Best Oil for Given Engine

[DirectRejection]

I asked HPL a question along the lines of the tenor of this thread.
If you have an oil that results in minimal wear,
and that oil has , say, a lot of phosphorus, what difference does it make ?
How would you cat possibly get poisoned, with no excessive blowby ?

 

[xyxptlx]

Even with after run cooling the biggest differential in turbocharger life is the operator. There is no oil spec that will fix that. Coolant cooled bearing are start.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

This isn't about what the best oil that meets factory spec is or the cheapest.

Let's theorize about the best oil for a given engine is including it's emissions equipment.

Since I own a Gen 2 3.5 Ecoboost (T-GDI) I'm going to use it. It specs a 5W-30, Mechanically shears oil and is a reputed fuel diluter (Gen I was worse).
But honestly it's just the first problem child that comes to mind.

Would the ideal oil look something like a VW 504.00 / 507.00 Oil? A CK-4 oil?

Would it be a 3.5 HTHS for best combination of protection and flow?

Would it be a 2.3 HTHS for increased flow?

Would it be a 4.4 HTHS for increased protection?

I know I have my opinions but I kind of want to see how others would go about it. I'm always willing to look at alternative ways of viewing a problem and it's solution.

You don't want to use a CK-4 oil in that engine. Those oils are formulated to deal with Diesel fuel dilution, not gasoline, amongst other things.

For your Ecoboost I would recommend Castrol EDGE 0W-40. Castrol reformulated to include a nice dose of Magnesium, while lowering Calcium. It still has a nice amount of ZDDP in it. Basically it can handle LSPI as well. I run it in our 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.4 GDI, another motor that while not a Turbo, is hard on oil and has some fuel dilution issues. By the time you're done with it, that Castrol will resemble a thin 5W-30. If you can afford it, Redline 0W-40 is a much better option, a very stout oil.

 

[PoorMans180SX]

This isn't about what the best oil that meets factory spec is or the cheapest.

I know I have my opinions but I kind of want to see how others would go about it. I'm always willing to look at alternative ways of viewing a problem and it's solution.

I think I get what you're asking, and it definitely has a lot of factors. For instance if the car was driven by someone with a light foot and was an automatic, I would say an oil that was thin enough to provide good gas mileage while strong enough to prevent wear. In such an application, it would probably be synthetic 0w20 or 0w16 (for modern engines).

For me, who drives aggressively, revs the engine out regularly, rev-match downshifts and pushes the car hard in corners, well I'm probably better off with something that leans more towards the protection side. Higher anti-wear, TBN, and HTST numbers. My current daily is a 2005 Mazda 6 with 225,000 miles on it. It specs 5w20 but I run 5w30 Redline because I quite literally beat the piss out of it every day and do 6000 mile OCIs.

Now in the racing world, we pretty much go by bearing clearances, and generally we set bearing clearances larger than factory spec and use a heavy oil to provide a nice big hydrodynamic wedge to support the massive loads on the connecting rods and crankshaft. Factory bearing clearances don't allow for enough load capacity, and engines will eat bearings when you start making a lot of torque. Just adding thicker oil might help a little, but it will also probably run hotter as it doesn't flow into and out of such tight spaces as well.

So I think the application and how it is driven are the two biggest factors for picking your ideal oil.

 

[PoorMans180SX]

Even with after run cooling the biggest differential in turbocharger life is the operator. There is no oil spec that will fix that. Coolant cooled bearing are start.

Modern turbos are much better than old ones when it comes to construction. That being said, pushing a turbo to high boost will put more load on everything and it could cause wear depending on what kind of thrust and bearing system is used. An engine oil with high anti-wear additive amounts, HTST (particularly applicable in floating journal bearings), and Teost results will definitely help it live longer.

 

[PoorMans180SX]

Wow, I mean HTHS in both posts.

 

[Gene K]

Wow, I mean HTHS in both posts.

Don't worry about it. I meant to get up when the alarm went off too. All's well that ends well.

 

[EMPIRE]

Does HTHS really matter if the low HTHS oils takes the engine to 300kmi. Any evidence by anyone that a low HTHS GF6B 0w16 has not or will not allow the engine to go a respectable 200-300kmi? Any real-world evidence at all? When I say evidence I do mean data-set.

The best oil is the one that closes out engine end-of-life near 300kmi, or, it got the job done w/o issue (whatever that job was).
It's like baseball, the closer is what matters.

 

[EMPIRE]

Modern turbos are much better than old ones when it comes to construction. That being said, pushing a turbo to high boost will put more load on everything and it could cause wear depending on what kind of thrust and bearing system is used. An engine oil with high anti-wear additive amounts, HTST (particularly applicable in floating journal bearings), and Teost results will definitely help it live longer.

Do turbo's create load, or force? Loads are drags, no?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Pretty much every manufacturers calls out a viscosity grade higher for their turboed version of the same NA engine. If not, then they are typically using some really efficient oil coolers on the car. More HTHS and MOFT always helps parts wear less as the oil thins down from the added heat of a turbo system.

 

[blingo]

More HTHS living from just dealing with temperatures not always helps parts when the gain is lost over the millions per second.

Empire, after a couple of days with advanced grades you're about to hit upon HTHS-V now. Which is fine but would kill an original thread begun here.
Who knows how many viscosities actually could be packed in curves that fit in a bottle – you might end up scrutinizing slices of oil viscosities. Or slices of shear rates – I'm already confused.
Really, as long as you're notoriously leaving the impression of trying to figure out how to have folks come up with youtube tutorials that you'd only need to film and upload for them – don't think that much more about the nature of HTHS et al. Just get this and other viscosities in a package.

If a summary of path analysis is forming your answer at last, some preliminary answer would have to do it by now.
Some would say some MOFT beyond an expectation from looking at some "HTHS" could be part of an answer eventually, but as I read it that's been a seriously open inquiry actually. Would be a real shame with.

 

[ZeeOSix]

More HTHS living from just dealing with temperatures not always helps parts when the gain is lost over the millions per second.

Huh? HTHS is specified at a shear rate of 1x10^6/sec and 150C, and an oil that does well at 1x10^6/sec compared to others is also most likely going to do better at shear rates above that level. Keep in mind that engine RPM would have to be a lot higher than cruising to the grocery store or down the highway at 2000 RPM to get above the 1x10^6 shear rate.

 

[blingo]

The value for this slice for one million per second may become something more like a turning point when going for ten millions with revs pushing the velocities and loads compressing the thicknesses. I'd think that 9000 rpm over 4µm already let rings or apexes for example see the 10 millions. While the temperatures there could be more like 250°C? It's okay as a characteristic value, an orientation in catalogues, but not to be seen without regard to the way it's achieved, right? Even the exact way of dealing with temperatures when employing VM has consequences. Not all following the same curves up to to 250 or 300°C. At least theoretically – the differences there must be dwindling.

 

[EMPIRE]

Huh? HTHS is specified at a shear rate of 1x10^6/sec and 150C, and an oil that does well at 1x10^6/sec compared to others is also most likely going to do better at shear rates above that level. Keep in mind that engine RPM would have to be a lot higher than cruising to the grocery store or down the highway at 2000 RPM to get above the 1x10^6 shear rate.

Right, but does that change depending on what test was used, ASTM D4683 vs D4741 vs D5481

 

[ZeeOSix]

Right, but does that change depending on what test was used, ASTM D4683 vs D4741 vs D5481

Read the Significance & Use and the Scope of each specific test. You can do your own reseach if the accuracy output correlates to what degree between them if they their scope overlaps.

Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity of New and Used Engine Oils at High Shear Rate and High Temperature by Tapered Bearing Simulator Viscometer at 150 °C

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity values at the shear rate and temperature of this test method have been indicated to be related to the viscosity providing hydrodynamic lubrication in automotive and heavy duty engines in severe service.7 5.2 The viscosi

www.astm.org

Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Temperature and High Shear Rate by Tapered-Plug Viscometer

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity measured under the conditions of this test method is considered to be representative of that at the temperatures and shear rates but not the pressures in the journal bearings of internal combustion engines under operatin

www.astm.org

Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity is an important property of fluid lubricants. The viscosity of all fluids varies with temperature. Many common petroleum lubricants are non-Newtonian: their viscosity also varies with shear rate. The usefulness of the vi

www.astm.org

 

[EMPIRE]

Read the Significance & Use and the Scope of each specific test. You can do your own reseach if the accuracy output correlates to what degree between them if they their scope overlaps.

Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity of New and Used Engine Oils at High Shear Rate and High Temperature by Tapered Bearing Simulator Viscometer at 150 °C

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity values at the shear rate and temperature of this test method have been indicated to be related to the viscosity providing hydrodynamic lubrication in automotive and heavy duty engines in severe service.7 5.2 The viscosi

www.astm.org

Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity at High Temperature and High Shear Rate by Tapered-Plug Viscometer

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity measured under the conditions of this test method is considered to be representative of that at the temperatures and shear rates but not the pressures in the journal bearings of internal combustion engines under operatin

www.astm.org

Standard Test Method for Measuring Apparent Viscosity at High-Temperature and High-Shear Rate by Multicell Capillary Viscometer

Significance and Use 5.1 Viscosity is an important property of fluid lubricants. The viscosity of all fluids varies with temperature. Many common petroleum lubricants are non-Newtonian: their viscosity also varies with shear rate. The usefulness of the vi

www.astm.org

I did read them, they each appear to turn out varying results because each is a different type of test.
Was asking if the #'s produced by the test (testing of same oil) impact this statement (below) at all?

and an oil that does well at 1x10^6/sec compared to others is also most likely going to do better at shear rates above that level.

One of the goals of GF6B's was to reduce incidents of LSPI.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I did read them, they each appear to turn out varying results because each is a different type of test.
Was asking if the #'s produced by the test (testing of same oil) impact this statement (below) at all?

One of the goals of GF6B's was to reduce incidents of LSPI.

As said, you can do your own research to see if the various tests put out different results in terms of HTHS at 150C and 1x10^6/sec. Have you looked to see what specific HTHS test method the various oil manufactures use and specify in their oil specs ... they may all pretty much use the same test method these days.

LSPI has nothing to do with HTHS.

 

[EMPIRE]

As said, you can do your own research.........

I can.

 

[tdi jerry]

I recall most of the time for applications that didn't require an approval, Doug Hillary would recommend either M1 0w-40 or Delvac 1 5w-40, those were his go-to lubes based on his extensive experience.

If an approval was required, it was use the approved oil you could reasonable locate at the best price and most conveniently.

I remember Doug Hillary and at times i saw some heated discussions .

 

[Snagglefoot]

I asked HPL a question along the lines of the tenor of this thread.
If you have an oil that results in minimal wear,
and that oil has , say, a lot of phosphorus, what difference does it make ?
How would you cat possibly get poisoned, with no excessive blowby ?

The API is reiterating their support for a 800 ppm phosphorus limit. SP oils will continue to have the limit. If you want a higher phosphorus number it won’t have a SP approval.