Buying First Sidearm! What to get???

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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
There is little reason to chose .40S&W over 9mm anymore. Bullet design trumps diameter.

What happens when you put the new super duper bullet design into a bigger bullet?

To the OP, I have a compact XD40 and am very happy with it.

Check the Glock grip angle before you buy. It does not sit well with many people including me.


The angle is fine for me.

Yes I agree with you. Any improvments made to the take down ability of the 9mm, has been done to the 40 cal. 40 cal will just pack a bit more energy into the punch, and leave a bigger hole.
 
Everyone locally that I have talked to that owns/shoots the XD40 cannot rave enough about them. I think you would be fine with that. Too bad it's just out of my price range
frown.gif
 
If it's between the Springfield and Glock, I highly recommend the Glock. I don't know about the Springfield but you can totally disassemble a Glock with just a punch in minutes for detailed cleanings and inspections and for the rare parts replacement. Being able maintain your weapon without having to send it back to the factory is a big plus in my book. Also, I think that Glock has SA beat as far as corrosion protection goes...remember, those SA's are made in Croatia and imported for SA to sell. I'm not saying that they aren't good pistols...just that I think Glocks are better.

I know you said you've made your mind up as to getting a .40, but like some of the others, I would also highly recommend a 9mm due to ammo cost, ease of followup shots, and less wear on the pistol and shooter...yep, I have a G26..(Just an FYI, I've been a Police Firearms Instructor for 15 years and have shot all kinds and calibers of weapons and I'm also a Glock Armorer...so I may be a little biased in my opinion, but for a reason!)

As always, YMMV ...
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
If it's between the Springfield and Glock, I highly recommend the Glock. I don't know about the Springfield but you can totally disassemble a Glock with just a punch in minutes for detailed cleanings and inspections and for the rare parts replacement. Being able maintain your weapon without having to send it back to the factory is a big plus in my book. Also, I think that Glock has SA beat as far as corrosion protection goes...remember, those SA's are made in Croatia and imported for SA to sell. I'm not saying that they aren't good pistols...just that I think Glocks are better.

I know you said you've made your mind up as to getting a .40, but like some of the others, I would also highly recommend a 9mm due to ammo cost, ease of followup shots, and less wear on the pistol and shooter...yep, I have a G26..(Just an FYI, I've been a Police Firearms Instructor for 15 years and have shot all kinds and calibers of weapons and I'm also a Glock Armorer...so I may be a little biased in my opinion, but for a reason!)

As always, YMMV ...

Thankyou for your reply. I feel the glock is a slight better quality as well.
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
If it's between the Springfield and Glock, I highly recommend the Glock. I don't know about the Springfield but you can totally disassemble a Glock with just a punch in minutes for detailed cleanings and inspections and for the rare parts replacement. Being able maintain your weapon without having to send it back to the factory is a big plus in my book. Also, I think that Glock has SA beat as far as corrosion protection goes...remember, those SA's are made in Croatia and imported for SA to sell. I'm not saying that they aren't good pistols...just that I think Glocks are better.

I know you said you've made your mind up as to getting a .40, but like some of the others, I would also highly recommend a 9mm due to ammo cost, ease of followup shots, and less wear on the pistol and shooter...yep, I have a G26..(Just an FYI, I've been a Police Firearms Instructor for 15 years and have shot all kinds and calibers of weapons and I'm also a Glock Armorer...so I may be a little biased in my opinion, but for a reason!)

As always, YMMV ...


Do you really feel comfortable with just a 9mm. I have heard so many recounts about police having to shoot 3, 4, 5 times in CBM to take a subject down.
I just feel the 40 cal is the mid road between take down force, and amount of recoil.
 
Don't own or desire either one. As old fashon 1911 man myself, Glocks have allways seemed undesireable to me. I've shot a couple without building any level of desire. The XD sure is a handy looking little fellow though!

I'm thinking you're going for the XD, but wouldn't mind if someone gave you a good excuse to spend up and buy the Glock.

BY THE WAY,,,,, you are a kid in a candy store! Enjoy it.

Bob
 
Originally Posted By: alreadygone
Don't own or desire either one. As old fashon 1911 man myself, Glocks have allways seemed undesireable to me. I've shot a couple without building any level of desire. The XD sure is a handy looking little fellow though!

I'm thinking you're going for the XD, but wouldn't mind if someone gave you a good excuse to spend up and buy the Glock.

BY THE WAY,,,,, you are a kid in a candy store! Enjoy it.

Bob



the 1911 is a great firearm. My pops offerd to sign over his Para 45acp 1911 to me. Its a $2000+ gun. Very nice.
I just know I am going to not carry it due to its size and weight. The one time I may skip it due to it being uncomfortable to me, may be the time I need it. So I need small and light.
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I think im going with the Xd.
 
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Yep, I'm comfortable with the 9mm...wasn't always like that...when I first got into law enforcement I was issued a model 10 .38 S&W wheel gun (an excellent handgun with a proven cartridge, I just didn't realize how good it was at the time!) and I had my own 9mm Taurus model 92..so I asked the Chief if I could carry it and he said yeah...so, now I'm packing a +P+ 9mm (handload, of all things) and feeling pretty good..until one night there was a brawl at a weekend "party house" and there was this real big fella that wasn't wanting to obey verbal commands and I remember thinking, man, I was I had a bigger bullet! Didn't have to shoot, but I did go and get me a S&W .45 auto because with this bigger bullet I could stop a bigger perp..yeah, right, well, that's what I was thinking.....anyway, over the years of studying calibers and their effectiveness and getting sideroaded along the way by what was printed in magazines and then back to the right road of actual physical data from Doctors and pathologists, I come to realize that any handgun bullet will do if it will do one thing and that is to have enough penetration to hit something vital...yep, that's it..if your handgun bullet meets that criteria, then it's up to the shooter to put them in the spots that will do the most good.

Now, don't get me wrong, bigger is always better, but if you put a .38, 9mm, .40, or ,45 in someones spine or cranial cavity or thru their heart they won't be able to tell the difference...yep, it's all about shot placement with adequate penetration and a 9mm will do. I have went from the +P+ 115 grain bullets to the heavier 147 grain and wouldn't feel bad using the 124 or 127 grainers either but for an up close and personal defense load I think the 147 will do it's part if I do mine. I also moved on to the Glock pistols as well (although a nice Browning HiPower still has it's place too). Concerning the baby Glock, using a 147 standard pressure load just makes it very controlable while still being effective. It's never been said that a 158 grain +P LSWC in .38 special just won't do and that's about what you got with a 147 grain 9mm except with a little more oomph - when you think of it that way, it ain't so bad now is it! ... and a little G26 with ten of those cartridges makes for an awful easy to conceal carry pistol with plenty of power on tap to handle whatever is likely to come along...and the little thing is surprisingly accurate too.

The reason I don't care for the .40 is due to it's snappy recoil along with the fact that it had a shaky start with some ammo blowing case heads off. If the bullet gets just a little setback in it's brass watch out, the pressure will really go up and it's got to get out some how. This isn't as much of a concern as it use to be but still something to watch out for..I recommend testing the ammo by rechambering the same round a few times to see if it sets back in it's case so you'd know up front if when you cleared your weapon that it would be ok to rechamber the same round without it getting setback or to move on to the next round and leave that one out. Remember, .40 caliber pistols are the same size as 9mm pistols only they are shooting a larger bullet with high pressure which means less gun to handle more bullet whereas the 9mm has plenty of extra gun to contain it's pressures.

I do like the .45 ACP (a big bullet but with low pressure) and it is my preferred choice when I open carry using my full size Kimber. But, when carrying my .45 I don't really think of it's caliber as being the only benefit as much as I do it's accuracy...and if I was gonna carry in inclement weather where my pistol was gonna get a lot of exposure to some bad elements, then I'd most likely strap on my Glock 17 and be content. I let the environment dictate which weapon gets the job..not that my Kimber won't work in a bad environment, it's just that it's a whole lot easier to break down a glock than it is a 1911 when it's time for a thorough cleaning.

Those stories that you've heard about the 9mm failing in it's job would have probably been the same story with any caliber handgun...or it could have just been the wrong choice in ammunition for that situation...there ain't no magic bullets that will work the best in every situation but, generally speaking, the middle to the heavier weight bullets in each caliber will provide for the best all around results for that caliber...choice should be whichever one hits point of aim and works 100% in your pistol...reliability first followed closely by accuracy.

Yep, for a reliable, durable, easy to carry and shoot pistol with plenty of bullets on tap, the Glock 26 is hard to beat.

As always, YMMV
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
Yep, I'm comfortable with the 9mm...wasn't always like that...when I first got into law enforcement I was issued a model 10 .38 S&W wheel gun (an excellent handgun with a proven cartridge, I just didn't realize how good it was at the time!) and I had my own 9mm Taurus model 92..so I asked the Chief if I could carry it and he said yeah...so, now I'm packing a +P+ 9mm (handload, of all things) and feeling pretty good..until one night there was a brawl at a weekend "party house" and there was this real big fella that wasn't wanting to obey verbal commands and I remember thinking, man, I was I had a bigger bullet! Didn't have to shoot, but I did go and get me a S&W .45 auto because with this bigger bullet I could stop a bigger perp..yeah, right, well, that's what I was thinking.....anyway, over the years of studying calibers and their effectiveness and getting sideroaded along the way by what was printed in magazines and then back to the right road of actual physical data from Doctors and pathologists, I come to realize that any handgun bullet will do if it will do one thing and that is to have enough penetration to hit something vital...yep, that's it..if your handgun bullet meets that criteria, then it's up to the shooter to put them in the spots that will do the most good.

Now, don't get me wrong, bigger is always better, but if you put a .38, 9mm, .40, or ,45 in someones spine or cranial cavity or thru their heart they won't be able to tell the difference...yep, it's all about shot placement with adequate penetration and a 9mm will do. I have went from the +P+ 115 grain bullets to the heavier 147 grain and wouldn't feel bad using the 124 or 127 grainers either but for an up close and personal defense load I think the 147 will do it's part if I do mine. I also moved on to the Glock pistols as well (although a nice Browning HiPower still has it's place too). Concerning the baby Glock, using a 147 standard pressure load just makes it very controlable while still being effective. It's never been said that a 158 grain +P LSWC in .38 special just won't do and that's about what you got with a 147 grain 9mm except with a little more oomph - when you think of it that way, it ain't so bad now is it! ... and a little G26 with ten of those cartridges makes for an awful easy to conceal carry pistol with plenty of power on tap to handle whatever is likely to come along...and the little thing is surprisingly accurate too.

The reason I don't care for the .40 is due to it's snappy recoil along with the fact that it had a shaky start with some ammo blowing case heads off. If the bullet gets just a little setback in it's brass watch out, the pressure will really go up and it's got to get out some how. This isn't as much of a concern as it use to be but still something to watch out for..I recommend testing the ammo by rechambering the same round a few times to see if it sets back in it's case so you'd know up front if when you cleared your weapon that it would be ok to rechamber the same round without it getting setback or to move on to the next round and leave that one out. Remember, .40 caliber pistols are the same size as 9mm pistols only they are shooting a larger bullet with high pressure which means less gun to handle more bullet whereas the 9mm has plenty of extra gun to contain it's pressures.

I do like the .45 ACP (a big bullet but with low pressure) and it is my preferred choice when I open carry using my full size Kimber. But, when carrying my .45 I don't really think of it's caliber as being the only benefit as much as I do it's accuracy...and if I was gonna carry in inclement weather where my pistol was gonna get a lot of exposure to some bad elements, then I'd most likely strap on my Glock 17 and be content. I let the environment dictate which weapon gets the job..not that my Kimber won't work in a bad environment, it's just that it's a whole lot easier to break down a glock than it is a 1911 when it's time for a thorough cleaning.

Those stories that you've heard about the 9mm failing in it's job would have probably been the same story with any caliber handgun...or it could have just been the wrong choice in ammunition for that situation...there ain't no magic bullets that will work the best in every situation but, generally speaking, the middle to the heavier weight bullets in each caliber will provide for the best all around results for that caliber...choice should be whichever one hits point of aim and works 100% in your pistol...reliability first followed closely by accuracy.

Yep, for a reliable, durable, easy to carry and shoot pistol with plenty of bullets on tap, the Glock 26 is hard to beat.

As always, YMMV



GREAT info!
Thanks for your time. I may have to relook into the 9mm round.
The 26/27 is a great CCW. Its tough to beat.


1WildPig, your makeing my choice HARDER!!!!
LOL
 
FWIW the +P+ RA9TA 127 GR. Winchester 9MM has ballistics that are similar to a 357 Mag. revolver 4" bbl with 125 GR. hollow point defense loads .

They also bark about the same ...
 
LOL, sorry,...another thought...if you really have to have somewhere to put your little finger, instead of letting it curl under the mag, you can get a Glock +2 mag floor plate which will also let you put two more rds in the mag (which I really don't recommend keeping a mag completely full) or a Pearce (+0) floor plate which adds no extra rounds but provides a place for your little finger OR, if it fits your hand, you could just get the Glock model 19 and have 15 rds on tap since your pistol butt is now about as long as the 19's is...it's kinda strange, but the 19 doesn't feel as good in my hand as the 26 and the full size 17 does..I got use to curling my little finger under the grip of a J frame S&W when I was all about wheel guns and curling it under the 26 is just as natural to me. It's the location of that hump in the backstrap I guess....Oh, I can get use to it and the 19 shoots well, but I just stick to the 17 and 26 and my wife takes the 19 because it fits her hand better than the other two..different strokes for different folks!
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
There is little reason to chose .40S&W over 9mm anymore. Bullet design trumps diameter.

What happens when you put the new super duper bullet design into a bigger bullet?


It does help them, but not as much as it has helped the 9mm. 9mm faced a bigger challenge, because it was a pointy bullet, which meant a smaller cavity. That left them trying to drive a light weight bullet at high speeds to force it to open. That caused problems, because it opened and stopped too shallow in the torso, preventing it from damaging vital organs. Many of the 147gr rounds failed to open at all, because they weren't traveling fast enough for the bullet design. Modern designs are pretty much guaranteed to expand and penetrate at least 12 inches. The round I carry, the Federal HST (High Shok Tactical) has a relieved jacket that provides less tearing resistance than a solid jacket on the older designs. It tears on those reliefs reliably, and expands reliably.

The newest .45ACP rounds are absolutely nasty. The Winchester Ranger T and Federal HST open up to dang near 1" diameter and chew the meat to pieces.

But still, modern 9mm hollowpoints perform far better than the .45ACP hollowpoints of 15 years ago, due to technological advancements.

http://www.jtice.com/blogs/ballistics_testing_3-3-07/

http://www.jtice.com/directoryjtice.php?album=Guns/Ballistics_Testing

The above links are from a friend of mine.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
There is little reason to chose .40S&W over 9mm anymore. Bullet design trumps diameter.

What happens when you put the new super duper bullet design into a bigger bullet?


It does help them, but not as much as it has helped the 9mm. 9mm faced a bigger challenge, because it was a pointy bullet, which meant a smaller cavity. That left them trying to drive a light weight bullet at high speeds to force it to open. That caused problems, because it opened and stopped too shallow in the torso, preventing it from damaging vital organs. Many of the 147gr rounds failed to open at all, because they weren't traveling fast enough for the bullet design. Modern designs are pretty much guaranteed to expand and penetrate at least 12 inches. The round I carry, the Federal HST (High Shok Tactical) has a relieved jacket that provides less tearing resistance than a solid jacket on the older designs. It tears on those reliefs reliably, and expands reliably.

The newest .45ACP rounds are absolutely nasty. The Winchester Ranger T and Federal HST open up to dang near 1" diameter and chew the meat to pieces.

But still, modern 9mm hollowpoints perform far better than the .45ACP hollowpoints of 15 years ago, due to technological advancements.

http://www.jtice.com/blogs/ballistics_testing_3-3-07/

http://www.jtice.com/directoryjtice.php?album=Guns/Ballistics_Testing

The above links are from a friend of mine.


very cool info.

Those HST's look very nasty!
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig
LOL, sorry,...another thought...if you really have to have somewhere to put your little finger, instead of letting it curl under the mag, you can get a Glock +2 mag floor plate which will also let you put two more rds in the mag (which I really don't recommend keeping a mag completely full) or a Pearce (+0) floor plate which adds no extra rounds but provides a place for your little finger OR, if it fits your hand, you could just get the Glock model 19 and have 15 rds on tap since your pistol butt is now about as long as the 19's is...it's kinda strange, but the 19 doesn't feel as good in my hand as the 26 and the full size 17 does..I got use to curling my little finger under the grip of a J frame S&W when I was all about wheel guns and curling it under the 26 is just as natural to me. It's the location of that hump in the backstrap I guess....Oh, I can get use to it and the 19 shoots well, but I just stick to the 17 and 26 and my wife takes the 19 because it fits her hand better than the other two..different strokes for different folks!


Yea, I was looking at those Pearce mag extend. I have fired the 26, I do not mind to much the lack of 3rd groove.

I like how easy it is to hide the frame and handel of the 26. you could wear a Tshirt and it would still be hidden.
 
Originally Posted By: Solo2driver
I am getting one of these, not for performance necessarily but for excellent feel, compactness, and very easy side thumb safety. And, they are made in a 9mm, .40, and .45 and all cost the same at the local sporting goods store for about $300--

Edit-- and they have a lifetime warranty (on the gun, no matter how many owners). Academy Sporting Goods carries them around here, super-light and great feel.

taurus_mill_pro.jpg





I agree. I carry this same gun in .40. I like it even better than my scandium S&W .357, which I carry as well.

Now, my wife carrys a compact XD in .40 and my dad gave up his glock for an XD 9mm. My vote goes to the XD since you gave us 2 choices to consider (glock/XD). I also agree with you that the Colt is too heavy - I also have Colt Defender that is just to heavy for daily carry to me.
 
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Not trying to sound like a broken record but,

Watch imported weapons. If you do buy one, get extra parts that may break.

If you have one, get those parts.

I'm saying this because it seems no one is understanding this.

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: 1WildPig



The reason I don't care for the .40 is due to it's snappy recoil along with the fact that it had a shaky start with some ammo blowing case heads off. If the bullet gets just a little setback in it's brass watch out, the pressure will really go up and it's got to get out some how. This isn't as much of a concern as it use to be but still something to watch out for..I recommend testing the ammo by rechambering the same round a few times to see if it sets back in it's case so you'd know up front if when you cleared your weapon that it would be ok to rechamber the same round without it getting setback or to move on to the next round and leave that one out. Remember, .40 caliber pistols are the same size as 9mm pistols only they are shooting a larger bullet with high pressure which means less gun to handle more bullet whereas the 9mm has plenty of extra gun to contain it's pressures.

Most of the .40 S&W problems are with Glocks and their unsupported chambers I've seen.

I think a 9mm +p+ is right up there with any .40cal for pressure. (I'll have to check some manuals and see)

Plus the 9mm +p+ is a hard round to find. Plenty of good .40 cal ammo which is easier to get at a local store.

I can not get a 9mm +p+ round at Cabelas or Sportmans. (just looked at Cabelas, only the 9mm +p is avail)

With all this said, my wife carries a S&W M&P 9c and I would not want to play with her. The 9mm rounds today are very effective.

Take care, bill
 
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Not trying to sound like a broken record but,

Watch imported weapons. If you do buy one, get extra parts that may break.

If you have one, get those parts.

I'm saying this because it seems no one is understanding this.

Bill


I hear you.
 
I own a S&W Sigma in .40 S&W. Nice cheap Glock clone. I do agree with the post on Glocks (and Sigmas, by extension) being unsafe, though. I've owned mine for 10 years. It's been a great pistol. But if I had to do it over, I would have probably gone with the S&W CS45 or 4506 that I was also looking at.
 
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