Big home speakers

[youdontwannaknow]

cujet, what is your budget ? If I had the money I'd go with B&W CM series (not their entry level 680 series though - not worth the money) or anything from Dynaudio. Good stuff.
If thats way above your bduget then have you heard Def Tech and Paradigm ? Polk RTi stuff is ok but their lower end stuff is [censored].

btw, I know what you are saying about big speaker sound but dont underestimate the amount of bass some bookshelf speakers can deliver. I was in for a surprise when I heard the B&W CM5 and Dynaudio (cant remember the model now) for the first time.
The Usher bookshelf (Partsexpress Kit) that I am using right now would put many a floorstanders to shame for the unbelievable quality and quantity of bass that little 7" driver can spit out.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow

btw, I know what you are saying about big speaker sound but dont underestimate the amount of bass some bookshelf speakers can deliver.

This, by the way, is highly room-dependent. In small rooms, some bookshelf speakers can indeed deliver respectable bass. In a larger room, not so much.

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow

btw, I know what you are saying about big speaker sound but dont underestimate the amount of bass some bookshelf speakers can deliver.

This, by the way, is highly room-dependent. In small rooms, some bookshelf speakers can indeed deliver respectable bass. In a larger room, not so much.

Yup. Also depends as to your definition of a "small" or "larger" room. I do fondly remember the first time I ever heard the Wharfdale Diamonds. With the right electronics they were pretty nice.

Don't know about this East Coast vs West Coast sound but I've always been partial to tube electronics and British speakers. Prefer the warmth sound they provided.

 

[Errtt]

I have various speakers from little JBL L20Ts, to Polks RT55i, to Klipsch RF3, Fortes, KG.2s, to Maggies, and about 11 pairs of others in between. You don't want to know how many receivers, separates, tube amps etc. Another hobby out of control - like vintage stuff

 

[jkhawaii]

Cerwin Vega XLS-215s!! I would get the 12's myself though, the 215 is to large for my room

 

[youdontwannaknow]

Originally Posted By: JavierG
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow

btw, I know what you are saying about big speaker sound but dont underestimate the amount of bass some bookshelf speakers can deliver.

This, by the way, is highly room-dependent. In small rooms, some bookshelf speakers can indeed deliver respectable bass. In a larger room, not so much.

Yup. Also depends as to your definition of a "small" or "larger" room. .


You cant just generalize large room=large speakers. Unless you are talking about hall/theatre "large" and really long listening distances. This would not apply to a typical large "home" room. Afterall it all boils down to the spl reaching the listeners ears. 89db/1m @ 40hz is 89db/1m @ 40hz, it doesn't matter whether its being produced by a large speaker or small, in a large room or small.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow

You cant just generalize large room=large speakers. Unless you are talking about hall/theatre "large" and really long listening distances. This would not apply to a typical large "home" room. Afterall it all boils down to the spl reaching the listeners ears. 89db/1m @ 40hz is 89db/1m @ 40hz, it doesn't matter whether its being produced by a large speaker or small, in a large room or small.

You seem to be forgetting that bass/low frequency waves interact with the surrounding walls/barriers in a certain way. In small rooms there is more interaction which usually enhances the low end frequencies. In larger room (not hall/theater large), it is less so. At least that has been my experience.

For example, I had a pair of Monitor Audio B2 bookshelf speakers (one 6.5" driver). In a small living room (12x15x8ft) they were delivering very good bass response (for music at least). Once I moved to a somewhat larger room (15x25x8ft) that was also open to the kitchen, the bass became practically nonexistent. It took a sizable sub to get some bass in that room.

Another example: a pair of floor standing Jamo C607 (three 6" drivers). In my office, which is a fairly small room, there is plenty of bass. When I take them to the basement, it's all gone. I had to add 2 subwoofers down there, and I could still use more. Alas, the basement has concrete unfinished walls, so that is a nightmare from an acoustics standpoint.

 

[youdontwannaknow]

Have you heard something called "room nodes" and "bass nulls" ?

The very phenomenon you are claiming increases bass also decreases bass. Depending on the dimensions of the room certain frequencies will accentuate and some will cancel out and nullify. Chances are the frequencies in the small room are in the range that resonates and amplifies, but in the large room those frequencies cancel out. (hint: bare walls in symmetrical shape).

Also, have you heard of something called "baffle step compensation" ? Distance from the wall makes an appreciable difference in perceived bass.
And if your speakers are ported you might want to check port distance from surrounding surfaces also.

All these factors are far more likely and have a greater impact on the bass than a space difference between a living room and a basement.

 

[JavierG]

Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have various speakers from little JBL L20Ts, to Polks RT55i, to Klipsch RF3, Fortes, KG.2s, to Maggies, and about 11 pairs of others in between. You don't want to know how many receivers, separates, tube amps etc. Another hobby out of control - like vintage stuff

I hear that. That was actually my first hobby before I got my drivers license. It's still my passion. Even more expensive than my car hobby though. At least I still have my hearing. Then again I'm only in my late forties.

 

[handyman]

I have a pair of Klipsch horns. Is that big enough for you?

 

[Cujet]

Budget is limited. I suppose I could do $1,500. However, I'm not at all convinced that high cost translates into the sound I want.

The room is 15 x 20, with an 11 foot ceiling and open at one end, into a "great room" style house. So, my current 6.5" D'appolito style speakers do not produce the punch I want. They were much better in a small "den" style room.

 

[SteveSRT8]

be careful with speakers. Sound is VERY personal, and many spend tons buying what they read was good.

I listen to them first. Then decide.

BTW, I used to have some old Pioneer HPM-100's that actually sounded very nice. Cheap as heck, but did me just fine for years.

These days I like the micro speakers and a hidden sub. You can position the small ones very precisely for a nice image and yet still rock the house when you want.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
So, my current 6.5" D'appolito style speakers do not produce the punch I want. They were much better in a small "den" style room.

Some questions: What drivers are used in this MTM? Do you know the sensitivity at 1W/1M? Sealed or vented? Stand mounted or on a shelf? If former, how far out from rear/side walls? What kind of music do you listen to? Lacking punch in what octave(s)? Room surfaces?

Two of your room dimensions are multiples. The third is very close!

 

[Cujet]

Some questions: What drivers are used in this MTM? They are DIY speakers. The drivers are Daton, from Parts Express. DC160-8

Do you know the sensitivity at 1W/1M? 88

Sealed or vented? Vented

Stand mounted or on a shelf? Near the corners, on top of my subs.

If former, how far out from rear/side walls? 1 foot.

What kind of music do you listen to? Rock! Plus movies and some classical.

Lacking punch in what octave(s)? Obviously, the bass response rolls off below about 60HZ. But, these speakers are too small to produce concert levels in my house. So, drums are not felt. Quite simply, they sound like small speakers. The subs only provide low bass and not punch.

Room surfaces? Painted walls, tile floor. With area rug.

Two of your room dimensions are multiples. The third is very close!

 

[sleddriver]

While familiar with the name, I'm not sure of the quality of Daton's drivers, nor what type of XO PE supplied. One of the benefits of a properly designed MTM is a +6dB sensitivity increase. Emphasis on properly designed though. You may need more amp depending on the impedance curve. Also, the tweeters need to be at ear height when you sit.

Re: Bass. What type of sub is this? Driver dia? Single or twin? One sub or two? vented or sealed? If your sub is truly rolling off around 60Hz, you're missing the lowest 1-1/2 octaves (20Hz - 60Hz) of bass. You need a sub capable of playing with authority and minimal distorsion down there, not gasping for air. It also needs a smooth response in the upper third octave (~ 160Hz) to smoothly transition to your MTM's. Likewise, your MTM's need a high pass filter on their low end to take the load off.

Given your comment that 'drums are not felt', leads me to believe something is either wrong with your subs, or you need better/bigger/multiple subs or there is a deep null in the XO region between your MTM's & subs. If your subs are old, check the surrounds for rotting foam. (Check anyway).

If you truly, TRULY, want 'concert levels' in your house, AND you like rock music, then you need a commercial grade loudspeaker with much higher sensitivity backed up by a true pro-sound amp. But your ears will grow tired of it rather quickly.

If I remember correctly, your room is only 15' x 20'. That's not very big. And 6.5" drivers in an MTM is not a small speaker. If you built these yourself and stuffed the box with foam, you can easily kill a bass-reflex design. Foam should line the walls only, and then only 1" or maybe 1.25" foam at that.

Then again if concert level is what you desire, those speakers are way out of their league! As is I can only diagnose so much from a distance over the net. Good luck!

 

[JOD]

If your (or someone closer to CA) is in need of a set of HT or audio speakers to fill a good-sized room, you are never going to get a better deal than these:

http://palmsprings.craigslist.org/ele/2625539507.html

I'm a DIY speaker guy as well, but for floor-standers I can honestly say that the only thing I've heard that I liked better were a set of Orions. They're a little more sensitive to placement than some, but besides that this is an amazing set of speakers, and that's a great price. They sound better on the stands, which unfortunately he's not including--and the light oak color isn't my fav, but besides that you can't go wrong.

These were an unbelievable deal at $1K when they first came out; at $250.00 this is a total steal. I'd say they'd be well-worth the price even if you paid truck shipping on them.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Snell is a very quality speaker, if I'm in market for a pair I would jump on this.

 

[aquariuscsm]

If you have the time/money/resources,building your own speakers is the only way to go. I built mine back in `85. Used solid stock walnut on 2x2 frames. 15 inch Frazier woofers,Electro Voice 1624M midrange horns,and Electro Voice t-350 tweeter horns. We build the enclosures "around" the woofers,making sure they had the exact cubic feet of inside air space,then completely sealed them (they`re acoustic suspension enclosures). Stained and laquered the exteriors. They look like antique furniture and strong enough to drive a truck upon.

The only pre-made speakers I`ve ever heard that I thought sounded AMAZING,were the North American Sound "Studio Monitors",which were essentially home made. You had to pre order them and they`d build them for you,and the Realistic Mach One`s (these are definitely "sleeper" speakers.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
If you have the time/money/resources,building your own speakers is the only way to go.


I am afraid of that... Anything I can afford is too small!!!

 

[aquariuscsm]

Anyone ever hear of these speakers called Maverick Audio? I remember reading about them in Audio magazine back in the mid-80s. They were called "concrete horns" and cost $75,000 a pair! What in the heck were they? I`ve never seen them or even a picture of them.