Briggs 25HP Commercial engines

[The_Eric]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of picking up a Snapper Pro zero turn with the 25HP Briggs Commercial engine. I'm curious what the general consensus is on this engine/series - where does it trace it;'s lineage from? Vangaurd? I/C? New design?

I worked on a 72" Snapper Pro zero turn with the 27HP engine and it was a beast for sure! The owner had already replaced the engine once though (and with real low hours), so I'm not sure if it's a fluke?

Also are the hydro pumps reliable on this?

 

[spackard]

Snapper tends to choose good engines for their mowers. They don't seem to choose junkers, leaving those to another brand.

 

[old1]

I am a fan of both Snapper and Briggs, but of course Snapper uses Briggs, as it is owned by Briggs.

 

[sweezy722]

I have a 27 commercial turf and have put about 300 hours on it. It runs great and uses no oil after the first 100 hours. It did use a little oil in the first 100 hours. I just started using straight 30 weight oil and like it better than the 10-30 I was using. The oil seems to stay clean for along time with the straight 30 oil. I really like the air filter as it goes longer between cleanings.

This motor is a replacement as I overheated the first motor. The original motor was different. I really like mine.

 

[thastinger]

I'm just a homeowner but I have the 27HP commercial turf on my 61" Ferris ZTR...which I believe is the same motor you're talking about but mine is a 2013 model so they were rating them differently back then, it is 810cc. After 2 hrs, I changed the factory fill and oil filter. I use mobil 1 euro 0-40 for oil and run a motorcraft 400s filter. The motor has a ton of power on a 61" deck. Only has 155Hrs on it because it cuts so fast, but no problems from the motor.

Ferris and Snapper are the same company now. My Ferris has the hydrogear ZT3400 transaxles, they are a pump and motor combo. I haven't had any issues out of mine, I run mobil 1 15-50 in them and genuine hydro gear filters. Stay up on the maintenance with these as they are spendy to replace. Some guys have had the pump covers leak but the fix is very easy to do, you replace the cast aluminium cover with a milled steel one and no more issues. They have a good warranty though.

 

[meadows]

Do not buy that junk, get a Kubota zero turn. I have had mine eight years, And just changed oil, filters, and blades. Used to buy other stuff and had the honor of working on them. Now all I do is cut grass.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted by thastinger
I'm just a homeowner but I have the 27HP commercial turf on my 61" Ferris ZTR...which I believe is the same motor you're talking about but mine is a 2013 model so they were rating them differently back then, it is 810cc. After 2 hrs, I changed the factory fill and oil filter. I use mobil 1 euro 0-40 for oil and run a motorcraft 400s filter. The motor has a ton of power on a 61" deck. Only has 155Hrs on it because it cuts so fast, but no problems from the motor.

Ferris and Snapper are the same company now. My Ferris has the hydrogear ZT3400 transaxles, they are a pump and motor combo. I haven't had any issues out of mine, I run mobil 1 15-50 in them and genuine hydro gear filters. Stay up on the maintenance with these as they are spendy to replace. Some guys have had the pump covers leak but the fix is very easy to do, you replace the cast aluminium cover with a milled steel one and no more issues. They have a good warranty though.

I was doing some light reading on the commercial series engines and it looks like they may have changed around the 2017/2018 area. So far good reviews though.

How often do you change the hydro lube?

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted by meadows
Do not buy that junk, get a Kubota zero turn. I have had mine eight years, And just changed oil, filters, and blades. Used to buy other stuff and had the honor of working on them. Now all I do is cut grass.



I don't mean to be rude, but your post is of no use to me. Have you purchased either a mower with this new engine or the Snapper in question?

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted by sweezy722
I have a 27 commercial turf and have put about 300 hours on it. It runs great and uses no oil after the first 100 hours. It did use a little oil in the first 100 hours. I just started using straight 30 weight oil and like it better than the 10-30 I was using. The oil seems to stay clean for along time with the straight 30 oil. I really like the air filter as it goes longer between cleanings.

This motor is a replacement as I overheated the first motor. The original motor was different. I really like mine.

How did you manage to overheat it? Didn't keep the cooling fins cleaned? Does yours have the external oil cooler?

 

[JTK]

That's a great engine, but the engine is only part of the puzzle. Briggs V-twins have always been good engines IMO. The drive system, cutting deck, etc.. are equally as important. With machines as expensive as this ($6000+), dealer availability and warranty would be important to me. If resale value is your thing, unless it's green or orange resale pretty much tanks on you.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted by JTK
That's a great engine, but the engine is only part of the puzzle. Briggs V-twins have always been good engines IMO. The drive system, cutting deck, etc.. are equally as important. With machines as expensive as this ($6000+), dealer availability and warranty would be important to me. If resale value is your thing, unless it's green or orange resale pretty much tanks on you.



This one is $4000 but I understand your point. I'm going to look it over later today most likely, but IF it's like the 72" deck version, then the whole machine is pretty substantial. The deck on the 72" one was fabbed with heavy gauge steel and took a fair bit of leg effort to raise and lower to and from it's adjustment stop.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by The_Eric



This one is $4000 but I understand your point. I'm going to look it over later today most likely, but IF it's like the 72" deck version, then the whole machine is pretty substantial. The deck on the 72" one was fabbed with heavy gauge steel and took a fair bit of leg effort to raise and lower to and from it's adjustment stop.


Fabbed decks are nice but it's not a deal breaker. There's some really good stamped steel ones out there too. Check over the hangers and hardware on the deck. If it has unitized drives, they'll most likely be the HydroGear ZT series like mentioned above. The ZT2800 and up are serviceable, in that each has it's own oil and spin-on filter that can be changed. You can get a feel for the condition of used OPE quickly. If it looks like it was cared for, I've never found it to not be.

 

[thastinger]

Originally Posted by The_Eric
Originally Posted by thastinger
I'm just a homeowner but I have the 27HP commercial turf on my 61" Ferris ZTR...which I believe is the same motor you're talking about but mine is a 2013 model so they were rating them differently back then, it is 810cc. After 2 hrs, I changed the factory fill and oil filter. I use mobil 1 euro 0-40 for oil and run a motorcraft 400s filter. The motor has a ton of power on a 61" deck. Only has 155Hrs on it because it cuts so fast, but no problems from the motor.

Ferris and Snapper are the same company now. My Ferris has the hydrogear ZT3400 transaxles, they are a pump and motor combo. I haven't had any issues out of mine, I run mobil 1 15-50 in them and genuine hydro gear filters. Stay up on the maintenance with these as they are spendy to replace. Some guys have had the pump covers leak but the fix is very easy to do, you replace the cast aluminium cover with a milled steel one and no more issues. They have a good warranty though.

I was doing some light reading on the commercial series engines and it looks like they may have changed around the 2017/2018 area. So far good reviews though.

How often do you change the hydro lube?


I ran it 5 hrs the first time, then I changed it and the filters. My manual says 100hrs following the initial 5hr change. They spec conventional 20-50 motor oil in the manual.

 

[meadows]

If you bought the Kubota, you would find it of use to you. I never would've believed it myself, one of my friends talked me in to it.

 

[thastinger]

Originally Posted by meadows
Do not buy that junk, get a Kubota zero turn. I have had mine eight years, And just changed oil, filters, and blades. Used to buy other stuff and had the honor of working on them. Now all I do is cut grass.


You're a bit behind the times. The only components which differ on modern ZTRs is the deck and the frame.

Frames and decks are built in-house (or sub'd out in some cases I'm sure) but engines, pumps, motors, spindles and blades are manufactured by third parties. As the consumer, you're looking for the combo that suites you needs.

My brother had a ZD31 for many years, no complaints, good service. He now has a grasshopper diesel with the cat motor...times they are a changin.

 

[The_Eric]

Well I went and looked at it over lunch and it's the S40. It comes with the ZT2800 hydro and according to the owner of the OPE dealer, has a bit lighter frame than it's bigger brothers (c-channel versus tube and a bolt on front end vs welded). Basically a "Pro-sumer" type mower. He's asking $4099 but with my wife's prior military service, could get $150 instant discount and a $150 prepaid card.

 

[sweezy722]

I overheated my first engine mulching leaves on a very windy day. The temperature was about 45 F. The first thing I noticed was a little smoke. I turned around to look behind as I figured leaves had gotten on the muffler from the large pile of leaves I was working. The fan shroud was completely covered with leaves. I shut it off but damage was already done. Both cylinders were scored. I honed the cylinders and put it bake together. It ran good but had so much blow by that it pushed oil out several places. I got tired of adding oil and wiping it up after 35 hours. Needless to say I now monitor the fan shroud.

My mower now has the 49T877 Briggs Commercial Turf with Hydrogear ZT3400 drives and 61" deck.

 

[thastinger]

Originally Posted by The_Eric
Well I went and looked at it over lunch and it's the S40. It comes with the ZT2800 hydro and according to the owner of the OPE dealer, has a bit lighter frame than it's bigger brothers (c-channel versus tube and a bolt on front end vs welded). Basically a "Pro-sumer" type mower. He's asking $4099 but with my wife's prior military service, could get $150 instant discount and a $150 prepaid card.



If it is new for 4100 bones then they have to save money somewhere I suppose. Back in 2013 my Ferris IS700 was considered "prosumer" but is is fully boxed and welded and weights 1500LBS...but it cost 6400 bones 5 years ago.

If you want something to last the rest of your life then get a fully boxed frame ZTR, otherwise the big box stores sell throw away ZTRs for a good bit less money...although not in a 72" deck.

You'll hate the 72" deck unless you have perfectly flat ground of 10 acres to mow. They scalp.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by The_Eric
Well I went and looked at it over lunch and it's the S40. It comes with the ZT2800 hydro and according to the owner of the OPE dealer, has a bit lighter frame than it's bigger brothers (c-channel versus tube and a bolt on front end vs welded). Basically a "Pro-sumer" type mower. He's asking $4099 but with my wife's prior military service, could get $150 instant discount and a $150 prepaid card.


Not a bad deal. I think I paid right around $2800 for my Cub Cadet Z-Force w/ ZT2800's, a 44" fab'd deck and 20hp V-twin Kohler Courage back in 2010. It was considered "prosumer" or "premium residential" grade at the time.