BMW CEO steps away after market loss

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by wag123



I don't think that the Model 3 is taking any of the RX450h market share, they are two vastly different vehicles.
Personally, between the two I would take the RX450h without hesitation.
Out of curiosity I took a close look at the Model 3 and was not impressed. IMO there won't be any market for used Model 3s in ten years so it would be a smart move to lease it if a person really wanted one.


My point was not about RX vs Model 3. It was about Model 3 creating a new market.
That new market does consume other markets, such as BMW, Lexus, etc. but as you say the RX is a different vehicle.

As an owner of both, I can tell you the Model 3 is light years ahead of the Lexus in terms of technology.
After driving the Tesla, I find the GS350 F Sport and RX450h cluttered...

Again, it was not so much of a comparison, it was about the allure many have of the Model 3.
They are both wonderful vehicles on top of their respective games.

I would be curious what you did not like about the Model 3?
Maybe I should start a post...

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I would be curious what you did not like about the Model 3?

The design, build quality, and price. I'm just not impressed.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I would be curious what you did not like about the Model 3?

The design, build quality, and price. I'm just not impressed.

Model 3 expensive? Heck yeah.
The build quality of our car is top notch.
Design is futuristic, especially interior.
The level of interior detail beats our RX450h.
Of course design is subjective.

Thanks for your response.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The build quality of our car is top notch.
Not the one that I looked at. To be fair, it was a very early production car.

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The build quality of our car is top notch.
Not the one that I looked at. To be fair, it was a very early production car.


I am impressed with Tesla because it takes a Dodge Demon on cheater slicks and 100 octane race gas to beat it in the quarter mile by less than a second... It also has a new Performance refresh. This for the sedan, but, if Tesla keeps it up, it is still a rich person's toy and not yet perfected, electric parasitic draw will always be there and I question how it can drive wherever with not a lot of charging stations (maybe in localized markets, maybe Central Ohio maybe L.A. maybe metro centers that are cool to the electric car as ideal for within their city limits) but where can it go if you can't charge it up. Takes 5 minutes or less to fill a tank on all but the very largest and most empty gas tanks......

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
The incumbents failure to respond to the market leader appropriately and with fud has completely changed the landscape.

Given the latest audis recall, and lack of relative efficiency (cant match 2012 teslas) the big guys are a long way away from even getting to par.
Oh... they can build coaches and ice engines - but the market has shifted.

The little new Tesla SUV will likely sweep the premium marketplace further.

UD







Ya, well we'll see how that goes in the future since the tax credit is about to if hasn't already expired.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Ya, well we'll see how that goes in the future since the tax credit is about to if hasn't already expired.


It has already dropped by half and demand hasn't slowed one bit.

Given the segments wide range of pricing with many much higher, I don't believe that Delta is a significant distraction for buyers of a car thats this expensive anyway.

 

[sloinker]

Can't speak to BMW but I can to MB/Audi and VW. If you are equipped to do your own maintenance and repairs, have a specialty tool/software budget then you can enjoy the superior drive/ride dynamics of these vehicles. Given the buy in costs of the MB and Audi you would think the clientele would religiously adhere to the maintenance through the dealer $$ or as some of us, do it ourselves. If you just want a vehicle that is plug and play with a yearly oil change then you probably wouldn't be a European car buyer in the first place. The world is changing fast and sadly the ICE days are numbered for personal vehicles. It will be interesting to see where Tesla stacks up in two decades as the cost of electric vehicles produced by the Chinese/Vietnamese/Indians for less than half the cost of a Tesla inundate or shores. If Tesla was smart they would be designing a 500 mile, $15000 entry level vehicle. That is where the market is heading imo.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?


BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by sloinker
Can't speak to BMW but I can to MB/Audi and VW. If you are equipped to do your own maintenance and repairs, have a specialty tool/software budget then you can enjoy the superior drive/ride dynamics of these vehicles. Given the buy in costs of the MB and Audi you would think the clientele would religiously adhere to the maintenance through the dealer $$ or as some of us, do it ourselves. If you just want a vehicle that is plug and play with a yearly oil change then you probably wouldn't be a European car buyer in the first place. The world is changing fast and sadly the ICE days are numbered for personal vehicles. It will be interesting to see where Tesla stacks up in two decades as the cost of electric vehicles produced by the Chinese/Vietnamese/Indians for less than half the cost of a Tesla inundate or shores. If Tesla was smart they would be designing a 500 mile, $15000 entry level vehicle. That is where the market is heading imo.


Tesla will begin to produce cars in China for export to the US.

 

[Mr Nice]

I'm no fan of Elon..... but I do have to agree Tesla is very innovative with their technologies.

 

[wings&wheels]

More CEO's, Chief Technology and Chief Product Officers should step aside or move to other roles when they are not successful….. In most industries, corporations need regular change at the senior levels...the market evolves and changes, so should the folks who have to predict it and deliver.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Ya, well we'll see how that goes in the future since the tax credit is about to if hasn't already expired.


It has already dropped by half and demand hasn't slowed one bit.

Given the segments wide range of pricing with many much higher, I don't believe that Delta is a significant distraction for buyers of a car thats this expensive anyway.





We'll see. July 1st was the biggest drop to less than $2k.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-models-set-to-ratchet-down-again-july-1

 

[4WD]

When one of my guys gets that first promotion - they seem to start looking at German cars. I tell them before you sign up a 5 year loan - get some idea what the vehicle will be worth in 5 years. Also that they need to get info on routine PM and repair costs once it is not covered.

Sometimes they wind up with a Mustang GT Premium and wait for the next promotion - sometimes not.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?


BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.




I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?


BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.




I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.

And Toyota is obsessed with building high quality vehicles.

 

[ffhdriver]

My BMW Z4 was trouble free for the four years I owned it. Just did regular maintenance.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted by skyactiv
It seems 90% of the time German autos are discussed on here the reliability factor is brought up.
My wife and I drove Japanese until she started making good money. She made $270K last year, I made $77K. No mortgage and zero debt.
Her Audi hasn't given her any trouble.


Do I have to remind you that actual owners of German cars have zero credibility on BITOG? The real experts haven't even sat in the cars they are disparaging.

 

[Eddie]

I have always admired BMW and now it appears that I can afford one, I find I can't just purchase an X3 without going through a real hassle because there are so many packages offered. Not one package has the normal (Japanese) offerings that includes that one expects. I end up with needing three expensive packages, each of the packages has many unwanted items. In the end, I would end up paying much more that one expects for the vehicle even though the base price appears low. Excellent engineering aside, you just can't get as many people to accept that kind of sales game as you could 20 or 30 years ago. Ed

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Eddie
I have always admired BMW and now it appears that I can afford one, I find I can't just purchase an X3 without going through a real hassle because there are so many packages offered. Not one package has the normal (Japanese) offerings that includes that one expects. I end up with needing three expensive packages, each of the packages has many unwanted items. In the end, I would end up paying much more that one expects for the vehicle even though the base price appears low. Excellent engineering aside, you just can't get as many people to accept that kind of sales game as you could 20 or 30 years ago. Ed


LOL. Now you know why initial owners lease them.