I stick to 25K full flush on my FJ Cruiser with AISIN synthetic WS compatible AFW+ fluid. With a oil cooler and Magnafine, I intend to keep the transmission running as good as new for long, best part AISIN fluid is less than half price of Toyota OEM WS ATF.
BMW ATF Lifetime Fluid
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Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You can use Maxlife with no problem, so you don't have to worry about that. The real issue is the stupid pan they used which has to be replaced! The ZF-brand ATF and the BMW-brand ATF are made by a third party, most likely Pento$in. Pentosin is known for their unreasonably-expensive fluids, usually for German cars. Expensive whether the label says ZF, BMW, or Pentosin on the bottle.
Shell makes a majority of the OEM ATFs for the German OEMs(ZF, Mercedes and Voith[which is used more for buses]). ZF Lifeguard 6 is also sold as Mercon SP, Mercedes uses Shell ATF 134 or 134FE. Lifeguard 8 and 9 are also Shell fluids, Lifeguard 5 is Esso LT71141.
Sure, use MaxLife - BITOG uses that like Frank's RedHot on everything and I'm guilty of it as well. But I feel "universal" ATFs aren't the end all be all. Stick to a OEM approved ATF on Euro transmissions. Unlike a Japanese or Korean tranny where you can get a low miles one from a wrecked car via LKQ or a wrecker, ZF/Benz units aren't cheap.
You can use Maxlife with no problem, so you don't have to worry about that. The real issue is the stupid pan they used which has to be replaced! The ZF-brand ATF and the BMW-brand ATF are made by a third party, most likely Pento$in. Pentosin is known for their unreasonably-expensive fluids, usually for German cars. Expensive whether the label says ZF, BMW, or Pentosin on the bottle.
Shell makes a majority of the OEM ATFs for the German OEMs(ZF, Mercedes and Voith[which is used more for buses]). ZF Lifeguard 6 is also sold as Mercon SP, Mercedes uses Shell ATF 134 or 134FE. Lifeguard 8 and 9 are also Shell fluids, Lifeguard 5 is Esso LT71141.
Sure, use MaxLife - BITOG uses that like Frank's RedHot on everything and I'm guilty of it as well. But I feel "universal" ATFs aren't the end all be all. Stick to a OEM approved ATF on Euro transmissions. Unlike a Japanese or Korean tranny where you can get a low miles one from a wrecked car via LKQ or a wrecker, ZF/Benz units aren't cheap.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You can use Maxlife with no problem, so you don't have to worry about that. The real issue is the stupid pan they used which has to be replaced! The ZF-brand ATF and the BMW-brand ATF are made by a third party, most likely Pento$in. Pentosin is known for their unreasonably-expensive fluids, usually for German cars. Expensive whether the label says ZF, BMW, or Pentosin on the bottle.
Shell makes a majority of the OEM ATFs for the German OEMs(ZF, Mercedes and Voith[which is used more for buses]). ZF Lifeguard 6 is also sold as Mercon SP, Mercedes uses Shell ATF 134 or 134FE. Lifeguard 8 and 9 are also Shell fluids, Lifeguard 5 is Esso LT71141.
Sure, use MaxLife - BITOG uses that like Frank's RedHot on everything and I'm guilty of it as well. But I feel "universal" ATFs aren't the end all be all. Stick to a OEM approved ATF on Euro transmissions. Unlike a Japanese or Korean tranny where you can get a low miles one from a wrecked car via LKQ or a wrecker, ZF/Benz units aren't cheap.
Hard data works better than feeling and results. Both show Maxlife ATF works well in ZF-6 and ZF-8 units. The ZF-8 has more calcium than Maxlife but everything else is in similar.
Originally Posted by slacktide_bitog
You can use Maxlife with no problem, so you don't have to worry about that. The real issue is the stupid pan they used which has to be replaced! The ZF-brand ATF and the BMW-brand ATF are made by a third party, most likely Pento$in. Pentosin is known for their unreasonably-expensive fluids, usually for German cars. Expensive whether the label says ZF, BMW, or Pentosin on the bottle.
Shell makes a majority of the OEM ATFs for the German OEMs(ZF, Mercedes and Voith[which is used more for buses]). ZF Lifeguard 6 is also sold as Mercon SP, Mercedes uses Shell ATF 134 or 134FE. Lifeguard 8 and 9 are also Shell fluids, Lifeguard 5 is Esso LT71141.
Sure, use MaxLife - BITOG uses that like Frank's RedHot on everything and I'm guilty of it as well. But I feel "universal" ATFs aren't the end all be all. Stick to a OEM approved ATF on Euro transmissions. Unlike a Japanese or Korean tranny where you can get a low miles one from a wrecked car via LKQ or a wrecker, ZF/Benz units aren't cheap.
Hard data works better than feeling and results. Both show Maxlife ATF works well in ZF-6 and ZF-8 units. The ZF-8 has more calcium than Maxlife but everything else is in similar.
Originally Posted by MaximaGuy
Originally Posted by edyvw
Can we get over with this nonsense how approvals are expensive? Average approval is around $3-5000 and no, it is not companies that change approvals often, it is fluid manufacturers that constantly change chemistry of fluid to save a buck. However, every time they change it they have to get approval.
The fact that Valvoline says it is suitable and NOT approved, means that Valvoline does not want to venture into "approved" territory, for whatever reasons.
Pl. let the audience know how getting a license would be the cost you have highlighted. I spoke to all 3 companies and they said it is an expensive exercise - if it was that cheap we should have T-IV/WS license # on these bottles right. Maybe you should call them and find out how much it costs.
I worked on approval process. But sure, company will tell you: no, it is our fluid that cannot get approved. What company refer is that developing oil is expensive, and meeting one approval process might mean that fluid is not going to be suitable for some other applications.
Toyota does not have approval process by the way.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Can we get over with this nonsense how approvals are expensive? Average approval is around $3-5000 and no, it is not companies that change approvals often, it is fluid manufacturers that constantly change chemistry of fluid to save a buck. However, every time they change it they have to get approval.
The fact that Valvoline says it is suitable and NOT approved, means that Valvoline does not want to venture into "approved" territory, for whatever reasons.
Pl. let the audience know how getting a license would be the cost you have highlighted. I spoke to all 3 companies and they said it is an expensive exercise - if it was that cheap we should have T-IV/WS license # on these bottles right. Maybe you should call them and find out how much it costs.
I worked on approval process. But sure, company will tell you: no, it is our fluid that cannot get approved. What company refer is that developing oil is expensive, and meeting one approval process might mean that fluid is not going to be suitable for some other applications.
Toyota does not have approval process by the way.
When they say - LIFETIME ATF - they mean WARRANTY LIFETIME. After that you're on your own.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
Originally Posted by dubber09
When they say - LIFETIME ATF - they mean WARRANTY LIFETIME. After that you're on your own.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
Actually there are ZF-8 UOA's showing the fluid to be in good condition beyond 100000 miles. Most ATF's are good to the 100000 mile range. Very few manufacturers have 100000 mile warranty.
When they say - LIFETIME ATF - they mean WARRANTY LIFETIME. After that you're on your own.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
Actually there are ZF-8 UOA's showing the fluid to be in good condition beyond 100000 miles. Most ATF's are good to the 100000 mile range. Very few manufacturers have 100000 mile warranty.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by dubber09
When they say - LIFETIME ATF - they mean WARRANTY LIFETIME. After that you're on your own.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
Actually there are ZF-8 UOA's showing the fluid to be in good condition beyond 100000 miles. Most ATF's are good to the 100000 mile range. Very few manufacturers have 100000 mile warranty.
Actually, BMW in many cases covers failed transmission or engine before or at 100k. Their CPO was for a long time 100k.
Originally Posted by dubber09
When they say - LIFETIME ATF - they mean WARRANTY LIFETIME. After that you're on your own.
If one wants to run a car beyond warranty duration they'd better start maintaining the car DURING said warranty period.
Actually there are ZF-8 UOA's showing the fluid to be in good condition beyond 100000 miles. Most ATF's are good to the 100000 mile range. Very few manufacturers have 100000 mile warranty.
Actually, BMW in many cases covers failed transmission or engine before or at 100k. Their CPO was for a long time 100k.
The lifetime fluid in a family members 98 C230 got them to 256,000 miles before the transmission failed. By then, the car was 15 years old and pretty used up. Window lifts were shot. Rear view mirror adjust motor drives shot. LCD dash displays had mostly failed leaving radio and HVAC controls indecipherable. Headliner sagging. On it's 3rd AC compressor. Seems to me like MB had it pegged just about right. The tranmission fluid lasted for the useful lifetime of the car.
Regarding a certain brand getting OEM approvals- seems like the OEMs require certain viscosity profiles, etc, to play nice with the mechanicals and firmware to guarantee factory performance & tuning (drivability, etc). Some of these multi-brand fluids seem to split the difference, especially with viscosity, to be usable across different brands and transmissions. The Redline D6 specs seem to do that. Perhaps that doesn't allow them to pass the more strict OEM approval specs, but still is a perfectly fine fluid if you don't mind deviating from the factory drivability metrics slightly (or more than slightly).
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