Well, I made a decision. I went ahead and picked up a bunch of Motocraft FL-400S filters from local Wal-Mart (WIX 51516 is the equivalent). These are the ones prior to the recent downsizing. My thought process? My wife has a '00 Ford Focus SOHC that is spec'd specifically for them... so I can get double use out of them with her car + my car. These filters were spec'd for the 2.3L version of my engine until 2004 when they went to the smaller can. I figure for $3.67, I've read all the good word on them... plus they give the silicon ADV and "wix style" bypass. If they don't work well on my car, then hey, they work great on hers! LOL.
Beta ratios ... help me understand!!
- Thread starter sdude2k2000
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I'd like to know where you find the beta ratios?? I looked up a Wix 51042 and there is no beta ratio information listed (only something called a nominal micron rating, which I understand is 50%):
Part Number: 51042
UPC Number: 765809510425
Principal Application: Various GM Cars & Trucks (75-76) (96-10)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.404
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 13/16-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 320
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Part Number: 51042
UPC Number: 765809510425
Principal Application: Various GM Cars & Trucks (75-76) (96-10)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.404
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 13/16-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 320
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
Yeah, not all of the Beta Ratio's are listed on their website unfortunately.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
2/20=21/37 says
Beta Ratio of 2 (50%) for 21 micron = Nominal (50%)is 21 micron
Beta Ratio of 20 (95%) for 37 micron
Yes it is kind of a goofy way of presenting it. Numerator matched to numerator and denominatior to denominator. They could have made it easier or more intuitive. I have always thought that it might be better just to pick a particle size, say 20 micron and give me a % capture. Better yet give capture rate (%) for 5, 10, and 20 micron particles and stamp it on the filter box. That'll never happen.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
2/20=21/37 says
Beta Ratio of 2 (50%) for 21 micron = Nominal (50%)is 21 micron
Beta Ratio of 20 (95%) for 37 micron
Yes it is kind of a goofy way of presenting it. Numerator matched to numerator and denominatior to denominator. They could have made it easier or more intuitive. I have always thought that it might be better just to pick a particle size, say 20 micron and give me a % capture. Better yet give capture rate (%) for 5, 10, and 20 micron particles and stamp it on the filter box. That'll never happen.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have always thought that it might be better just to pick a particle size, say 20 micron and give me a % capture. Better yet give capture rate (%) for 5, 10, and 20 micron particles and stamp it on the filter box. That'll never happen.
Yes, that would be great of all filter manufactures used something like that as a standard and showed the info on the box. I agree, it will probably never happen as some manufactures probably don't want you to know.
I have always thought that it might be better just to pick a particle size, say 20 micron and give me a % capture. Better yet give capture rate (%) for 5, 10, and 20 micron particles and stamp it on the filter box. That'll never happen.
Yes, that would be great of all filter manufactures used something like that as a standard and showed the info on the box. I agree, it will probably never happen as some manufactures probably don't want you to know.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
2/20=21/37 says
Beta Ratio of 2 (50%) for 21 micron = Nominal (50%)is 21 micron
Beta Ratio of 20 (95%) for 37 micron
Yes it is kind of a goofy way of presenting it. Numerator matched to numerator and denominatior to denominator. They could have made it easier or more intuitive.
Doesn't hold true for the WIX below ... it's shpwing 14 microns at Beta = 2 (50%).
WIX 51516
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=14/31
Burst Pressure-PSI: 275
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I have noticed that the Wix and NAPA web sites list both the Beta Ratios and nominal filtration for some part numbers and just nominal for others. Don't know why. Maybe the web site needs to be updated or maybe they only run Beta Ratio tests on certain part numbers. Yes nominal is Beta 2, 50% for the micron number listed.
If true, why do the filters listed at the thread beginning have the same nominal number (21) but different beta ratios?
2/20=21/37 says
Beta Ratio of 2 (50%) for 21 micron = Nominal (50%)is 21 micron
Beta Ratio of 20 (95%) for 37 micron
Yes it is kind of a goofy way of presenting it. Numerator matched to numerator and denominatior to denominator. They could have made it easier or more intuitive.
Doesn't hold true for the WIX below ... it's shpwing 14 microns at Beta = 2 (50%).
WIX 51516
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=14/31
Burst Pressure-PSI: 275
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Good one! I've said it several times here, I can't figure out why someone with great products and has glass enhanced media shows these Beta Ratios. I think the data on the web site must be both outdated (average filtration numbers and still listing media as paper) and has some errors. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Didn't notice the nominal on that one. Can't explain that.
They are all mixed up. I really think their beta info is outdated on that site.
Now they have a synthetic blend media I believe, and the betas listed are still the same as forever. Yet in my test runs, the current media filters way better that the website info suggests.
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Good one! I've said it several times here, I can't figure out why someone with great products and has glass enhanced media shows these Beta Ratios. I think the data on the web site must be both outdated (average filtration numbers and still listing media as paper) and has some errors. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Probably can't. Heck I couldn't either until Gary Allan and all you guys here 'splained it to me.
I think we should all barrage WIX with emails requesting they fix their numbers?
They probable figure nobody can read Beta Ratios anyway.
Probably can't. Heck I couldn't either until Gary Allan and all you guys here 'splained it to me.
I think we should all barrage WIX with emails requesting they fix their numbers?
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Originally Posted By: river_rat
Ya. I think I like your version better now you describe it that way.
Well, the way you're both talking you're changing out an almost entirely empty filter when you do an oil change. If true ..then it kinda makes the notion of an ADBV being there to keep the filter full "untrue" in your case(s), wouldn't you say??
Or am I to imagine that your filters act like a ..what is that air pressurized pre/post luber ??..you know ..where the air bubble compresses to equalization with the incoming pressure ..then pushes the oil out when the pressure drops??
Accusump??
Ya. I think I like your version better now you describe it that way.
Well, the way you're both talking you're changing out an almost entirely empty filter when you do an oil change. If true ..then it kinda makes the notion of an ADBV being there to keep the filter full "untrue" in your case(s), wouldn't you say??
Or am I to imagine that your filters act like a ..what is that air pressurized pre/post luber ??..you know ..where the air bubble compresses to equalization with the incoming pressure ..then pushes the oil out when the pressure drops??
Accusump??
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Ya. I think I like your version better now you describe it that way.
Well, the way you're both talking you're changing out an almost entirely empty filter when you do an oil change. If true ..then it kinda makes the notion of an ADBV being there to keep the filter full "untrue" in your case(s), wouldn't you say??
Or am I to imagine that your filters act like a ..what is that air pressurized pre/post luber ??..you know ..where the air bubble compresses to equalization with the incoming pressure ..then pushes the oil out when the pressure drops??
Accusump??
No ... we are talking about starting an engine AFTER a new oil filter has been installed, and how the incoming oil would rush through the can and push all the air out of the filter within a couple of seconds after start up.
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Ya. I think I like your version better now you describe it that way.
Well, the way you're both talking you're changing out an almost entirely empty filter when you do an oil change. If true ..then it kinda makes the notion of an ADBV being there to keep the filter full "untrue" in your case(s), wouldn't you say??
Or am I to imagine that your filters act like a ..what is that air pressurized pre/post luber ??..you know ..where the air bubble compresses to equalization with the incoming pressure ..then pushes the oil out when the pressure drops??
Accusump??
No ... we are talking about starting an engine AFTER a new oil filter has been installed, and how the incoming oil would rush through the can and push all the air out of the filter within a couple of seconds after start up.
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..but do you get a major bath upon removal??? (imagine a Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. "Hmmmm?" after it - for those who even know whom Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. is)
I mean ..one would reason that empty (almost) is empty.
That said, I had my MEGA cotton wound canister bypass filter "pass gas" as it filled up. It pushed its way through.
I mean ..one would reason that empty (almost) is empty.
That said, I had my MEGA cotton wound canister bypass filter "pass gas" as it filled up. It pushed its way through.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
..but do you get a major bath upon removal??? (imagine a Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. "Hmmmm?" after it - for those who even know whom Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. is)
I mean ..one would reason that empty (almost) is empty.
That said, I had my MEGA cotton wound canister bypass filter "pass gas" as it filled up. It pushed its way through.
I don't know what your getting at
, but no I don't "get a major bath upon removal" because I punch a hole in the top of the filter and let it drain over night before removing it. Now if I don't do the hole punch trick, then yes oil pukes all over the place.
..but do you get a major bath upon removal??? (imagine a Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. "Hmmmm?" after it - for those who even know whom Wm. F. Buckley, Jr. is)
I mean ..one would reason that empty (almost) is empty.
That said, I had my MEGA cotton wound canister bypass filter "pass gas" as it filled up. It pushed its way through.
I don't know what your getting at
I was talking about start-ups with an in-use filter--not necessarily a brand-new-post-oil-change filter.
My thoughts are that...
1. ...when the engine cranks and fires up, the oil is coming from the pump at some pressure (up to a max determined by the relief.)
2. The filter has drained out overnight ( or longer) through the outlet into the engine by gravity. The media is still saturated of course, and there may be something of a column of oil between the outside of the media and the can because of vacuum.
3. The oil hits the filter on start-up, and instead of filling the filter completely, and replacing all the drained out oil, before any get to the engine...oil blows through the filter media and fall into the engine along with air until the filter is full of oil.
That's what I was trying to say originally--that the bearings are not starved until all air is out of the empty filter.
My thoughts are that...
1. ...when the engine cranks and fires up, the oil is coming from the pump at some pressure (up to a max determined by the relief.)
2. The filter has drained out overnight ( or longer) through the outlet into the engine by gravity. The media is still saturated of course, and there may be something of a column of oil between the outside of the media and the can because of vacuum.
3. The oil hits the filter on start-up, and instead of filling the filter completely, and replacing all the drained out oil, before any get to the engine...oil blows through the filter media and fall into the engine along with air until the filter is full of oil.
That's what I was trying to say originally--that the bearings are not starved until all air is out of the empty filter.
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I understand what you were trying to say. I was introducing another ancillary topic about ADBV's. Obviously yours cannot serve to keep the filter full. Not a snowball chance in July. You don't need one since it cannot in any way serve that purpose.
Then why is it there?? (
)
Then why is it there?? (
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