing on a high traffic highway(11 at night still packed). Mustang was keeping pace, maybe 1 car length pack from the lancer, didn't see how it panned out though.
 
Quote:
Check it out:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647#!/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647?v=wall

"Our 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V (5.0 Mustang and Super Fords Magazine Project Car) made 405 RWHP and 375 RWTQ with the addition of an Off-Road X-Pipe, Catback Exhaust System, K&N Drop In Filter, and a Custom Tune! That's a gain of 36 RWHP and 23 RWTQ! That's not bad but we're still working on some other changes in the tune... to gain more horsepower and torque. We should have that worked out by the end of the week...."

13 hours ago it went:
"11.98 @ 117MPH with a 1.67 60ft
11.85 @ 117MPH with a 1.64 60ft
11.82 @ 118MPH with a 1.63 60ft

All three runs were done within 24 minutes, these are real world numbers! Videos will be posted later tonight!"

...still with stock gears and minimal power mods!


Considering that Evolution's Mustang is running ET Streets, an uprated clutch, and their suspension kit... high 11s sound about right for a 400 WHP car that can hook up.

FWIW, the car ran 13.2 bone stock. The suspension dropped it to 12.85 (still on stock tires). Suspension + ET Streets = 12.49. Adding power, but going back to stock tires brought the time back into the 12.6s. More power and ET Streets brought it down to 12.04... the clutch was toast by this time. New clutch and even MORE power brough the 11.8 numbers above.

Yeah... that all sounds about right. Being able to hook up the factory 385 WHP will land you in the low 12s. Adding more power and still being able to hook it up nets high 11s.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Quote:
Check it out:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647#!/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647?v=wall

"Our 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V (5.0 Mustang and Super Fords Magazine Project Car) made 405 RWHP and 375 RWTQ with the addition of an Off-Road X-Pipe, Catback Exhaust System, K&N Drop In Filter, and a Custom Tune! That's a gain of 36 RWHP and 23 RWTQ! That's not bad but we're still working on some other changes in the tune... to gain more horsepower and torque. We should have that worked out by the end of the week...."

13 hours ago it went:
"11.98 @ 117MPH with a 1.67 60ft
11.85 @ 117MPH with a 1.64 60ft
11.82 @ 118MPH with a 1.63 60ft

All three runs were done within 24 minutes, these are real world numbers! Videos will be posted later tonight!"

...still with stock gears and minimal power mods!


Considering that Evolution's Mustang is running ET Streets, an uprated clutch, and their suspension kit... high 11s sound about right for a 400 WHP car that can hook up.


I believe they replaced it with another stock clutch, hence their comment the new one won't last long either.

Quote:
FWIW, the car ran 13.2 bone stock.


Straight off the dealer lot, it may have even had 87 octane gas in it.

Quote:
More power and ET Streets brought it down to 12.04... the clutch was toast by this time. New clutch and even MORE power brough the 11.8 numbers above.


Where are you getting this?

Quote:
Yeah... that all sounds about right. Being able to hook up the factory 385 WHP will land you in the low 12s. Adding more power and still being able to hook it up nets high 11s.


The car is heavy...
 
Quote:
Quote:
More power and ET Streets brought it down to 12.04... the clutch was toast by this time. New clutch and even MORE power brough the 11.8 numbers above.

Where are you getting this?



My fault. I thought they finished up the tune before yesterday's posting.
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
I agree. But frankly the Mustang is pretty big, too. The Challenger is even bigger. I don't get why they have to be so huge...



Because 90% of the population that buy these are no longer 130 lbs teenagers, but 300lbs+ fat-arses...
 
All those numbers are great and I like all three cars, but the pile I have sitting in the garage ran consistent 13.10s at 109.xx mph way back in 00 when it was bone stock Which 13.10 to 13.30 for a 6 speed car was average.

My old 01 Z28 would go 13.00/ 12.90 at 110.00 all day long at Bremerton Raceway.

The difference is all three new cars do a lot of things well now.
 
The Challenger is nothing but a cut down Charger. That's why it is a freaking WHALE.

It's also a super sweet and smooth driver with very competent handling. Just way too heavy.

But the competition among the big 3 is all good. For us.
 
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
All those numbers are great and I like all three cars, but the pile I have sitting in the garage ran consistent 13.10s at 109.xx mph way back in 00 when it was bone stock Which 13.10 to 13.30 for a 6 speed car was average.

My old 01 Z28 would go 13.00/ 12.90 at 110.00 all day long at Bremerton Raceway.

The difference is all three new cars do a lot of things well now.


That's what I don't get about the new crop of pony cars, the performance in the real world is only marginally better than what we had in 1998-2004. Weight needs to be brought down on all of them.
 
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Weight needs to be brought down on all of them.


^^^^^
thumbsup2.gif



I've been saying this about the "new crop" ever since they've been out!!

But I DO like their suspensions, handling prowess, solidity, drivetrains, exhaust system layouts, etc.

The main problem with weight reduction is that (if done right) it would move the price points MUCH higher than the bargain levels they are at currently.

Carbon fiber, titanium (machined/welded, etc., NOT raw), and other lightweight alloys are not exactly inexpensive.
wink.gif
 
Lets face it these 2 cars are so close it is going to come down to a drivers race. I am curious about how the new 5.0 will respond to mods such as cams and heads and such. We all know the LSX responds in a real big way.
 
The modding will be just like the differences between the 5.7 and 6.1 Chrysler V8's.

It's very easy to get BIG gains on a 5.7, but takes twice as much money for a much smaller gain on the 6.1.

It'll be the same way for the Coyote owners. The older Modulars will be much easier/cheaper to mod.
 
Originally Posted By: Anies
Saw a newer Mustang with the stripes and blacked out wheels racing down 208 against a Lancer EVO(stupid if you ask me), you could hear the stang for a long while. These kids were stupid for racing on a high traffic highway(11 at night still packed). Mustang was keeping pace, maybe 1 car length pack from the lancer, didn't see how it panned out though.


That seems to happen A LOT in our area/state.

The import 'riceboyzz' (mostly wealthy caucasian kids around here, so don't everyone start with the racist name calling [censored]
wink.gif
) always seem to be compelled to try and prove Japan's "superiority" over the USA/domestics, even at the cost/chance of killing innocents, or losing their licenses for LIFE (and jail terms)!!

It may even be spurred on more by the Imports vs. Domestic race meets at E-Town, despite the fact that these were brought about to try to end the street racing by imbiciles.

I wish I had a nickel for every seat leaned back all the way, upside down and backwards visor wearing, spikey-haired, gangsta crack rap (or techno) "bumping", melon-launcher, coffee-canned, f***-pipe, cut-springed till it's on the ground, triple decker rear winged, Nippon import driving, young idiot who revved at me while sitting at a stoplight.

I'd be quite the wealthy man by now!!!
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Lets face it these 2 cars are so close it is going to come down to a drivers race.


Probably true, but give them drivers that can get the most out each car and the 5.0 will win every time. It is the faster car: lighter, more power to the wheels, better gearing, etc.

Quote:
I am curious about how the new 5.0 will respond to mods such as cams and heads and such.


Indications have been given in this thread that the 5.0 will take to mods very well.
 
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