Best Group II 5W30 ?

[SR5]

Joe, Very nice, a PAO monograde, that comes together as a 10W30, just what I am after.

Shannow, if you are doing a bit of bucket chemistry in your garden shed, then I'll take a bucket of your brew.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Joe,
that's a question I asked ages ago...is there a package available (I know prolly only in 44's) that you can add to a simple basestock (like a hydraulic oil), and get an engine oil out of ?



God knows who this Indian company is and whether they would be prepared to give/sell you anything but they do have some rather 'interesting' additive packs which they purport to market. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink!

http://www.dhruvienterprise.co.in/engine-oil-additives.htm

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

...is there a package available ... that you can add to a simple basestock ... and get an engine oil out of ?


Originally Posted By: SR5

Shannow, if you are doing a bit of bucket chemistry in your garden shed, then I'll take a bucket of your brew.


I have some empty GTX bottles I can bring to carry it home.
And....can we dye it purple !!! I really like the idea of running Shannow Purple 10W30 in my car.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Chevron makes oils that are solid and perform very well.


The Thin v Thick debate is OVER (bar the semantics).

 

[bbhero]

Ahh I don't think it's over by a long shot

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe

There's no HTHS result quoted but plugging the KV100 & KV40 numbers in Widman, you get a predicted KV150 of 3.44 cst. You would need to correct this for density but it looks like there's plenty of headroom to make 2.9 min HTHS on a 10W20.

Obviously it's the properties of the fully formulated oil (ie after the addition of additives) that matters and further work would be needed to define what that oil would look like. Once I win the lottery and build my own lubes lab in my garden shed, I'll have a definitive answer for everyone!!!


It's on the sheet, under "performance", at 2.58....Funnily enough, a Harmann Index of just about 1...hmmm to the peanut gallery

 

[ChrisD46]

Anyone have specs on the following synthetic oils (including NOACK) ? Hard to find details on line ...
* Pennzoil Platinum 10W30
* Mobile One 10W30
* Castrol Edge 10W30

 

[Powerstroke]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Joe, Very nice, a PAO monograde, that comes together as a 10W30, just what I am after.

Shannow, if you are doing a bit of bucket chemistry in your garden shed, then I'll take a bucket of your brew.



Wouldn't Amsoil ACD 10W30/30 be what your looking for?

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Ahh I don't think it's over by a long shot


"solid" is...er...the ultimate "thick".

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Ahh I don't think it's over by a long shot


"solid" is...er...the ultimate "thick".


Powdered MoS2 with no liquid carrier in your sump FTW!!!

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Powerstroke
Originally Posted By: SR5
Joe, Very nice, a PAO monograde, that comes together as a 10W30, just what I am after.

Shannow, if you are doing a bit of bucket chemistry in your garden shed, then I'll take a bucket of your brew.



Wouldn't Amsoil ACD 10W30/30 be what your looking for?


Yes it is, unfortunately not avaliable in Australia.

Some people will import it for you, but last time I checked it was very expensive. Something like $30 per Litre.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe

There's no HTHS result quoted but plugging the KV100 & KV40 numbers in Widman, you get a predicted KV150 of 3.44 cst. You would need to correct this for density but it looks like there's plenty of headroom to make 2.9 min HTHS on a 10W20.

Obviously it's the properties of the fully formulated oil (ie after the addition of additives) that matters and further work would be needed to define what that oil would look like. Once I win the lottery and build my own lubes lab in my garden shed, I'll have a definitive answer for everyone!!!


It's on the sheet, under "performance", at 2.58....Funnily enough, a Harmann Index of just about 1...hmmm to the peanut gallery


Oh dear. Did I just have a 'senior moment'? Why did I not see that??

Okay, 2.58 cP HTHS, a bit lower than what I expected but this would rise with the addition of the DI pack. Shame they didn't quote an HTHS for the PAO 10.

 

[SonofJoe]

Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Powerstroke
Originally Posted By: SR5
Joe, Very nice, a PAO monograde, that comes together as a 10W30, just what I am after.

Shannow, if you are doing a bit of bucket chemistry in your garden shed, then I'll take a bucket of your brew.



Wouldn't Amsoil ACD 10W30/30 be what your looking for?


Yes it is, unfortunately not avaliable in Australia.

Some people will import it for you, but last time I checked it was very expensive. Something like $30 per Litre.



I had a look for typical PAO base oil pricing on Google. There's really not much info out there but I did find Exxon SuperSyn 6 (PAO 6) being quoted for 2,500 - 3500 $US/MT, on Alibaba of all places. That works out at roughly $US 3.1 per litre. That's still very expensive as base oils go but far less than the $US 30/litre Amsoil want.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Anyone have specs on the following synthetic oils (including NOACK) ? Hard to find details on line ...
* Pennzoil Platinum 10W30
* Mobile One 10W30
* Castrol Edge 10W30


Hard to find Noack data

The Australian Castrol Edge 10W30 is
Vis 40C = 66.2
Vis 100C = 10.47
Pour Point = -36C
TBN = 11.2
HTHS = 3.2

Kendall GT-1 10W-30 full synthetic is
Vis 40C = 63.2
Vis 100C = 10.4
Pour Point = -39C
TBN = 8.0
HTHS = 3.1

Regular (Not HM) M1 10W30
KV 40 = 63.2
KV 100 = 10,1
PP = -42
HTHS = 3.0
SAPS = 0.8

Pennzoil Platinum 10W30
KV40 = 63.3
kV100 = 10.3
PP = -48 C

The Australian Edge has a quite high TBN (8 would be a more typical value) and the HTHS is at the upper end too.

You would expect a Noack of about 8 % for all of them, with Pennzoil Plat probably being the lowest, maybe even quite lower, but I haven't seen published figures for Pennzoil for years. The old figured were pretty good and PQIA Noack figures for Pennzoil are usually at the low end too.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Shame they didn't quote an HTHS for the PAO 10.

I would 'calculate' it to be around 3.12 cP.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Shame they didn't quote an HTHS for the PAO 10.

I would 'calculate' it to be around 3.12 cP.

That makes sense.

The 10W30 synthetics listed above are 3.0 to 3.2 cP

Like all my grand plans, hard to justify brewing Shannow Purple or importing Amsoil SAE 30 / 10W30, when I can go to the local shop and buy Edge 10W30.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Chevron makes oils that are solid and perform very well.


The Thin v Thick debate is OVER (bar the semantics).


Who won ...

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Anyone have specs on the following synthetic oils (including NOACK) ? Hard to find details on line ...
* Pennzoil Platinum 10W30
* Mobile One 10W30
* Castrol Edge 10W30



Chris,
Like I said, it's hard to get solid figures out of the manufacturers, however I downloaded the spec sheets for Sinclair full synthetic oil last year, and here are their values.

Sinclair 0W-20 full synthetic is
Vis 40C = 42.31 cSt
Vis 100C = 8.06 cSt
HTHS = 2.65 cP
Noack = 13.9 %
TBN = 7.9
SA = 0.92
Zinc = 850ppm
Ca = 0.214 %

Sinclair 5W-30 full synthetic is
Vis 40C = 64.46 cSt
Vis 100C = 10.92 cSt
HTHS = 3.17 cP
Noack = 11.1 %
TBN = 7.9
SA = 0.92
Zinc = 910 ppm
Ca = 0.169 %

Sinclair 10W-30 full synthetic is
Vis 40C = 65.9 cSt
Vis 100C = 10.42 cSt
HTHS = 3.13 cP
Noack = 6.2 %
TBN = 7.9
SA = 0.92
Zinc = 850 ppm
Ca = 0.214%

Sinclair 5W-20 full synthetic (Dexos)
Vis 40C = 50.93 cSt
Vis 100C = 8.835 cSt
HTHS = 2.75 cP
Noack = 10.9 %
TBN = 7.9
SA = 0.92
Zinc = 850 ppm
Ca = 0.214%

Sinclair 5W-30 full synthetic (Dexos)
Vis 40C = 63.95 cSt
Vis 100C = 10.93 cSt
HTHS = 3.2 cP
Noack = 10.5 %
TBN = 7.9
SA = 0.92
Zinc = 850 ppm
Ca = 0.214%

I would consider these fairly typical, and well measured values, from a well made full synthetic.

To me if you are chasing Noack volatility, I think the difference between brands will often be less than the difference between grades. The 10W30 stands out by being well lower than all the rest of the grades.

 

[Jetronic]

got any 0w-30 figures? I suspect making a 0w-30 takes a different approach, especially if you need HTHS to be above 3.5 cP.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Chevron makes oils that are solid and perform very well.


The Thin v Thick debate is OVER (bar the semantics).


Who won ...

Originally Posted By: SR5
From Castrol Australia

THIN
Edge 10W-30 (API SN, ACEA A5/B5, ILSAC GF-5)
Vis 40C = 66.2
Vis 100C = 10.47
Pour Point = -36C
TBN = 11.2
HTHS = 3.2
Zinc ~ 850ppm

THICK
Edge 5W-30 A3/B4 (API SL, ACEA A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5) (Note Castrols says: "Passes all engine test performance requirements for API SN and SM but exceeds Phosphorus limits for those classifications.")
Vis 40C = 71.8
Vis 100C = 12.0
Pour Point = -36C
TBN = 10.2
HTHS = 3.6
Zinc ~ 1000 ppm