Typically it's the muchtoos****y engines found in the Chrysler minivans, but there have been others. I forget what the most recent example was but it stunk so bad I wished Virginia DEQ had a hotline to report it.
Biggest POS engine
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Typically it's the muchtoos****y engines found in the Chrysler minivans, but there have been others. I forget what the most recent example was but it stunk so bad I wished Virginia DEQ had a hotline to report it.
Familiarity breeds contempt. To be fair that engine contributed mightily to my new house and 401K. The 3.8 kept me busy during slow winter months. Don't forget FoMoCo decided to slap a supercharger on it to give us the TBird/Cougar SC.
The PRV V6 has a special place in my heart. I got to do water pumps in both a Volvo and a DeLorean with that engine. BTW, if the topic was "biggest POS cars" instead of "biggest POS engines", the DeLorean would get my vote. Hard to beat the combination of high cost, amazing unreliability, and sluglike performance combined into one stainless steel package. Special props to Lucas for another fine electrical system design.
Quad4, yes, it can crack a head faster than any other engine out there.
Iron Duke, at least you never had to worry about mysterious oil consumption problems. There was nothing mysterious about where the oil leaks were on that engine.
Last but not least the little 4 banger in the Renault Le Car. Thank you for making an engine where the cylinder sleeves like to come out when you pull the head.
Let's put another spin on this, as someone alluded to earlier in the thread.
Rather than anecdotal examples of bad engines, which most of us can come up with, which ones have the worst history, e.g. via recalls, rebuilds, failures, whatever. Something with documented, repeated failures?
Rather than anecdotal examples of bad engines, which most of us can come up with, which ones have the worst history, e.g. via recalls, rebuilds, failures, whatever. Something with documented, repeated failures?
^ In that case the mid 90's 3.8. Had an extended warranty put on them by Ford for the head gaskets. These engines were one of the most likely to strand you cause they could blow a gasket so quickly.
In the 1970's Ford had the 351M and 400M. Lots of these engines had defective blocks that cracked and let coolant into the oil. Lots of bottom ends went out on those p.o.s's.
If you got one that the block didn't crack in they could last a long time otherwise.
1980's Caddy engines with aluminum blocks had oil consumption problems, tons were reringed under warranty.
Almost all Mitsubishi engines. They still don't seem to know how to build an engine. I see lots of post 2000 Intrepid's and Sebrings with the 2.7L Mitsu engine smoking blue out the tailpipe. They have to burn oil for quite some time to ruin the catalyst before the oil actually shows up out the tailpipe.
These are some of the main ones that come to my mind right away.
In the 1970's Ford had the 351M and 400M. Lots of these engines had defective blocks that cracked and let coolant into the oil. Lots of bottom ends went out on those p.o.s's.
If you got one that the block didn't crack in they could last a long time otherwise.
1980's Caddy engines with aluminum blocks had oil consumption problems, tons were reringed under warranty.
Almost all Mitsubishi engines. They still don't seem to know how to build an engine. I see lots of post 2000 Intrepid's and Sebrings with the 2.7L Mitsu engine smoking blue out the tailpipe. They have to burn oil for quite some time to ruin the catalyst before the oil actually shows up out the tailpipe.
These are some of the main ones that come to my mind right away.
The new Hyundai 2.0 motors they are garbage. I know of three people who have had Timing Belts go with in 30K miles. All three were told by the dealer to get rid of the car. Since no noticeable damage was involved Hyundai would not pay to have the heads removed. Because of this there was no way to make sure there was no damage to the head unit or pistons.
Caddy engines with aluminum blocks weren't very good cause of oil consumption and leaks whether or not it was a 4-6-8 engine but they didn't tend to fail or blow up like some of the worst POS's did. The OLDS V8 350 diesel conversion was apparently fixed in the later versions due to better head bolts, beefier parts, etc. but the reputation damage was done. Now those engine blocks are used by Oldsmobile drag races for all out drag cars since they will take so much abuse in a gas application.
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Did we all forget about the Chevy Vega 4 Cyl.
What new Hyundai 2.0L engines? It's the same bulletproof motor since 1997, just revised every couple years. My 1998 Tiburon has been bulletproof to me and it's the first generation 2.0L.
Can't believe I left out the Caddy HT4100 and the Ford "M" series. Two cluster..... if there ever were.
4.2L I-6 in a Trailblazer EXT.
No torque, no power, no fuel economy.
No torque, no power, no fuel economy.
The 4-6-8 was not an aluminium block. It was based on the old iron V8 that first came out in 1968 as a 472. It actually displaced 368 ci, and was not a bad engine. It was just multi-displacement part of the engine that was the problem. Cadillac actually built the 368 up until 1985, but it was only available in the commercial chassis, since the 4.1L was too underpowered to move a hearse/limo. It was available in these years as a regular V8 with a carburetor, and it was a decent engine.
The 4.1L on the other hand was a POS. Tons of problems with the block design. I have not seen too many of these engines go over 100K miles, without being rebuilt. On top of that they were very low powered.
Someone made mention of the 351M and 400 Ford, which is actually part of the 335 series Ford V8 family. The 335 series included the 351C, 351M, and the 400. The 351C came out in 1970, and of course is a highly respected engine. THe 400 (not M, just 400) came out in 1971 to replace the 390. It was based on the 351C block, but the deck height was taller, the main journals increased from 2.75" to 3.00", and the 400 used the big block 429/460 bell housing bolt pattern.
The 351C was produced until 1974, and many of these engines were non-high performance run of the mill engines (just because it's a 351C doesn't mean it's hipo). Then in 1975 Ford decided to develop the 351M to save on costs. Esentially the 351M was a 400 Ford destroked, with all other parts the same. So unlike the 351C, the 400 and 351M shared almost all parts. This only made sense since it was a cost savings measure for Ford.
Now the reason these engines have a bad reputation is two fold. One, the 351M was only a smogger motor, bogged down with primitive smog controls that often failed and caused drivability problems. There was no HiPo 351M, like there was of the 351C. Many, in fact probably most, 351C's were run of the mill engines that made little power and were certainly nothing more than run of the mill. However, everyone remembers the awesome 351C and all 351C's are good motors.
The second problem was that there was a run of blocks in the mid 1970's cast at the Michigan plant that were prone to cracking due to casting problems. All blocks made in the cleveland plant were fine (351M and 400's were also made there).
In short, I do think that the 351M and 400 are probably one of the most underated engines around. I currently have a 400 Ford in one of my vehicles, and it is by far the best Ford V8 I have owned (I have had Ford small and Big Blocks, but no FE series). They are also very popular with the fullsize bronco crowd, and can be built very cheaply to make a lot of horsepower and torque.
1977 Dodge Aspen 318 v8
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Did we all forget about the Chevy Vega 4 Cyl.
No actually several of us mentioned it already.
Almost all Hyundais sold here have life of 80,000km and no more, some even earlier than that, most break their belts early,top end goes first, then the cylinder wall, only the Terracan seems to do better but thats sold in way less numbers so can't be an indicator really.
Oldswagon, you seem to know your Ford engines. I don't know the details like you, but I know when I was a youngster, we had both a 351W and a 351C and to my knowledge, both were outstanding engines for us. What was the difference in the Windsor version? I was told it was based on an up-stroked 302 block?
My Father bought my Mother a new El Dorado with the 4-6-8 V8 when they first came out. They disabled the 4-6-8 feature somehow early on, and I don't recall there being any other issues with the engine. She passed away a couple of years after he bought it, and the car went in storage until he died in 2003. I took it out of storage, and then sold it a couple of years after he died. The car ran fine.
Based on my experience with the Cadillac 4-6-8, admittedly minimal, the tales of woe surrounding this engine are greatly exaggerated.
I have no comment on the gas-diesel conversion - I've never owned one.
punisher, one of my customers has a delorean. I agree it's a dog but they can be made reliable. Just takes a lot of work on every system. And yeah, how bout those water pumps on PRVs? What a nightmare. I find the best way is to leave the injection unit on and pull the manifold with everything together. The PRV seems to be a pretty stout engine by itself as long as it's a B28 without the camshaft problem.
On another note anyone have an opinion of the Corvair motor? It was my first car. Been so long I don't remember if it gave me any grief.
On another note anyone have an opinion of the Corvair motor? It was my first car. Been so long I don't remember if it gave me any grief.
there you go again, your anti-korean product remarks. There's 1.1 billion people in India, i see that you met all of the Hyundai owners there.
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