Beta ratios ... help me understand!!

[sdude2k2000]

OK... pardon my ignorance. I've used the search function, not gotten my question answered. I've googled, too much scientific / mathematic talk for my understanding...

In layman terms... HOW on earth do you decipher a beta ratio??? Example... I'm looking at WIX's posted ratio's for my '06 Mazda MX-5, and it says they are 2/20=21/37.

Next question, how does this compare to a PureONE (which even in the large thread that was posted, I still couldn't understand...)

PLZ HALP!

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
2/20=21/37


2/20 = 21/37

1/2 of particles 21 microns in diameter are not caught in the filter and show up downstream.

and only 1/20 of the particles 37 microns in diameter are not caught by the filter (because they're bigger and catch in the media easier).

In this case the manufacturer could choose to rate the filter as 95% efficient at 37 microns--because 1/20 of the particles getting through is the same as 95% of them being caught.

 

[sdude2k2000]

JUST the man I was hoping would respond.

THANK YOU.

......now that doesn't sound too good all things considered. Ugh. I recently made a switch from an Amsoil filter to a PureONE (less $$$ considering I don't do extended OCI's), and I get some nice startup clatter when I first startup in the morning. Was going to switch to another filter after this OCI and just like many others on this forum, was trying to find the best one for my application. It looks as if WIX may not be the right choice.

 

[ZZman]

2=50%
4=75%
20=95%
75=97.5%
200=99.5%
1000=99.9%

So in your example 50% of partcles 21 microns and bigger are caught. Then 95% of particles 37 microns and bigger are caught.

 

[river_rat]

Hope it made sense. I had a lot of trouble with understanding betas too.
PureOne startup clatter? That's unusual for those. Go ahead and try the Wix, why not?...they filter better than they advertise. I don't know why, but that's the way it is.

You could try a Purolator Classic too. Good flow, and 97.5% at 20 microns and see how that does.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I recently made a switch from an Amsoil filter to a PureONE (less $$$ considering I don't do extended OCI's), and I get some nice startup clatter when I first startup in the morning.


Strange that would happen. PureONEs flow very well from the data I've seen. Could be the ADBV on that PureONE isn't holding well, and causing the filter to empty over night.

My experience with cold engine start up noise is that some engines are way more sensitive to empty filter start ups than others.

When I do an oil/filter change on my 2005 Tacoma V6, the filter and the oil path to the filter are empty when I first start up the engine. I never hear any engine noises, so this engine is not sensitive to 2 or 3 seconds without oil pressure ... apparently some engines are.

The PureONE is 99.9% efficient at 20 microns. This mean its Beta Ratio is 1000 @ 20 microns, as mentioned above.

There were a few long threads in this forum in the last 6 months that went into understanding Beta Ratio with great detail.

 

[sdude2k2000]

My other thought is to try the oversized WIX version of my spec'd filter. My car specs the 51348... but the 51516 has the same dimensions, just longer. But with it being longer, it also seems to be more efficient. Any drawbacks to trying this?

51348
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.404
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=21/37
Burst Pressure-PSI: 275
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226


51516
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=14/31
Burst Pressure-PSI: 275
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
My other thought is to try the oversized WIX version of my spec'd filter. My car specs the 51348... but the 51516 has the same dimensions, just longer. But with it being longer, it also seems to be more efficient. Any drawbacks to trying this?


Those are the same filter numbers for my 05 Tacoma. I just swapped from the OEM Toyota 90915-YZZD3 to the PureONE PL20195 which is 4.75" long - 3/4" longer than the 90915-YZZD3. Just put it on today, and all seems good.

 

[SuperBusa]

Beta Ratio = Efficiency %
2 = 50%
4 = 75%
20 = 95%
75 = 97.5%
200 = 99.5%
1000 = 99.9%

51348
Beta Ratio: 2/20=21/37

Means 50% efficient @ 21 microns, and
Means 95% efficient @ 37 microns

51516
Beta Ratio: 2/20=14/31

Means 50% efficient @ 14 microns, and
Means 95% efficient @ 31 microns

The 51516 has slightly better filtering efficiency. PureONE PL20195 smokes it with 99.9% @ 20 microns.

 

[sdude2k2000]

I totally understand that the PureONE is going to best the WIX in filtration ability, but remember my original reasoning for looking into other filters... the PureONE gives me some startup clatter that the EaO never did prior. Is it the bypass design difference? Media type? I don't know... I just know it does now, didn't before. Go figure.

 

[sdude2k2000]

BTW, thanks for all your help so far guys!

 

[EagleFTE]

Clatter, you may have had a filter with a bad seating ADBV (it happens with even the best) or perhaps the oil pump has a hard time pushing through the 99.9% at 20 micron media rapidly at colder temps. If this were the case Grp IV and Grp V oils have excellent cold pumping properties so if you are not using one it might be enough to help with the clatter.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
Clatter, you may have had a filter with a bad seating ADBV (it happens with even the best) or perhaps the oil pump has a hard time pushing through the 99.9% at 20 micron media rapidly at colder temps.


From the flow vs PSID data I've seen for the PureONE, I'd expect it to flow just as well as any other hi-pro filter with cold oil. If it flows well with hot oil compared to others, it will also flow well with cold oil compared to the same others.

One thing about the Purolators is their bypass valve is usually set higher than most. It's around the 12 ~ 15 psi range, where as the NAPA/WIX filters (and others) are 8 ~ 10 range. If the oil is thick enough to cause the filter to go into bypass, them maybe with the higher bypass setting there is slighty less oil pressure while in bypass mode ... but it would only be a few psi (2 ~ 5 psi), something I wouldn't think would make that much difference.

It could have been the ADBV. When I bought the PL20195 yesterday, there were 3 on the self so I gave them all the "blow test" to see how the ADBV sealed. 2 of the 3 had some leakage ... but the one I bought was very tight - no leakage detected with this test. The filter on my Tacoma mounts base down, so I want one that has a well sealing ADBV.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
My other thought is to try the oversized WIX version of my spec'd filter. My car specs the 51348... but the 51516 has the same dimensions, just longer. But with it being longer, it also seems to be more efficient. Any drawbacks to trying this?

These are also my filter numbers. I've been running that oversize equivalent most of the time (51516, or PL20195) for two and a half years.

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
When I do an oil/filter change on my 2005 Tacoma V6, the filter and the oil path to the filter are empty when I first start up the engine. I never hear any engine noises, so this engine is not sensitive to 2 or 3 seconds without oil pressure ... apparently some engines are.

In my mind's eye, I see the oil hitting this filter through the inlet holes, compressing the air in the empty upside-down filter, and having nowhere to go but through the media and out into the engine - even before the filter can is full of oil.

You have gravity on your side.
Oil wants to flow/fall into the engine almost as soon as there is any in the can, I think.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
2/20 = 21/37

1/2 of particles 21 microns in diameter are not caught in the filter and show up downstream.

and only 1/20 of the particles 37 microns in diameter are not caught by the filter (because they're bigger and catch in the media easier).

In this case the manufacturer could choose to rate the filter as 95% efficient at 37 microns--because 1/20 of the particles getting through is the same as 95% of them being caught.
Thanks for that! I now understand how they figure percent efficiency, from the beta ratio numbers.

 

[river_rat]

Just put a one over the beta number that relates to the quantity getting through (not the particle size) and it's easy to see!

 

[sdude2k2000]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
It could have been the ADBV. When I bought the PL20195 yesterday, there were 3 on the self so I gave them all the "blow test" to see how the ADBV sealed. 2 of the 3 had some leakage ... but the one I bought was very tight - no leakage detected with this test. The filter on my Tacoma mounts base down, so I want one that has a well sealing ADBV.


How akward is that... someone walking down the isle of the store, sees you "blowing" on an oil filter. I can see the

look now, hahah. =)

All kidding aside, sounds like a good test actually. I know the Purolators typically have a higher PSI setting than others, but only by 1-2 psi... which in real world application shouldn't translate into much I wouldn't think. But who knows. I figure I'll give WIX a shot & see how it does. If I'm not happy, then so be it.

BTW, for record, I'm using PP 5w20 for my oil (stocked up on some during this recent rebate sale). I was using Amsoil 0w30 with the EaO prior.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: river_rat

Just put a one over the beta number that relates to the quantity getting through (not the particle size) and it's easy to see!
Yep, after you showed that example that's exactly how I thought about it.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
When I do an oil/filter change on my 2005 Tacoma V6, the filter and the oil path to the filter are empty when I first start up the engine. I never hear any engine noises, so this engine is not sensitive to 2 or 3 seconds without oil pressure ... apparently some engines are.


In my mind's eye, I see the oil hitting this filter through the inlet holes, compressing the air in the empty upside-down filter, and having nowhere to go but through the media and out into the engine - even before the filter can is full of oil.

You have gravity on your side. Oil wants to flow/fall into the engine almost as soon as there is any in the can, I think.


True, but remember the oil pump is positive displacement, so there is a decent volume of oil hitting the filter upon start up. I would expect all the air to be out of the filter by the time the oil pressure light goes out. The oil probably rushes in so fast that it virtually fills the entire volume between the can and media almost instantly .... and the air has nowhere to go but through the media and out the center tube, followed by a rush of oil volume.

 

[river_rat]

Ya. I think I like your version better now you describe it that way.