Best handling econobox car ever?
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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
You'll laugh, but the 1st generation Honda Insight (the consummate econobox considering the econo is 60-70mpg's worth) is a sweet-handling car.
No kidding, it is aluminum frame, with the heavy battery near the ground.
We used to build hybrid back in school and the best trick to get good handling is to use light frame and put the battery low and away from the engine. You can easily get a mid size aluminum car with hybrid battery under the floor to do 1g in slamdom with LRR tires.
You'll laugh, but the 1st generation Honda Insight (the consummate econobox considering the econo is 60-70mpg's worth) is a sweet-handling car.
No kidding, it is aluminum frame, with the heavy battery near the ground.
We used to build hybrid back in school and the best trick to get good handling is to use light frame and put the battery low and away from the engine. You can easily get a mid size aluminum car with hybrid battery under the floor to do 1g in slamdom with LRR tires.
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Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
88-91 Civic hatchback. Specifically Si.
What about the CRX?
I owned both a Civic Si and a regular CRX (I was one of those guys) and I didn't prefer the CRX.
With such a short wheelbase the CRX actually oversteered and I found it made me less confident. I bought coilovers expecting it to fix the problem but it only made it worse. At that point I would have to spend more than the worth of the car on a dampening setup, only to more than likely match the handling of the Civic Si.
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
88-91 Civic hatchback. Specifically Si.
What about the CRX?
I owned both a Civic Si and a regular CRX (I was one of those guys) and I didn't prefer the CRX.
With such a short wheelbase the CRX actually oversteered and I found it made me less confident. I bought coilovers expecting it to fix the problem but it only made it worse. At that point I would have to spend more than the worth of the car on a dampening setup, only to more than likely match the handling of the Civic Si.
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
That's the AE86 made popular in Initial D
The DOHC powered GT-S models probably don't count. Rule 2. But some were SR-5s that had the same SOHC 4A-C that the fwd Nova/Corolla had. They might count
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
That's the AE86 made popular in Initial D
The DOHC powered GT-S models probably don't count. Rule 2. But some were SR-5s that had the same SOHC 4A-C that the fwd Nova/Corolla had. They might count
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
That's the AE86 made popular in Initial D
The DOHC powered GT-S models probably don't count. Rule 2. But some were SR-5s that had the same SOHC 4A-C that the fwd Nova/Corolla had. They might count
The ones that didn't have the 4AGE engine were called "AE85" instead of "AE86"
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
That's the AE86 made popular in Initial D
The DOHC powered GT-S models probably don't count. Rule 2. But some were SR-5s that had the same SOHC 4A-C that the fwd Nova/Corolla had. They might count
The ones that didn't have the 4AGE engine were called "AE85" instead of "AE86"
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
Yes! I owned a 1985 RWD GT-S with the MR2 engine and it was by far the most neutral handling car ever. Four wheel drifts were easy and predictable. The high winding engine had little torque so throttle steering required a sincere effort. Great car, I wish I still owned it.
My brother had a 1985 911 and it was a pig compared to this cheap little Toyota.
Does the 1985-1987 RWD Toyota Corolla count? Many people still treasure them to this day, whereas nearly all other Corollas were simply thrown away when they got old or needed major repairs.
Yes! I owned a 1985 RWD GT-S with the MR2 engine and it was by far the most neutral handling car ever. Four wheel drifts were easy and predictable. The high winding engine had little torque so throttle steering required a sincere effort. Great car, I wish I still owned it.
My brother had a 1985 911 and it was a pig compared to this cheap little Toyota.
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Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
You'll laugh, but the 1st generation Honda Insight (the consummate econobox considering the econo is 60-70mpg's worth) is a sweet-handling car.
No kidding, it is aluminum frame, with the heavy battery near the ground.
We used to build hybrid back in school and the best trick to get good handling is to use light frame and put the battery low and away from the engine. You can easily get a mid size aluminum car with hybrid battery under the floor to do 1g in slamdom with LRR tires.
Dang, 1G with LRR tires? That's kickin' rad!
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
You'll laugh, but the 1st generation Honda Insight (the consummate econobox considering the econo is 60-70mpg's worth) is a sweet-handling car.
No kidding, it is aluminum frame, with the heavy battery near the ground.
We used to build hybrid back in school and the best trick to get good handling is to use light frame and put the battery low and away from the engine. You can easily get a mid size aluminum car with hybrid battery under the floor to do 1g in slamdom with LRR tires.
Dang, 1G with LRR tires? That's kickin' rad!
The earlier Civics were good handling little go-carts with great shifters and smooth 1.5 liters that loved the redline.
Our '76 was fun to drive, as were the '86 Wagons.
Less understeer than later Hondas as well as rod shifters, rather the cables.
These cars were also really easy to drive without touching the clutch as long as you were on the roll.
Our '76 was fun to drive, as were the '86 Wagons.
Less understeer than later Hondas as well as rod shifters, rather the cables.
These cars were also really easy to drive without touching the clutch as long as you were on the roll.
While I doubt it would match up in lateral G-forces or slalom time, I have to say that Liz's roller skate (1988 Festiva) always impressed me. Even on its tiny (155R12) tires, it was nimble, predictable, and the little 1.3 litre engine had no trouble pulling it. (Of course, it was only about 1700lbs.) Bonus: 45+MPG! It's easy to see that plenty of work went into the chassis. (Which, IIRC, it shares with the Mazda 323.)
She really misses that car...not at all impressed by its replacement, the Easter Egg (1997 Geo Metro).
She really misses that car...not at all impressed by its replacement, the Easter Egg (1997 Geo Metro).
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
While I doubt it would match up in lateral G-forces or slalom time, I have to say that Liz's roller skate (1988 Festiva) always impressed me. Even on its tiny (155R12) tires, it was nimble, predictable, and the little 1.3 litre engine had no trouble pulling it. (Of course, it was only about 1700lbs.) Bonus: 45+MPG! It's easy to see that plenty of work went into the chassis. (Which, IIRC, it shares with the Mazda 323.)
She really misses that car...not at all impressed by its replacement, the Easter Egg (1997 Geo Metro).
Festiva was a Kia built Mazda 121.
The Geo Metro can be a great handling car....if you pull out all the suspension components and replace them with 1989-1994 Swift GTi parts. The Swift GTi drew comparisons in performance to the CRX Si and Storm GSi. But in it's stock configuration? It's probably like my Swift GA with a little less power. A reliable and economical car that is miserable to drive.
While I doubt it would match up in lateral G-forces or slalom time, I have to say that Liz's roller skate (1988 Festiva) always impressed me. Even on its tiny (155R12) tires, it was nimble, predictable, and the little 1.3 litre engine had no trouble pulling it. (Of course, it was only about 1700lbs.) Bonus: 45+MPG! It's easy to see that plenty of work went into the chassis. (Which, IIRC, it shares with the Mazda 323.)
She really misses that car...not at all impressed by its replacement, the Easter Egg (1997 Geo Metro).
Festiva was a Kia built Mazda 121.
The Geo Metro can be a great handling car....if you pull out all the suspension components and replace them with 1989-1994 Swift GTi parts. The Swift GTi drew comparisons in performance to the CRX Si and Storm GSi. But in it's stock configuration? It's probably like my Swift GA with a little less power. A reliable and economical car that is miserable to drive.
Originally Posted By: kb01
2000 Ford Focus SE
Best handling car I've ever owned. It also taught me the valuable lesson of never buying a first year production car ever again.
LOL. I bought a 2004 Focus ZTS 2.3L 5 speed and am amazed at how well it handles curves at almost twice the posted speed. Far enough into the years that it has been 100% trouble free. Also early enough not to have had the suspension softened a bit as in the later years.
2000 Ford Focus SE
Best handling car I've ever owned. It also taught me the valuable lesson of never buying a first year production car ever again.
LOL. I bought a 2004 Focus ZTS 2.3L 5 speed and am amazed at how well it handles curves at almost twice the posted speed. Far enough into the years that it has been 100% trouble free. Also early enough not to have had the suspension softened a bit as in the later years.
Apparently the new Ford Focus ST occupies the slot one of the best handling FWD according to Car and Driver.
Those old FWD's econoboxes were fun to drive for sure. However I seriously doubt many had the structural integrity to handle as well as some boring cars now. They were wet noodles in the uni-body.
Those old FWD's econoboxes were fun to drive for sure. However I seriously doubt many had the structural integrity to handle as well as some boring cars now. They were wet noodles in the uni-body.
My 2003 Focus ZX3 was a great handling little car, especially after I replaced the stock springs and struts/shocks with those off an SVT Focus.
The new Focus handles well, but its increased mass dampens a tiny bit of the fun. The new Focus ST is an excellent handling car.
But in that price point, the Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ are excellent handling cars. Not as practical as a hatchback or sedan, but being rear wheel drive, fun as [censored]!
The new Focus handles well, but its increased mass dampens a tiny bit of the fun. The new Focus ST is an excellent handling car.
But in that price point, the Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ are excellent handling cars. Not as practical as a hatchback or sedan, but being rear wheel drive, fun as [censored]!
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Those old FWD's econoboxes were fun to drive for sure. However I seriously doubt many had the structural integrity to handle as well as some boring cars now. They were wet noodles in the uni-body.
They didn't need much! They were rolling on 145 or 155R13s. (12s on the Ford Fiesta)
Didn't keep the MK1 Rabbit from hiking it's inside rear wheel into the air like a dog marking it's territory. This corner is mine....this one too ...okay, that had more to do with the greater roll resistance on the back wheels, but it's still fun to watch and have a MustangII or Monza driver behind it wonder how that little box on three wheels was nailing him in the corners
Those old FWD's econoboxes were fun to drive for sure. However I seriously doubt many had the structural integrity to handle as well as some boring cars now. They were wet noodles in the uni-body.
They didn't need much! They were rolling on 145 or 155R13s. (12s on the Ford Fiesta)
Didn't keep the MK1 Rabbit from hiking it's inside rear wheel into the air like a dog marking it's territory. This corner is mine....this one too ...okay, that had more to do with the greater roll resistance on the back wheels, but it's still fun to watch and have a MustangII or Monza driver behind it wonder how that little box on three wheels was nailing him in the corners
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