Best MOLY additives?

[930.engineering]

The VOA I posted of SSL has no moly.

EDIT:
We had a thread on some of the formulation changes that Ravenol went through a while back. It was interesting, because you are right, "back in the day" they were using Moly and then all of a sudden it vanished.

Just what I found on the fly. I vaguely remember from reading tribology publications that there's some kind of synergy (including ZDDP). Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean "DIY mixing" yields any gain. That being said I'd bet we're going to still lead this kind of discussion in ten years.

 

[OVERKILL]

Just what I found on the fly. I vaguely remember from reading tribology publications that there's some kind of synergy (including ZDDP). Obviously that doesn't necessarily mean "DIY mixing" yields any gain. That being said I'd bet we're going to still lead this kind of discussion in ten years.

Yes, I read something on a blending synergy as well, which may explain the low levels of moly (kind of in-step with the results of the organic FM added to trimer for example, the rest of the chemistry impacts how well it works, or doesn't work).

Here's my VOA:

Ravenol SSL 0w-40 VOA

This is what I got back from Toromont. No real Moly or Titanium, a bit of Boron. I'm guessing Organic additives? Oxidation is also low, so POE content isn't high either.

bobistheoilguy.com

Also, I expect Ravenol, like the other blenders, uses different chemistry depending on the target certs and approvals.

 

[930.engineering]

Thanks for that link.

2017:

2018 (date code 11.2018):

That's the latest I could find. Mo 51 ppm, Boron 67 ppm, W/Tungsten 123 ppm. That's corresponding
to the VOA above (Mo 54 ppm, B 88 ppm, they didn't examine for W). Unfortunately they both don't
align with your VOA. Or vice versa. I have no idea why even though I'm aware Ravenol changed their
formulations at some moment due "USVO" which I understand as mainly using improved VIIs and/or
less of them.
.

 

[adams355]

If you run tungsten you only need about of 10% moly for the same friction reduction. There is also a synergy with ZDDP.

Friction Modifier Additives, Synergies and Antagonisms - Tribology Letters

There is growing interest in reducing friction in lubricated machine components to thereby increase the energy efficiency of machines. One important way to minimise friction is to employ friction modifier additives to reduce friction in thin film boundary lubrication conditions. There are...

link.springer.com

 

[Accent Abuser]

I've used both Mos2 and Lubegard BioT. I think Mos2 has more tangible benefits like increased fuel economy, engine smoothness, and noise reduction. I would not use Mos2 in a car that is not daily driven however.

BioT also turned the QSUD 5w40 I mixed it with green, take that Royal Purple!

Ceratec also has a megadose of Moly and I like that one too. I'm currently running Ceratec and will use Mos2 for oil changes in between.

 

[930.engineering]

If you run tungsten you only need about of 10% moly for the same friction reduction. There is also a synergy with ZDDP.

Friction Modifier Additives, Synergies and Antagonisms - Tribology Letters

There is growing interest in reducing friction in lubricated machine components to thereby increase the energy efficiency of machines. One important way to minimise friction is to employ friction modifier additives to reduce friction in thin film boundary lubrication conditions. There are...

link.springer.com

That's one of the sources I refered to in post #41. Based on that 50 ppm Mo isn't "little".
.

 

[56Cummins]

If you run tungsten you only need about of 10% moly for the same friction reduction. There is also a synergy with ZDDP.

Friction Modifier Additives, Synergies and Antagonisms - Tribology Letters

There is growing interest in reducing friction in lubricated machine components to thereby increase the energy efficiency of machines. One important way to minimise friction is to employ friction modifier additives to reduce friction in thin film boundary lubrication conditions. There are...

link.springer.com

Perfect article for this thread. For yall that haven't read it, they tested varoius FM additives in already formulated oil.

 

[Davejam]

Perfect article for this thread. For yall that haven't read it, they tested varoius FM additives in already formulated oil.

The posted article compares group 3 "base oil" with various FM. Its not a fully formulated oil to start with.

If you run tungsten you only need about of 10% moly for the same friction reduction. There is also a synergy with ZDDP.

And it says nothing about Tungsten.

It basically concludes what we on this forum already know. There is synergy between Moly dimer and ZDDP.

 

[FZ1]

I think I'm going to let my engine warm up a few seconds longer on the initial start after seeing that the moly activation point is about 180 degrees.

 

[adams355]

And it says nothing about Tungsten.

Yes, sorry the other article is the relationship between nano-diamond additives with Mo-DTC. Tungsten is within that group though.

Friction-reduction and anti-wear properties of polyalphaolefin oil with Mo-DTC additive enhanced by nano-carbon materials - Applied Nanoscience

Polyalphaolefin (PAO) oil is one of the most commonly-used based oil to decrease the fuel energy consumption of mechanical systems, like vehicles. Nevertheless, it heavily relies on environmental toxic organic additives with sulfur, phosphorus, and/or chlorine. Accordingly, nano-carbon...

link.springer.com

 

[adams355]

And like additives:

https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-01461622/document

 

[TiGeo]

LM Molygen add MoS2. 150ppm tungsten.

 

[adams355]

LM Molygen add MoS2. 150ppm tungsten.

Yep thats why its only a small splash of Moly because it works alot better with the tungsten.

 

[TiGeo]

Yep thats why its only a small splash of Moly because it works alot better with the tungsten.

LM says you can run the MoS2 solid FM with it/won't hurt but you don't need to. Here is the VOA I did. Had to add tungsten analysis.

Liquimoly Molygen 5W40 VOA

Decided to go with Liqumoly's Molygen 5W40 this go around out of interest so did a VOA to compare with their Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 which I have also posted a VOA for previously but have included here. The Molygen should be basically the same except in contains a friction modifier (MFC -...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Robert Scalchi]

Well, for starters, moly dose rate isn't just a "MOAR IS BETTAR!!!!111ONE" thing. Tri-nuclear moly doesn't require anywhere near the same level of treatment to provide the same level of effectiveness:
View attachment 67382
View attachment 67383
View attachment 67384

You'll note in the 2nd graph that things sort of plateau around the 120-140ppm mark and the anti-wear properties plateau just after 50ppm. So while it might make somebody feel totally super awesome to have 10 billion ppm in their oil, Mobil has treated that oil with the amount of moly they've tested to provide the necessary characteristics for anti-wear and friction reduction, so bumping that up isn't going to improve the performance of the product.

Furthermore, yes, moly is a very popular (and inexpensive) FM. But, there are other products also in use, like titanium and tungsten and so adding moly to an oil that's using an alternative FM solution may not be beneficial either and there may be negative synergies there.

Which leads me to my next question on this thread? Frankenbrews or mixing QSFS (Moly) with Castrol Edge (Titanium) Any potential counteractive chemical makeup affects mixing with different additive packs?

 

[kschachn]

Which leads me to my next question on this thread? Frankenbrews or mixing QSFS (Moly) with Castrol Edge (Titanium) Any potential counteractive chemical makeup affects mixing with different additive packs?

If they are both API licensed they passed ASTM D6922 as part of the licensing requirements. Therefore there won’t be catastrophic “counteractive chemical makeup affects.”

 

[4WD]

Indeed, the reason Mobil doesn't sell "Mobil 1 oil saver" is because the product is already blended optimally. Ravenol doesn't use moly because they use tungsten instead. Other blenders use titanium.

With some of these products it's a lot like buying an AI, CADEX or McMillan precision rifle and then buying a "cryo treated" barrel from the guy that runs the local junkyard because he's advertising "it's got EVEN MORE STEEL!" and of course more must be better. And cryo treated? Jesus on a napkin, give me 20!

Toss in a tactical flashlight and special ops glasses ?

 

[xgmad]

Moly is an alternative to zinc compound in oil.

Better luck with titanium additive

 

[MolaKule]

Moly is an alternative to zinc compound in oil.

How so? Did you mean moly as an "alternative" to ZDDP in formulated oils?

 

[Jetronic]

Nobody considered adding a splash of Red Line performance series to get moly? in addition you also get zddp, calcium, ester oil and you can choose out of a wide range of viscosities and instead of some unknown mineral carrier oil you're adding PAO.