Buying a new PC

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Originally Posted By: azjake
About 18 months ago I bought an emachines brand at Walmart for $400 and that included the monitor. It came with 1GB of memory and for $30 more I bought an additional GB. The one thing I would recommend with a Windows PC is get at least 2GB memory. I use my PC for about the same things you do and my inexpensive emachines PC has served me well.

4GB is pretty much considered the standard these days.

One thing to keep in mind is that machines that have an odd amount of RAM (1GB or 3GB) are not running the memory in dual channel mode. Dual channel mode makes the bus width 128bits versus 64 bit for single channel.
 
Originally Posted By: buickman50401
Originally Posted By: azjake
About 18 months ago I bought an emachines brand at Walmart for $400 and that included the monitor. It came with 1GB of memory and for $30 more I bought an additional GB. The one thing I would recommend with a Windows PC is get at least 2GB memory. I use my PC for about the same things you do and my inexpensive emachines PC has served me well.

4GB is pretty much considered the standard these days.

One thing to keep in mind is that machines that have an odd amount of RAM (1GB or 3GB) are not running the memory in dual channel mode. Dual channel mode makes the bus width 128bits versus 64 bit for single channel.



This is not the case anymore. Modern memory controllers in fact will run in dual channel mode with different size memory sticks. They run in a mode called unganged, which essentially turns a single 128 bit memory controller into two 64 bit memory controllers. Theoretically it's faster than ganged mode, and it allows different size cards to be used.
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R


Dude, we are talking about a cheap consumer desktop, NOT a commercial grade workstation, server, or business class machine. They are in completely different leagues. That would be like comparing a Briggs & Stratton 675 nikasil bore lawnmower versus an iron sleeved, OHV one for commercial use. They are completey different in terms of quality.

I recommend the protection plans if you are the kind of person that if it breaks, you just want to be able to bring it in, it get's fixed, and you pick it up again. Depending on who you buy it from.


And I made the distinction in my post! I said the consumer based PCs all contained parts that came from the lowest bidders (in any particular class of components). There's really not a hills worth of beans difference between consumer level computers containing parts with similar specifications, all other things being equal. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw.

Your anti-HP and Dell opinions are just as bad as people who rant about Ford or Chevy being the best truck.

And as for the extended warranties, I recommended them for LAPTOPS only. They are more difficult to repair and contain more proprietary parts. You don't want a junk laptop after a year, do you?? That's what can happen. You buy one and it breaks and then the repair cost is higher than the value of the unit. The stores try to sell it as a convenience, but really it boils down to economics and risk mitigation.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
Originally Posted By: Nick R


Dude, we are talking about a cheap consumer desktop, NOT a commercial grade workstation, server, or business class machine. They are in completely different leagues. That would be like comparing a Briggs & Stratton 675 nikasil bore lawnmower versus an iron sleeved, OHV one for commercial use. They are completey different in terms of quality.

I recommend the protection plans if you are the kind of person that if it breaks, you just want to be able to bring it in, it get's fixed, and you pick it up again. Depending on who you buy it from.


And I made the distinction in my post! I said the consumer based PCs all contained parts that came from the lowest bidders (in any particular class of components). There's really not a hills worth of beans difference between consumer level computers containing parts with similar specifications, all other things being equal. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw.

Your anti-HP and Dell opinions are just as bad as people who rant about Ford or Chevy being the best truck.

And as for the extended warranties, I recommended them for LAPTOPS only. They are more difficult to repair and contain more proprietary parts. You don't want a junk laptop after a year, do you?? That's what can happen. You buy one and it breaks and then the repair cost is higher than the value of the unit. The stores try to sell it as a convenience, but really it boils down to economics and risk mitigation.


Not so much. There is a eason that ASUS, and Lenovo are generally much more reliable in the consumer space than HP. HP has by far the highest failure rate of any computer company, in laptops. I seem to recall that 25% of HP laptops will suffer a catastrophic failure within 3 years. That figure was I thin, ~10% for ASUS and Toshiba. You forget, I sold computers and printers to people for 18 months, I saw what broke, and what didn't. And HP computers were by far the most failure prone units. If a customer came up to me and told me they needed a new computer because their year old one had the motherboard die, I'd ask if it was an HP. And the answer was ALWAYS yes.
 
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ASUS is a major component vendor to HP! Many HP consumer systems that I have been under the hood of have ASUS OEM motherboards in them! How exactly can you square that with what you said?

As for the HP Laptops, they had a major problem with the GeForce Go based chips in the dv6000 and dv9000 a few years back, they were running way too hot and would burn out. They refused to do a wholesale recall, and their reputation took a hit. Other companies had problems with the same chipsets but they didn't sell near as many as HP did. Try this Google search for more information: Google Search on HP laptop problems

Don't bother throwing out that you sold computers and printers to people for 18 months. I've been in this business for 16 years, both corporate IT and retail, support and sales. I didn't just fall off the apple cart and start posting in this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
ASUS is a major component vendor to HP! Many HP consumer systems that I have been under the hood of have ASUS OEM motherboards in them! How exactly can you square that with what you said?

As for the HP Laptops, they had a major problem with the GeForce Go based chips in the dv6000 and dv9000 a few years back, they were running way too hot and would burn out. They refused to do a wholesale recall, and their reputation took a hit. Other companies had problems with the same chipsets but they didn't sell near as many as HP did. Try this Google search for more information: Google Search on HP laptop problems

Don't bother throwing out that you sold computers and printers to people for 18 months. I've been in this business for 16 years, both corporate IT and retail, support and sales. I didn't just fall off the apple cart and start posting in this thread.


There is a difference between being MADE by ASUS, and being FROM Asus. They may be put together by ASUS, but they are built and designed from HP specifications. That generally means they cheaped out on things like capacitors (Dell had this a few years back), and overall quality. Every time I've ever opened one of ASUS consumer desktops, the motherboard that's used is one that I can go online to newegg, and purchase. They use the same motherboards as they sell to PC builders. They feature an altered BIOS, but beyond that the boards are identical, in many cases right down to the solid capacitors, and special features like EPU, etc.

Every HP desktop I've opened up was a generic motherboard with cruddy chinese electrolytic capacitors, generic, budget design (only 2 DRAM slots, for example, or no PCIe).

image1.jpg
 
That chart needs to be broken down more. The 3rd year is an estimation. What faults characterize a 'malfunction'? A hardware problem? Who published the data?

Seems like from the non-projected data that everyone is within 6% of each other. Which to me indicates the data not being very far off of the margin of error in the survey. The difference between Asus and HP outside of the margin of error is maybe 2%.

My laptop is a Toshiba with a C2D. Before I bought that one, I bought another Toshiba with some sort of AMD 2.0Ghz in it. It was faster, but it ran much hotter, and I was having boot problems within the first few days or so. It would sit at the POST screen and not boot up, randomly. So I returned it and got the laptop I have now. Which had the DVD-RW drive break within the extended warranty, so I had it fixed.

Thusly, my personal experience with Toshiba laptops is a 100% malfunction rate. Nevertheless, I would buy another one in the future if it had the features that I wanted. Because I believe it what I said, that it's pretty much a tossuup.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nick R

There is a difference between being MADE by ASUS, and being FROM Asus. They may be put together by ASUS, but they are built and designed from HP specifications. That generally means they cheaped out on things like capacitors (Dell had this a few years back), and overall quality.

Agreed. The made by ASUS for ASUS equipment is much higher quality than the components they provide to HP which are all based on hitting a specific price point dictated by HP.
 
Originally Posted By: buickman50401

One thing to keep in mind is that machines that have an odd amount of RAM (1GB or 3GB) are not running the memory in dual channel mode. Dual channel mode makes the bus width 128bits versus 64 bit for single channel.

I despise how Dell stuffs their base configuration with 1GB DIMMs so you have to discard them all to add any memory, but that is another subject. I prefer how some other vendors have simply been putting in one 4GB module for over a year now, making a memory upgrade painless.

But some time ago, Intel introduced what they call "Flex Memory Access" which they describe as "Facilitates easier upgrades by allowing different memory sizes to be populated and remain in dual-channel mode."

Perhaps what Flex Memory Access does is allow dual channel access as far as the module size can match. Ex, with 3GB (one 1GB and one 2GB) the first 2GB of memory can be accessed dual channel. But that is a mere guess on my part.

Arrandale and Sandy Bridge CPUs have Flex Memory Access. Penryn and Clarkdale did not.
 
Originally Posted By: BearZDefect
Originally Posted By: buickman50401

One thing to keep in mind is that machines that have an odd amount of RAM (1GB or 3GB) are not running the memory in dual channel mode. Dual channel mode makes the bus width 128bits versus 64 bit for single channel.

I despise how Dell stuffs their base configuration with 1GB DIMMs so you have to discard them all to add any memory, but that is another subject. I prefer how some other vendors have simply been putting in one 4GB module for over a year now, making a memory upgrade painless.

But some time ago, Intel introduced what they call "Flex Memory Access" which they describe as "Facilitates easier upgrades by allowing different memory sizes to be populated and remain in dual-channel mode."

Perhaps what Flex Memory Access does is allow dual channel access as far as the module size can match. Ex, with 3GB (one 1GB and one 2GB) the first 2GB of memory can be accessed dual channel. But that is a mere guess on my part.

Arrandale and Sandy Bridge CPUs have Flex Memory Access. Penryn and Clarkdale did not.
4


Yes. BOTH AMD and Intel have had this for years. It turns the memory controller into two 64 bit memory controllers: it's called unganged mode on AMD systems. That means that DIMM slots 1 and 2 (from left to right) are one channel, and 3, 4 are the other channel.

For example when I upgraded my laptop memory, I upgraded from 3GB (2+1) to 6 (4+2) and both ran and run in dual channel mode, unganged mode.
 
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While I think even HP itself would acknowledge that it's laptops were not very reliable up to a few years ago, things have really turned around. And some of the big issues were actually created by other component suppliers where the specs were generic and not dictated by HP,the nVIda graphic card issue in 2009.

I'd buy an HP laptop today, without any concern.

That being said their desktops have always been great.

I'm typing on a 2001 Pavilion 7955 that has been in continuous use now for over ten years with no hardware issues and it is still on the original BIOS battery!!! LOL
 
To give some closure I'm going to buy the Lenovo IdeaCentre H415 . It seemes like a good deal at the price point I was looking for.

Thanks for the input and advice I appreciate it.
 
I say chuck the display.

2012 is the year of the all-in-one units. HP has some really nifty 20" or 24" touch panel units. These change the way a family uses it for browsing, entertainment, games, etc. FINALLY pushing Windows into the touch realm that's usable.

These units are an easy sell for businesses so employees don't need a mouse anymore, even with 10 year old point of sale Windows apps.

Dell makes some all in ones as well but haven't placed my hands on them yet.
 
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
I say chuck the display.

2012 is the year of the all-in-one units. HP has some really nifty 20" or 24" touch panel units. These change the way a family uses it for browsing, entertainment, games, etc. FINALLY pushing Windows into the touch realm that's usable.

These units are an easy sell for businesses so employees don't need a mouse anymore, even with 10 year old point of sale Windows apps.

Dell makes some all in ones as well but haven't placed my hands on them yet.



If anyone buys an all-in-one I would ONLY recommend it if they want to pay higher prices for laptop performance, and if they bought a protection plan. Those screens are EXPENSIVE to replace, and fairly trouble-prone (not just HP- this is all of them)
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: ToyotaNSaturn
I say chuck the display.

2012 is the year of the all-in-one units. HP has some really nifty 20" or 24" touch panel units. These change the way a family uses it for browsing, entertainment, games, etc. FINALLY pushing Windows into the touch realm that's usable.

These units are an easy sell for businesses so employees don't need a mouse anymore, even with 10 year old point of sale Windows apps.

Dell makes some all in ones as well but haven't placed my hands on them yet.



If anyone buys an all-in-one I would ONLY recommend it if they want to pay higher prices for laptop performance, and if they bought a protection plan. Those screens are EXPENSIVE to replace, and fairly trouble-prone (not just HP- this is all of them)



Maybe that was true of 1st gen units, but the latest from HP looks to have desktop performance, desktop guts and a great package to wrap it all in. Easy to work on, too:

Teardown of HP 27" all in one:
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/crackin...t;siu-container
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R


If anyone buys an all-in-one I would ONLY recommend it if they want to pay higher prices for laptop performance, and if they bought a protection plan. Those screens are EXPENSIVE to replace, and fairly trouble-prone (not just HP- this is all of them)


Well . . . we have 2 Lenovo AIOs, one in 24/7 service since 2009, and neither has missed a beat.

They aren't the most upgradable things, and are not the choice for heavy task power computing. But they don't take up much space, run cool and quietly, and get the job done.

But they'll both be getting replaced with pads and docks when they are done. Pads are the future, and I'm very much looking forward to when there is only one "box" in the house.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Nick R


If anyone buys an all-in-one I would ONLY recommend it if they want to pay higher prices for laptop performance, and if they bought a protection plan. Those screens are EXPENSIVE to replace, and fairly trouble-prone (not just HP- this is all of them)


Well . . . we have 2 Lenovo AIOs, one in 24/7 service since 2009, and neither has missed a beat.

They aren't the most upgradable things, and are not the choice for heavy task power computing. But they don't take up much space, run cool and quietly, and get the job done.

But they'll both be getting replaced with pads and docks when they are done. Pads are the future, and I'm very much looking forward to when there is only one "box" in the house.


Problem with pads is that the user interface is just not practical for productive work. Not having a REAL keyboard is a pain. Not to mention that smearing my fingers on the screen just seems nasty. Also as we have seen heat is still a huge problem for these compact devices.
 
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