Best oil for 1993 Land Rover NAS Defender 110

[Nomad110]

Hey guys,

Long time reader but first time poster. I need some advise on what oil to run in my essentially bran new Defender 110 that was fully restored including and most importantly the engine. The engine is a typical Land Rover V8 flat tappet style engine. Mine has a slightly hotter cam and was ported and polished. It's a wonderful engine and runs incredibly smooth. It is time for it to have it's first oil change at 3000 miles. I think right now it has 10-30 Castrol GTX which is what some service station gave it before being sent to me. My goal is to give it the best oil for the rest of its life. Cost is of no concern so please feel free to recommend the best.

Details:

Factory Recommendation

Location:
I live in Napa Valley, CA. It sees a range of temperatures of lets say 15 F - 110 F but since I use the truck for overland travel it can see more extremes then this on trips that I take a couple times a year.

Driving Style:
I really take care of gear and am meticulous about maintenance. However, I do use my truck and it works hard sometimes pulling a trailer up a steep hill. I do a lot of off roading in dusty environment. I do have a raised air intake and change my air filter very frequently.

Driving Habits:
I live where I work so a lot of my driving (the Defender is my work truck on the farm) is short little trips of just a couple minutes. Sadly I don't see a full warm up every time I drive it. I do however make some very long trips occasionally (all day driving) of say once a quarter. I make it into the city where I can see some stop and go traffic but otherwise my area isn't that congested. I think the most important detail here are the many short trips around the farm I do all day, most days.

Known Problems:
The truck, being very new, has no known problems. The cooling system is very robust so the truck operates at around 180 F (water temp) no matter what I do. And it does have a very accurate and calibrated VDO temp gauge that isn't "slow to read reality".

My ignorant opinion:
I've been reading and reading and reading on this sight all about what is the best oil...here is what I came up with. In my narrow-minded opinion what I figured is the theoretical best oil for my kind of engine is Redline 0W-40. Why? The 0W, because I assumed that with my frequent cold starts I would benefit from an oil that flows as good as possible at start that would help get things lubricated quicker. The 40W because it is within the recommended range of my Defender and is also a pinch thicker which helps keep the leaks a little more in control because these engines tend to leak prematurely from the rear main seal. Why RedLine? Well this is a little more propaganda then anything, but because it supposedly has the higher elements needed for these older tech engines. It also has above a 3.5 HTHS which I heard is needed for these engines. I heard that the Mobile 1 0W-40 is more formulated for the newer stuff and doesn't have the "good old stuff".

So what is an experts recommendation? I really want the best for this engine given my diverse requirements.

Thank you in advanced.

 

[Brons2]

It gets down to 15F in Napa Valley? I would not have guessed that. I have family all over the Bay Area and I'd say a 15F night would be once in a blue moon but anyway...

I have heard 15w40 HDEO does really good in these older Rover V8s. This is an old-school, cam in block design with pushrods and all. If you want synthetic, hard to go wrong with Rotella T6 5w40.

Redline 0w40 would probably work fine but it will cost you a pretty penny and not give you any better protection than T6, in my opinion.

If you're pulling a trailer to Phoenix and want thicker, go M1 15w50.

That's my $0.02.

 

[Nomad110]

True...15F is a bit of an extreme. I do live on a mountain so its quite colder.

So is the 0W thing not true? Is a 0W not always better then a 5W or 10W at start up temperatures? What does a Rotella or Amsoil have that is better then the Redline?

Please disregard price in these discussions...we are having a shoot out of the best.

 

[Nomad110]

Also should add that these engines tend to have sludge issues which is why I thought the high detergency of synthetics would benefit. I have also essentially read that in all cases synthetics are better. If I'm wrong on any of this...some one please school me.

 

[Brons2]

It really depends on the oil how thick it will be at any given temperature. the 0w part is rated at -35C (I think) for a 0w40 and it's never going to get that cold in your area. There is a chart to extrapolate viscosity at any given temp if you have the viscosity index and viscosity numbers at 40C and 100C.

If I remember right, the Redline products don't have a particularly high viscosity index number.

I think T6 would protect the engine in this vehicle for as long as you will want to own it. Is there something out there that is infinitesimally better? Maybe, but you'll never see the difference in real-world usage. Plus you can buy it at Walmart and many parts stores.

As for sludge, HDEO's are great for preventing that.

My concern with Redline is that the additive levels are so high that they may have undesirable effects in some applications. The undesirable effects may be ok in racing usage but for everyday usage it may not be acceptable.

 

[Nomad110]

I guess I am struggling with a more fundamental issue here. Walk through my logic here: In an ideal world our engines would never warm up they would just run at full operating temperature even from start up and we would just need straight 40W oil all the time. Our engines run best and are most protected at operating temperature because the oil flows, and therefore protects the best. Regardless of ambient temperature what we ultimately want is an oil that will act as close to the thinness of operating temperature during starting so it can get around the engine the quickest. Using Redline's specs, at 40 C the 5W-40 has a Vis @ 40C, cSt of 94 while the 0W-40 has a Vis @ 40C, cSt of 81. The 0W oil is closer to the operating viscosity and therefore better for the engine at startup. Both have at 100 C a Vis, cSt of 15.1. Shouldn't then our goal always be to use a 0W oil no matter what the temperature outside is. I understand it becomes more pressing in very cold environments and therefore necessary but am I correct in assuming the benefit is seen in any environment? Is a 0W-X always better in any environment then a >0W-X? Is there no downside?

As for the additives that is over my head and I'm sure others will hopefully chime in regarding Redlines additive package in terms of it being beneficial or not for these flat tappet style engines.

Again thank you for everyone time. I find this stuff so interesting and perhaps I over simplify.

 

[Nomad110]

I'm also finding conflicting info on the ZDDP package found in Redline oils. This site has even removed it from its list: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html

However, I have found on this site UOAs clearly showing high levels of Zinc and Phosphorus as recent as 2011. Has something changed?

 

[Boss302fan]

5W40 Rotella syn...

 

[Nomad110]

Originally Posted By: Nomad110
I guess I am struggling with a more fundamental issue here. Walk through my logic here: In an ideal world our engines would never warm up they would just run at full operating temperature even from start up and we would just need straight 40W oil all the time. Our engines run best and are most protected at operating temperature because the oil flows, and therefore protects the best. Regardless of ambient temperature what we ultimately want is an oil that will act as close to the thinness of operating temperature during starting so it can get around the engine the quickest. Using Redline's specs, at 40 C the 5W-40 has a Vis @ 40C, cSt of 94 while the 0W-40 has a Vis @ 40C, cSt of 81. The 0W oil is closer to the operating viscosity and therefore better for the engine at startup. Both have at 100 C a Vis, cSt of 15.1. Shouldn't then our goal always be to use a 0W oil no matter what the temperature outside is. I understand it becomes more pressing in very cold environments and therefore necessary but am I correct in assuming the benefit is seen in any environment? Is a 0W-X always better in any environment then a >0W-X? Is there no downside?

As for the additives that is over my head and I'm sure others will hopefully chime in regarding Redlines additive package in terms of it being beneficial or not for these flat tappet style engines.

Again thank you for everyone time. I find this stuff so interesting and perhaps I over simplify.


I'd like someone to specifically talk about this theory. Otherwise Im going to spend the rest of life repeating this....am I right or wrong?

 

[typ901]

I ran Rotella 5w-40 in my '95 Range Rover Classic during winter and fall with a lot of luck (no starting problems). Main issues on this era for me was a average at best starter, and oil pressure when cold start. I believe that for R.O.W. preferred oil choice was 5w-40, I do not recall if it stipulated A3/B3 oil though. If cost is of no concern then maybe even M1 0w-40. This is a pretty basic engine flat tappet-pushrod-low rpm...designed in the 50's etc... etc...I would be more concerned about keeping the cooling system in top shape.

 

[Nomad110]

Why would one prefer M1 0W-40 over the Redline 0w-40?

 

[typ901]

Originally Posted By: Nomad110
Why would one prefer M1 0W-40 over the Redline 0w-40?


I have no practical experience with Redline. I have used M1 in that engine family with success, like I did with Rotella. I drew the line at something that was available at Walmart and auto parts stores, and more cost sensitive then Redline lubricants. With an engine design this old, I would value frequent changes more than oil brand.

The old joke is that GM produced more of these Buick/Rover v8's in 3 years then Rover did from 1967-2004. There were not a lot of changes other than fuel injection/emissions systems. I cannot say that a high quality lube would not work well, I just do not feel it is necessary for this engine to live a long and effective life.

What type (Brand) cam are you running? Maybe you are 200-250 HP and close to 300Lbs. of torque?

 

[Flying_A]

My dad lives in Geryserville, just over the hill from you, with a Defender 90 and uses his for the same exact purposes! I currently own a 03 Disco, had a 96 (both have a similar engine, just bigger displacement 4.0 and 4.6) and we both run the Rotella T6 5W-40 religiously. My pops has 272k on his Defender, original everything. Choose the Rotella and be done with it.

 

[typ901]

Originally Posted By: Flying_A
My dad lives in Geryserville, just over the hill from you, with a Defender 90 and uses his for the same exact purposes! I currently own a 03 Disco, had a 96 (both have a similar engine, just bigger displacement 4.0 and 4.6) and we both run the Rotella T6 5W-40 religiously. My pops has 272k on his Defender, original everything. Choose the Rotella and be done with it.


Yeah my '99 DII liked the Rotella as well as the '95 RRC- My LR3 gets whatever synthetic Xw-30 is on sale. Not fussy at all.

272k miles on a Defender is an awesome accomplishment.

 

[Flying_A]

Originally Posted By: typ901
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
My dad lives in Geryserville, just over the hill from you, with a Defender 90 and uses his for the same exact purposes! I currently own a 03 Disco, had a 96 (both have a similar engine, just bigger displacement 4.0 and 4.6) and we both run the Rotella T6 5W-40 religiously. My pops has 272k on his Defender, original everything. Choose the Rotella and be done with it.


Yeah my '99 DII liked the Rotella as well as the '95 RRC- My LR3 gets whatever synthetic Xw-30 is on sale. Not fussy at all.

272k miles on a Defender is an awesome accomplishment.


Very nice... Love the LR3's! Our next purchase will probably be an 07 Range Rover, one of the best looking cars on the road in my opinion.

Haha it is an accomplishment indeed but it wasn't easy getting there. Multiple engine fires and sunk the truck at least three times in the Russian River

 

[Jim Allen]

Believe it or not I am (or was) a factory trained (in England) Land Rover tech, now moved on to other things. I was hot and heavy into Rover things when your D110 was being sold and I've worked on a lot of them. And built a lot of Rover V8 engines, including some for performance applications. Had Land Rovers myself from the '70s into the late '90s. Here are a few things to ponder in freeform style... you can google the names I mention:

The two main weaknesses in the Rover V8 related to lubricants are the oil pump and the camshaft. The oil pump consists of steel gears running in an aluminum front housing. Guess which part wears first when dirty oil flows thru the pump? They get loose and oil flow slows (it's a low-pressure, high-volume system). The cam uses a small diameter blank and so the lobes have a less surface area than many other cams, so the surface loading is higher, resulting in more potential wear and the need for better lubrication. The OE material was so-so and the hardening equally so (I got rich replacing Rover V8 cams in the '80s). By the time your 3.9L engine came along, they were better and fairly reliable. Aftermarket cams (you didn't say which brand and spec cam was installed) are usually a lot better in the materials area than the OE but you are still faced with the low surface area problem. The cure for the camshaft is to make SURE you use a high zinc (ZDDP) oil, at least SL levels of zinc. Any API SM or SN rated oil is suspect (this engine is a special case). A good HDEO (dual rated for diesel and gas) will serve and many of boutique oils have SL levels of ZDDP. ZDDP levels will deal somewhat with the oil pump wear issue too, but using the best oil filtration you can get and keeping the oil clean also helps. That would mean a high end full-flow filter (Amsoil, Royal Purple, M-1, Bosch Distance Plus to name a few). If you want to play "perfect world" this scenario could include a bypass system (I like the Pareto TopDog system for simplicity and the Racor ABS system for efficiency but there are other good ones). If the oil in the sump is cleaner, the oil pump doesn't have to suck in as much contamination (remember it gets dirty oil straight from the crankcase).

Viscosity: I personally think a 40 grade is needlessly heavy in a Rover V8 in your climate. I base my viscosity choices on engine oil temp and I have checked enough to know Rover V8s run fairly cool generally (no more than 200F sump temp, except in extreme conditions). Overall I think a thickish 30 grade oil is more than sufficient but I wouldn't argue against a 0W40 or 5W40 syn oil with high ZDDP. There are some high ZDDP 0W30 and 5W30 HDEOs (Shell and Chevron both have HDEOs in 0W30 and Amsoil's HDD is a 5W30... Castrol Elixion is also a 5W30).

You are wasting time and money with frequent air filter replacements. First off, air filter efficiency improves as it loads up. Second, the process of changing the fitler can introduce dirt, third there is no mileage increase with a new filter (the proof is here: Air Filters & Fuel Economy. My advice: mount an air filter restriction gauge and replace it when it reaches 2.5kPA restriction and not before. Some monitors to consider are the FilterMinder and the Donaldson Informer. They mount just behind the filter in the intake tract. Clean air is part of the clean oil equation. If I had a D110, I would look into some high efficiency air filter options. I remember the OE Rover filters as being pretty substandard. I never saw any efficiency tests, but the rubber deteriorated quickly in heat. I don't know what the current state of the OE parts or replacements. Beyond the oiled cotton gauze options (K&N, et al) I don't know of any high efficiency direct replacements for LRs (I'm a bit out of the loop). And FYI, oiled cotton gauze are not "high efficiency" (though they are high flow), being about as good as modern standard media. There are some Donaldson PowerCore filter assemblies that look easily adapted to the D110 and that's about the most efficient filter you can get and delivers good flow if sized properly. Should be relatively easy to adapt to your snorkel as well.

Related to air filtration is the crankcase breather setup. On the stock engine, there is a cheesy foam filter on on valve cover in an equally cheesy snapped-on plastic housing. Replace it with something more substantial and efficient. I can't tell you haw may Rovers I saw where the filter had popped off and allowed the crankcase to suck in dirty air. I used to installed a small, generic crankcase breather filter found in high performance shops (looked kinda like a little K&N), but there may be something better now. For "frequent floaters," I used to do a remote mount higher and at the back of the engine compartment.

 

[Nomad110]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Believe it or not I am (or was) a factory trained (in England) Land Rover tech, now moved on to other things. I was hot and heavy into Rover things when your D110 was being sold and I've worked on a lot of them. And built a lot of Rover V8 engines, including some for performance applications. Had Land Rovers myself from the '70s into the late '90s. Here are a few things to ponder in freeform style... you can google the names I mention:

The two main weaknesses in the Rover V8 related to lubricants are the oil pump and the camshaft. The oil pump consists of steel gears running in an aluminum front housing. Guess which part wears first when dirty oil flows thru the pump? They get loose and oil flow slows (it's a low-pressure, high-volume system). The cam uses a small diameter blank and so the lobes have a less surface area than many other cams, so the surface loading is higher, resulting in more potential wear and the need for better lubrication. The OE material was so-so and the hardening equally so (I got rich replacing Rover V8 cams in the '80s). By the time your 3.9L engine came along, they were better and fairly reliable. Aftermarket cams (you didn't say which brand and spec cam was installed) are usually a lot better in the materials area than the OE but you are still faced with the low surface area problem. The cure for the camshaft is to make SURE you use a high zinc (ZDDP) oil, at least SL levels of zinc. Any API SM or SN rated oil is suspect (this engine is a special case). A good HDEO (dual rated for diesel and gas) will serve and many of boutique oils have SL levels of ZDDP. ZDDP levels will deal somewhat with the oil pump wear issue too, but using the best oil filtration you can get and keeping the oil clean also helps. That would mean a high end full-flow filter (Amsoil, Royal Purple, M-1, Bosch Distance Plus to name a few). If you want to play "perfect world" this scenario could include a bypass system (I like the Pareto TopDog system for simplicity and the Racor ABS system for efficiency but there are other good ones). If the oil in the sump is cleaner, the oil pump doesn't have to suck in as much contamination (remember it gets dirty oil straight from the crankcase).

Viscosity: I personally think a 40 grade is needlessly heavy in a Rover V8 in your climate. I base my viscosity choices on engine oil temp and I have checked enough to know Rover V8s run fairly cool generally (no more than 200F sump temp, except in extreme conditions). Overall I think a thickish 30 grade oil is more than sufficient but I wouldn't argue against a 0W40 or 5W40 syn oil with high ZDDP. There are some high ZDDP 0W30 and 5W30 HDEOs (Shell and Chevron both have HDEOs in 0W30 and Amsoil's HDD is a 5W30... Castrol Elixion is also a 5W30).

You are wasting time and money with frequent air filter replacements. First off, air filter efficiency improves as it loads up. Second, the process of changing the fitler can introduce dirt, third there is no mileage increase with a new filter (the proof is here: Air Filters & Fuel Economy. My advice: mount an air filter restriction gauge and replace it when it reaches 2.5kPA restriction and not before. Some monitors to consider are the FilterMinder and the Donaldson Informer. They mount just behind the filter in the intake tract. Clean air is part of the clean oil equation. If I had a D110, I would look into some high efficiency air filter options. I remember the OE Rover filters as being pretty substandard. I never saw any efficiency tests, but the rubber deteriorated quickly in heat. I don't know what the current state of the OE parts or replacements. Beyond the oiled cotton gauze options (K&N, et al) I don't know of any high efficiency direct replacements for LRs (I'm a bit out of the loop). And FYI, oiled cotton gauze are not "high efficiency" (though they are high flow), being about as good as modern standard media. There are some Donaldson PowerCore filter assemblies that look easily adapted to the D110 and that's about the most efficient filter you can get and delivers good flow if sized properly. Should be relatively easy to adapt to your snorkel as well.

Related to air filtration is the crankcase breather setup. On the stock engine, there is a cheesy foam filter on on valve cover in an equally cheesy snapped-on plastic housing. Replace it with something more substantial and efficient. I can't tell you haw may Rovers I saw where the filter had popped off and allowed the crankcase to suck in dirty air. I used to installed a small, generic crankcase breather filter found in high performance shops (looked kinda like a little K&N), but there may be something better now. For "frequent floaters," I used to do a remote mount higher and at the back of the engine compartment.



This is a tremendous post thank you! I knew this site had some serious talent. I also spoke to another brilliant person, Dave from Redline and he reiterated many of the things you have said. From the two of you I have deduced the best oil for the truck.

Redline 5W-30

Why? 40W, as you pointed out is a little thick for these engines regardless of what some die hard land rover people might say. 30W will also help with cooling transfer of the engine. As you said the ZDDP package is very important and Dave confirmed that Redline oil has a ~1200 ppm ZDDP package that would be perfect for these flat tappet engines. It's not too much thought that it will damage the catalytic converter. Lastly the reason why a 0W-30 or 0W-40 is not better then a 5W-30 or a 10W-40 has to do with the thickeners. Dave told me that I should try and avoid thickeners if not absolutely needed. When the spread gets too large thickeners are always needed to make this possible. A 5W-30 is perfect because it contains the highest amount of moly which these engines love and has no thickeners. He told me that only 5W-30 and 10W-40 are the oils that don't have thickeners. This is finally making lots of sense. Lastly, he told me that changing the oil is very important on these trucks. Just as you stated these engines are dirty and an oil change interval of around 6000-8000 is what Dave suggested. Just to be on the safe side I will use a very good filter and change at 4500-5000 miles.

Again thanks to everyone! I will get an analysis done soon.

Cheers

 

[typ901]

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

Check out M1 HM 5w-30 if that is visc. you want to go with, has a higher ZDDP level as it is API SL, though not as high as Redline you mentioned. I would not run any oil in this LR 6-8k miles.

I respect Jim Allen's knowledge, but I am looking at the original chart in your email and 5w-30 runs out before you hit your max. temp range of 110F you mentioned in your posting. Just me being nit picky. I was told by a LR engineer in Gaydon that they would take the thermostats out in the summer to help them (Rover v8) cool, and the UK is generally not a hot place. Also I thought oil temps were stable due to the oil coolers, not good design of engine? I figured they were there for a reason; to address an inefficiency. Regardless-run what you feel comfortable with.

 

[Jim Allen]

The oil temps I measured do include the oil cooler... that's a part of the lube system on many '90s era LRs. As I said, the gauge read 200-ish sump temp (I built an adapter that screwed into the place the oil level sensor mounts in the pan). My data came from mostly from Range Rover out of San Diego, some run out in Anza Borrego. I installed oil temp gauges on other Rovers too but they weren't as easy to install without access to that pre-made hole in the pan. Like I said, I won't argue hard against a 40 grade, especially a synthetic, but my experience is that a good 30 grade is enough. I suppose you could put me into the "thin" crowd when it comes to oil, but I tried to keep that bias from showing too much (perhaps I failed).

typ901: There has to be more to the story with your Gaydon source based on my personal experience. From the early '90s to the late '90s, I worked as a driving instructor for LRNA. Since I was a tech, my second responsibility (we each had one... one of our guys was an EMT, for example) was vehicle repairs & maintenance in the field. We had our share of problems but overheating wasn't among them. The mix of Rovers for the bevy of events over that period would include Range Rovers (the full range available then), Discos, D110s and D90s from '90 to '97. We ran events out in the Utah and California deserts, Arizona, the Rockies, the Northeast, the South... all over. Even South America. Never once was a thermostat removed. I can't even think of an overheating incident. The closest thing to a chronic hot running problem we had was with the fan viscous couplings in some years, which were sometimes erratic. The cure was to drop a gear and get the revs up. On the'94 Great Divide Expedition in the Rockies, I recall a long, slow grade (GDE was essentially ALL off-road) where we started to see elevated temps. It was high altitude, heavily loaded RR LWBs ('94 era) and it was warm. What was odd is that we never had trouble there before or after. We had D90s on that trip and I don't recall them being effected. Most of my time as a line tech was in SoCal and Colorado. Don't recall chronic high temps there either.

 

[typ901]

Jim:
Believe me it sounded extreme when he told me. I never attempted, but my '95 RRC LWB did have overheating issues-when sitting in traffic with a/c on you could count on the water temp needle rising. Most likely radiator was clogged, but I sold it before I replaced the rad- the winter salt had started to destroy the bonnet and tailgate, and I was faced with a hefty bill to rebuild engine (it needed it) and deal with wiring and the rusted panels.

I miss the character, but not the features. I say this as I am looking at needing a new rear diff for the LR3. Not sure if I am smart or stupid for not switching brands to a Jeep or Toyota!