I always thought this was too long and they only did it because they pay for maintenance for the first 48,000 miles.
BMW Drops OCI to 10,000 miles.
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I was pretty surprised when my neighbor said the first oil change would be at 15K miles on his new 335i. That seemed way out there on a factory fill and I would be hard pressed to let it go that long if it was my car.
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
They have huge sumps.
They have huge sumps.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
Annual oil/filter changes are free on new BMWs, either leased or purchased, during the first 4 years.
Also, I'm pretty sure there is a penalty at the end of the lease if you didn't follow the minimum required maintenance, so I doubt many people would wait until 30K miles.
As far as being "too busy", I doubt that's the case either. You typically get a free loaner when your car is getting serviced, so your downtime is minimal.
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
Annual oil/filter changes are free on new BMWs, either leased or purchased, during the first 4 years.
Also, I'm pretty sure there is a penalty at the end of the lease if you didn't follow the minimum required maintenance, so I doubt many people would wait until 30K miles.
As far as being "too busy", I doubt that's the case either. You typically get a free loaner when your car is getting serviced, so your downtime is minimal.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
They have huge sumps.
6.9 quarts isn't huge IMO.
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
They have huge sumps.
6.9 quarts isn't huge IMO.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
Annual oil/filter changes are free on new BMWs, either leased or purchased, during the first 4 years.
Also, I'm pretty sure there is a penalty at the end of the lease if you didn't follow the minimum required maintenance, so I doubt many people would wait until 30K miles.
As far as being "too busy", I doubt that's the case either. You typically get a free loaner when your car is getting serviced, so your downtime is minimal.
I also do believe they charge a penalty if minimum required maintenance is not followed, especially considering this will disqualify the vehicles from Certified Pre-Owned eligibility. Having been in charge of making sure BMWs met their CPO requirements at a dealership, I can tell you lease trade ins are a huge supply of CPO vehicles. Even if some followed BMWs oil change requirements, some vehicles right on the edge of qualifying had to have their valve cover(s) removed to check cleanliness/condition per BMW USA in order to qualify. This was usually prohibitively expensive and therefore the vehicle was not sold as CPO.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I don't think BMWs have a problem going 15K miles on oil changes. It's the people that lease them and don't care about long term and change it *maybe* at 30K because they are too busy or can't afford the oil change.
Annual oil/filter changes are free on new BMWs, either leased or purchased, during the first 4 years.
Also, I'm pretty sure there is a penalty at the end of the lease if you didn't follow the minimum required maintenance, so I doubt many people would wait until 30K miles.
As far as being "too busy", I doubt that's the case either. You typically get a free loaner when your car is getting serviced, so your downtime is minimal.
I also do believe they charge a penalty if minimum required maintenance is not followed, especially considering this will disqualify the vehicles from Certified Pre-Owned eligibility. Having been in charge of making sure BMWs met their CPO requirements at a dealership, I can tell you lease trade ins are a huge supply of CPO vehicles. Even if some followed BMWs oil change requirements, some vehicles right on the edge of qualifying had to have their valve cover(s) removed to check cleanliness/condition per BMW USA in order to qualify. This was usually prohibitively expensive and therefore the vehicle was not sold as CPO.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: dparm
Don't forget that BMWs have historically had huge sumps and huge filters, so I don't think 15k was totally outrageous.
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
Ouch. That's rather compelling right there.
I can't believe a company with the sort of engineering expertise as BMW would recommend an OCI without some serious research and development behind it.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Don't forget that BMWs have historically had huge sumps and huge filters, so I don't think 15k was totally outrageous.
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
Ouch. That's rather compelling right there.
I can't believe a company with the sort of engineering expertise as BMW would recommend an OCI without some serious research and development behind it.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
I've got a few data points on my 530i as well. At 10K miles on GC, TBN was still above 4, but TAN was starting to creep up, so the lab (Wearcheck) recommended it was time for an oil change.
Then I had another UOA on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 at 6K miles where TBN was already down to 3.6 and TAN was already at 3.8. Again, the lab flagged the sample as "abnormal". This was over 16 months though (two winters), so the infrequent and sometimes short trips certainly played a role. However, the OLM was only down to about 60% at that point. Another words, it would have let me go about 15K miles under these somewhat severe conditions.
Alas, the OLM on the newer BMW utilizes a different logic (dielectric condition sensor), so maybe it's more accurate/realistic. In my old e39 it is strictly fuel consumption based.
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
I've got a few data points on my 530i as well. At 10K miles on GC, TBN was still above 4, but TAN was starting to creep up, so the lab (Wearcheck) recommended it was time for an oil change.
Then I had another UOA on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 at 6K miles where TBN was already down to 3.6 and TAN was already at 3.8. Again, the lab flagged the sample as "abnormal". This was over 16 months though (two winters), so the infrequent and sometimes short trips certainly played a role. However, the OLM was only down to about 60% at that point. Another words, it would have let me go about 15K miles under these somewhat severe conditions.
Alas, the OLM on the newer BMW utilizes a different logic (dielectric condition sensor), so maybe it's more accurate/realistic. In my old e39 it is strictly fuel consumption based.
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
I've got a few data points on my 530i as well. At 10K miles on GC, TBN was still above 4, but TAN was starting to creep up, so the lab (Wearcheck) recommended it was time for an oil change.
Then I had another UOA on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 at 6K miles where TBN was already down to 3.6 and TAN was already at 3.8. Again, the lab flagged the sample as "abnormal". This was over 16 months though (two winters), so the infrequent and sometimes short trips certainly played a role. However, the OLM was only down to about 60% at that point.
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
I have yet to reset it......... And I'm WELL into my Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 OCI at this point.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
I use an OCI of no more than 10k miles in my X3 2.5; used oil analysis of Mobil 1 0W-40, Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40, and T6 5W-40 consistently show the TBN to be below 1.0 by that mileage.
I've got a few data points on my 530i as well. At 10K miles on GC, TBN was still above 4, but TAN was starting to creep up, so the lab (Wearcheck) recommended it was time for an oil change.
Then I had another UOA on Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 at 6K miles where TBN was already down to 3.6 and TAN was already at 3.8. Again, the lab flagged the sample as "abnormal". This was over 16 months though (two winters), so the infrequent and sometimes short trips certainly played a role. However, the OLM was only down to about 60% at that point.
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
I have yet to reset it......... And I'm WELL into my Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 OCI at this point.
When you eventually do reset it, pay attention to the number that will display for a few seconds in the cluster (if you can make it out with your dead pixels.
). That's the total number of liters of fuel that the car is programmed to burn during 1 OCI. In my 530i it is 2375 liters. I'm curious what it is in your M.
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
When you eventually do reset it, pay attention to the number that will display for a few seconds in the cluster (if you can make it out with your dead pixels.
10W60 has not been dropped for any new M cars, A3/B4 BMW 5W30 has always been the std. fill for the new M5/M6/X5M/X6M/1M since 2012, M3 still calls for TWS though.
Originally Posted By: dparm
BMW also dropped the 10w60 oil requirement for the new M cars -- they can now use ACEA A3/B4.
Originally Posted By: dparm
BMW also dropped the 10w60 oil requirement for the new M cars -- they can now use ACEA A3/B4.
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
I have yet to reset it......... And I'm WELL into my Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40 OCI at this point.
When you eventually do reset it, pay attention to the number that will display for a few seconds in the cluster (if you can make it out with your dead pixels.
). That's the total number of liters of fuel that the car is programmed to burn during 1 OCI. In my 530i it is 2375 liters. I'm curious what it is in your M.
Yeah, reading it is going to be a problem, LOL!!!
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Speaking of the BMW OLM, mine STILL has two bars left
When you eventually do reset it, pay attention to the number that will display for a few seconds in the cluster (if you can make it out with your dead pixels.
Yeah, reading it is going to be a problem, LOL!!!
The question nobody seems to be asking is the "Why?". Why has BMW decided to make this change? The assumption seems to be that BMW is getting hosed with warranty claims due to oil-related failures. But there are a ton of pre-2014 BMWs out there that are still in warranty. According to BMW's SIB, they can safely go 15k oci's but the new ones can't? Why? Are the highways and byways of the U.S. littered with the carcasses of pre-2014 BMWs broken due to lube failure? For that matter, how about Europe?
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
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One of the reasons has got to be all BMWs are now turbo'ed. Maybe they are they are trying to get us back to the dealerships more often so they can sell more BMW t-shirts
Originally Posted By: m6pwr
The question nobody seems to be asking is the "Why?". Why has BMW decided to make this change? The assumption seems to be that BMW is getting hosed with warranty claims due to oil-related failures. But there are a ton of pre-2014 BMWs out there that are still in warranty. According to BMW's SIB, they can safely go 15k oci's but the new ones can't? Why? Are the highways and byways of the U.S. littered with the carcasses of pre-2014 BMWs broken due to lube failure? For that matter, how about Europe?
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
Originally Posted By: m6pwr
The question nobody seems to be asking is the "Why?". Why has BMW decided to make this change? The assumption seems to be that BMW is getting hosed with warranty claims due to oil-related failures. But there are a ton of pre-2014 BMWs out there that are still in warranty. According to BMW's SIB, they can safely go 15k oci's but the new ones can't? Why? Are the highways and byways of the U.S. littered with the carcasses of pre-2014 BMWs broken due to lube failure? For that matter, how about Europe?
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
FWIW, the new shortened oci's apply to 2014 model year BMWs produced after July 2013. Sorry if there was any confusion.
Another interesting thought is that BMW claims 1 qt every 750 miles is acceptable consumption. But during a 15000 mile interval, you could be adding 20+ quarts of oil.
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Originally Posted By: m6pwr
The question nobody seems to be asking is the "Why?". Why has BMW decided to make this change? The assumption seems to be that BMW is getting hosed with warranty claims due to oil-related failures. But there are a ton of pre-2014 BMWs out there that are still in warranty. According to BMW's SIB, they can safely go 15k oci's but the new ones can't? Why? Are the highways and byways of the U.S. littered with the carcasses of pre-2014 BMWs broken due to lube failure? For that matter, how about Europe?
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
Neighbor, let me try to give you an answer
I am originally from Europe, and I still have VW tdi there (actually it is Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi).
Simply, it is fuel. Fuel in the States still containes much more sulfur then in the Europe. Exception in Europe would be Russia, Ukraine, Moldova or Belarus. Other countries have much better fuel. My brother until recently drove BMW E60 525d (197hp) and OCI was at 30k, LL-04 oil.
Second, in Europe cars develope on much less scale issues that are very often in the U.S. Fuel dillution in di engines is not that big of an issue (actually when I asked one mechanic there he gave me very strange look) because of small amount of sulfur and high speeds on the roads. Same goes with carbon build up. For example, I am coming from Bosnia, and between my city and capitol Sarajevo there is like 30-40min drive on superb highway on par with German autobhan. Suffice to say, Skoda octavia rarely sees below 100mph on that stretch of highway. Same goes for various DI gasoline engines that usually use roads like that for figuring out what is max speed and can it go higher then previous time.
The U.S. roads (although I would not call San Diego roads as "roads," maybe "an attempt to replicate roads") with strict speed limits are killing machines that are made for speed. Same goes with this fuel that is just horrible (CA being little better).
Anyway, I try to stay with gas stations like Shell, Chevron, and on occasion car goes and sees desert and max speed (my way of fighting carbon issues).
So, BMW might figured out that new turbo engines have issues with fuel dillution or something like that.
Anyway, VW reccomends 10k OCI, I stay with 5k, using ONLY Castrol 0W30, and now since Amazon have again Pennzoil Ultra 5W40, I might use it in summer months.
The question nobody seems to be asking is the "Why?". Why has BMW decided to make this change? The assumption seems to be that BMW is getting hosed with warranty claims due to oil-related failures. But there are a ton of pre-2014 BMWs out there that are still in warranty. According to BMW's SIB, they can safely go 15k oci's but the new ones can't? Why? Are the highways and byways of the U.S. littered with the carcasses of pre-2014 BMWs broken due to lube failure? For that matter, how about Europe?
As for "huge" sumps on BMWs, the sump on my '09 VW TDI diesel is 4.4 liters, so 7 liter BMW sumps look pretty big to me; and the sump on my '13 M3 is 9 liters. Compared to the TDI that gets my vote as huge.
The funny thing is that the factory oci on the TDI in Europe is 18.6k (30k klms), but 10k mi in the U.S. Same engine, same oil (VW 507). I believe the same disparity holds true for many of the other VW/Audi models, and even the Porsche and Mercedes cars. Wonder why? According to posts on the TDI forum, diesel TDIs in commercial service in Europe (e.g. taxis) can go 31k (50k klms) between oil changes. I remember seeing a used oil analysis posted by a euro owner of a TDI used in some kind of courier service. The oil was run to 29k miles (not klms) and the used oil analysis looked fine except for 127 ppm iron - - which is still within limits.
Neighbor, let me try to give you an answer
I am originally from Europe, and I still have VW tdi there (actually it is Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi).
Simply, it is fuel. Fuel in the States still containes much more sulfur then in the Europe. Exception in Europe would be Russia, Ukraine, Moldova or Belarus. Other countries have much better fuel. My brother until recently drove BMW E60 525d (197hp) and OCI was at 30k, LL-04 oil.
Second, in Europe cars develope on much less scale issues that are very often in the U.S. Fuel dillution in di engines is not that big of an issue (actually when I asked one mechanic there he gave me very strange look) because of small amount of sulfur and high speeds on the roads. Same goes with carbon build up. For example, I am coming from Bosnia, and between my city and capitol Sarajevo there is like 30-40min drive on superb highway on par with German autobhan. Suffice to say, Skoda octavia rarely sees below 100mph on that stretch of highway. Same goes for various DI gasoline engines that usually use roads like that for figuring out what is max speed and can it go higher then previous time.
The U.S. roads (although I would not call San Diego roads as "roads," maybe "an attempt to replicate roads") with strict speed limits are killing machines that are made for speed. Same goes with this fuel that is just horrible (CA being little better).
Anyway, I try to stay with gas stations like Shell, Chevron, and on occasion car goes and sees desert and max speed
(my way of fighting carbon issues). So, BMW might figured out that new turbo engines have issues with fuel dillution or something like that.
Anyway, VW reccomends 10k OCI, I stay with 5k, using ONLY Castrol 0W30, and now since Amazon have again Pennzoil Ultra 5W40, I might use it in summer months.
FWIW 15k miles is the the highest. Fiat and Alfa Romeo have been recommending 30,000km OCIs for a while now on the specified Selenia Lubricants. Prior to that for a long time it was 20,000km. They even called the selected Selenia Lubricant "20K". These cars don't have large sumps, 6L max.
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Yes, sulfur and turbos are main reasons now.
Wonder what uoa will show on almost year old unknown oil in my 550i (prob BMW labeled castrol 5w30). It shows 900 miles left, so it was there for 14100 miles, or equivalent of it, if OLM is self adjusting.
Wonder what uoa will show on almost year old unknown oil in my 550i (prob BMW labeled castrol 5w30). It shows 900 miles left, so it was there for 14100 miles, or equivalent of it, if OLM is self adjusting.
Hi edyvw - Never thought of sulfur, but that may be part of it. And I have to say I agree with your comments about the roads here - - pretty rank. I really enjoyed watching the Tour de France because I couldn't help noticing the smooth roads. I suspect someone may say that is because they were specially prepped for the race, but I think not. I've driven some of those roads in the south of France and they were just like in the Tour. In the Pyrenees they virtually reconstruct and repave the roads each Spring. Smooth as a billiard table. But that's what you get when you pay taxes.
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