Best low priced all season that's good in the snow

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I drove a coworker's car on "hi fly" all seasons. In a flat, snowy parking lot, traction control kicked in and would not let it rev above 1500 RPMs, and it didn't move.

Going with all seasons is already a compromise, don't add another layer by going generic.

If you're going to anyway, look at the tread pattern and pick something with lots of sipes. Cheap tires that lack them are guaranteed to be awful.


That's why the Discount Tire rep I chatted with recommended the Cooper CS3...he said it had a lot of sipes...not quite sure what those are...I thought sipe was something that's done to a tire, not something that's part of the tire...


The CS3's are not very good in the snow, even cooper ranks them pretty low in snow (I think a 6 out of 10). Also just looking at a tire will not tell you how well it works in snow.
Sipes are the little cuts in the tread like this...
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.do

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I drove a coworker's car on "hi fly" all seasons. In a flat, snowy parking lot, traction control kicked in and would not let it rev above 1500 RPMs, and it didn't move.

Going with all seasons is already a compromise, don't add another layer by going generic.

If you're going to anyway, look at the tread pattern and pick something with lots of sipes. Cheap tires that lack them are guaranteed to be awful.


That's why the Discount Tire rep I chatted with recommended the Cooper CS3...he said it had a lot of sipes...not quite sure what those are...I thought sipe was something that's done to a tire, not something that's part of the tire...


The CS3's are not very good in the snow, even cooper ranks them pretty low in snow (I think a 6 out of 10). Also just looking at a tire will not tell you how well it works in snow.
Sipes are the little cuts in the tread like this...
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/tireSiping.do


If the CS3 is not good in the snow, makes me wonder why the guy at DT recommended them...

 

[NormanBuntz]

Bear in mind that with its global expansion Cooper now makes many tires in China. Your size should be either H rated or V rated in an all season tire, neither of which perform well in the snow. But if you're looking for both good value and good performance, check out your options with Hankook or Kumho tires. They're generally well respected Korean brands, and they often offer rebates.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
Bear in mind that many Cooper tires now are made in China. Your size must be either an H rated or V rated tire, neither of which perform well in the snow because the rubber compound is harder. But if you're looking for both good value and good performance, check out your options with Hankook or Kumho tires. They're generally well respected Korean brands.


I thought as the speed rating went up, the compound gets softer?

 

[NormanBuntz]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: NormanBuntz
Bear in mind that many Cooper tires now are made in China. Your size must be either an H rated or V rated tire, neither of which perform well in the snow because the rubber compound is harder. But if you're looking for both good value and good performance, check out your options with Hankook or Kumho tires. They're generally well respected Korean brands.


I thought as the speed rating went up, the compound gets softer?


In general, yes. But not in those all season tires that boast high mileage claims.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I drove a coworker's car on "hi fly" all seasons. In a flat, snowy parking lot, traction control kicked in and would not let it rev above 1500 RPMs, and it didn't move.

Going with all seasons is already a compromise, don't add another layer by going generic.

If you're going to anyway, look at the tread pattern and pick something with lots of sipes. Cheap tires that lack them are guaranteed to be awful.


That's why the Discount Tire rep I chatted with recommended the Cooper CS3...he said it had a lot of sipes...not quite sure what those are...I thought sipe was something that's done to a tire, not something that's part of the tire...


The CS3 has very little siping compared to other good all season tires like most Michelins, the General RT43, and the Hankook H727. Sipes are the little slits cut into each lug in the treadblock; they allow the lugs to open up slightly and bite into the surface and get traction.

This graphic of the General RT43 shows the siping in the tread pattern.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BUwoSCVlleQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Another important factor in tire siping built into a tire is how deep they are; with many cheaper tires, the sipes will be gone when the tread wears down half way, but with premium tires, they have full depth sipes.

 

[Drew99GT]

http://us.coopertire.com/Tires/Passenger/Cooper-CS3-Touring.aspx

Actually, I take that back after looking at the CS3. I was thinking of the other Cooper tires I've seen. The CS3 visually does have a lot of siping and fairly open lugs in the treadblock which means it should do well in light to moderate snow. They advertize it has having 3D micro siping which I believe means it's full depth like what Michelin does.

 

[mtndew_dad]

I don't thing any of the new Cooper CS-3 or CS-5 tires were available last winter, so I am not sure how there snow performance can be judged yet. Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.

I would stay away from all the no name [censored] tires for sure. Just look at a recent Consumers Report where they tested several cheap Chinese tires....they all suck.

 

[ThirdeYe]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I've had excellent results with the Arizonian Silver edition tires sold at discount tire. I did pay extra for siping, but I have not tried them without siping to see how they compare. They get along great in the snow and the dry grip is excellent as well.


They're more expensive than the Coopers ($99 vs $84)...


Are they? Interesting... I must have thought they were less expensive because they were not very expensive on the Acura with its small 14" wheels. Still, that's much cheaper than the wide tires on the Firebird! Those set me back a bit...

 

[Rand]

just get general altimax rt43 they are great in the snow for an all season.

 

[Pokermatters]

Go to tirebuyer.com and note that for the General Altimax RT43 in the 215/60/16 siz, if you choose a tirebuyer installer local to your area, the price for a set of 4 is $319 and shipped FREE.

Present this information to your local Discount Tire...and since they price match and carry this tire via their Discount Tire Direct, you should get each tire for $79 each....plus the cost of their install package, which includes free lifetime balance and rotation.

I did just this and Tire Discount had my General Altimax RT43's the next day, ready to install.....check out the reviews for this tire at tirebuyer.com ......and their test results....very good all season performance in a value tire.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I drove a coworker's car on "hi fly" all seasons. In a flat, snowy parking lot, traction control kicked in and would not let it rev above 1500 RPMs, and it didn't move.

Going with all seasons is already a compromise, don't add another layer by going generic.

If you're going to anyway, look at the tread pattern and pick something with lots of sipes. Cheap tires that lack them are guaranteed to be awful.


That's why the Discount Tire rep I chatted with recommended the Cooper CS3...he said it had a lot of sipes...not quite sure what those are...I thought sipe was something that's done to a tire, not something that's part of the tire...


A sipe can be both. Snow tires like the WS-70 have a lot of them molded in the tread from the factory.

Some stores have machines that add sipes to tire by cutting small slits in them.

I added sipes to a set of winter tires I had with a utility knife last year. Worked great!

 

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad
I don't thing any of the new Cooper CS-3 or CS-5 tires were available last winter, so I am not sure how there snow performance can be judged yet. Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.

I would stay away from all the no name [censored] tires for sure. Just look at a recent Consumers Report where they tested several cheap Chinese tires....they all suck.



The CS5 are new. The tests/reviews I have seen shows the Ultra CS5 to work well in snow for a all season. That is why I got 2 full sets for some of my inlaws cars.

Both CS5's are ranked better in snow than the CS3. the Ultra CS5 is ranked a little better than the Grand CS5. So that is why I went with the Ultra over the grand. The CS3 is more a economy tire and also comes in smaller sizes like 14"

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad
Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.



I disagree. All season tires with wider gaps in the treadblock and lots of full depth built in siping generally rate better in reviews for snow traction, and that seems intuitive. You can look at the siping on a tire and see if the slit is in the side of the block as well which indicates it's a deeper sipe. If you look at any Michelin tire, the sipe is all the way through the treadblock like good snow tires.

That's been my experience with all season tires; look for ones with the above characteristics and they perform better in winter conditions.

 

[mtndew_dad]

Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad
I don't thing any of the new Cooper CS-3 or CS-5 tires were available last winter, so I am not sure how there snow performance can be judged yet. Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.

I would stay away from all the no name [censored] tires for sure. Just look at a recent Consumers Report where they tested several cheap Chinese tires....they all suck.



The CS5 are new. The tests/reviews I have seen shows the Ultra CS5 to work well in snow for a all season. That is why I got 2 full sets for some of my inlaws cars.

Both CS5's are ranked better in snow than the CS3. the Ultra CS5 is ranked a little better than the Grand CS5. So that is why I went with the Ultra over the grand. The CS3 is more a economy tire and also comes in smaller sizes like 14"
Originally Posted By: Jimzz
Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad
I don't thing any of the new Cooper CS-3 or CS-5 tires were available last winter, so I am not sure how there snow performance can be judged yet. Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.

I would stay away from all the no name [censored] tires for sure. Just look at a recent Consumers Report where they tested several cheap Chinese tires....they all suck.



The CS5 are new. The tests/reviews I have seen shows the Ultra CS5 to work well in snow for a all season. That is why I got 2 full sets for some of my inlaws cars.

Both CS5's are ranked better in snow than the CS3. the Ultra CS5 is ranked a little better than the Grand CS5. So that is why I went with the Ultra over the grand. The CS3 is more a economy tire and also comes in smaller sizes like 14"


The only winter rating/review I have found is on the Cooper website, and it is just a bar graph indicating general performance ratings amongst various Cooper tire models. For example a summer performance tire has a lower snow "rating" than an all-season. I have a set of CS-5 Grand Touring on an Odyssey and I am just hoping the winter traction is decent. The reviews overall for the CS-5 are very positive.

 

[mtndew_dad]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad
Just looking at the tread pattern is no guarantee of good winter performance.



I disagree. All season tires with wider gaps in the treadblock and lots of full depth built in siping generally rate better in reviews for snow traction, and that seems intuitive. You can look at the siping on a tire and see if the slit is in the side of the block as well which indicates it's a deeper sipe. If you look at any Michelin tire, the sipe is all the way through the treadblock like good snow tires.

That's been my experience with all season tires; look for ones with the above characteristics and they perform better in winter conditions.


I agree, if I walked up to a rack of different tires and was asked to select the tire that would most likely perform the best in the snow, I would choose a tire with deep and numerous sipes as you have described. But as I said it is no guarantee, especially when looking at all season tires as almost all feature numerous sipes. If a tire has those tread design features yet, for example, the rubber compound doesn't remain fairly pliable at lower temperatures, it may have poor winter performance. That is why it is very helpful to check a source that does standardized testing.

 

[michaelluscher]

..WAS............ up to H rated MXV4's
IDK how its replacement, the Premier A/S is doing.

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: mtndew_dad


I agree, if I walked up to a rack of different tires and was asked to select the tire that would most likely perform the best in the snow, I would choose a tire with deep and numerous sipes as you have described. But as I said it is no guarantee, especially when looking at all season tires as almost all feature numerous sipes. If a tire has those tread design features yet, for example, the rubber compound doesn't remain fairly pliable at lower temperatures, it may have poor winter performance. That is why it is very helpful to check a source that does standardized testing.


I, unfortunately, found out that some all season tires absolutely SUCK in winter conditions, even though they look like they should be pretty good... ! A few years back, I put a set of Bridgestone all seasons ( forget the model... but the tire guy said their GOOD! all seasons...) on my wifes car in the fall, and during the first accumulation of snow, she slid into a curb and bent a wheel and tweaked the alignment... I told her she must have been going too fast... she said NO WAY, you drive it... I did, and I was SHOCKED at how bad the tires handled snow-ice... bad as in freakin terrible... DANGEROUS BAD...!

That was the beginninng of my tire education, and I have learned that...

Winter tires ( mountain/snowflake approved and marked...) are vastly superior to any ALL SEASON tire on snow and ice. There is no comparison between any brand name winter studless tire and an all season... NONE.

The M + S , or " ALL SEASON..." label on a tire means only that the tread pattern meets a tread to void ratio of 75/25 or lower... so , a little blockier than say a summer tire. And the grooves must be a certain size and orientation.

NOTHING MORE... no testing whatsoever is required... sure the tiremaker may do some testing, but they are not required to.

There is NO TRACTION requirement for a tire to be labelled ALL SEASON... period. So buyer beware...!

And tire makers know that many people will not buy a tire that is not an ALL SEASON... so aside from high performance summer tires, EVERYTHING is all season... and many of them should not be...!

Beware of the long tread life all season in particular... you need a hard rubber compound to last, but that same hard compound works poorly in cold temps.... so the tread design meets the all season criteria, but the compound is way too hard for any reasonable winter performance. Yet these tires seem to be the best sellers...

Look at the MICHELIN Defender, for example. It has a very long tread wear warranty, 90 000 miles. And it has a shallower tread depth to start 10/32 vs other brands 11 to 12/32... tread depth helps snow performance, soft compounds help ice traction... I have these on my van, and I assure you they are POOR in real winter conditions...yet they say ALL SEASON in big letters on the sidewall. Compared to the NOKIAN HAKKA. R 's I run in winter, ummm, there is no comparison... Defenders 2/10, Nokians 9.5/10

So back to the original thread...low priced all season GOOD in snow...?

The answer is NONE...! Don't kid yourself... good... ummm, no. Barely adequate, if you tip toe around, maybe... !

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
So back to the original thread...low priced all season GOOD in snow...?

The answer is NONE...! Don't kid yourself... good... ummm, no. Barely adequate, if you tip toe around, maybe... !




To just flat out say there is no such thing as an all season tire that performs well in the snow is just flat out wrong. The cheap, no name brand all seasons I put on the front of my Corolla last year were incredible in the snow. In fact, they would pull that car through snow so deep I could feel it dragging across the floorboards as I was going through it...I doubt there's a dedicated snow tire that would do any better than these...

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: grampi

To just flat out say there is no such thing as an all season tire that performs well in the snow is just flat out wrong. The cheap, no name brand all seasons I put on the front of my Corolla last year were incredible in the snow. In fact, they would pull that car through snow so deep I could feel it dragging across the floorboards as I was going through it...I doubt there's a dedicated snow tire that would do any better than these...


I have defenders and they arent bad for light snow, but they are definitely average at best in deep snow.
Fortunately the car I run those on has a set of michelin xice xi2's that goes on right before the first major snow. and off in april..
so they only have to handle light snow.

Grampi-- Thats like saying "I've love my chevy corsica I cant imagine a better car"... there are better ones out there let me assure you..

unless you were just

.