Best filter for preventing start up rattle???

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Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: AKA
I have an '07 DGC with the 3.8L (91k miles). My startup clatter was really starting to annoy me so I started the hunt to find the right combo to minimize it. I settled on a Napa Gold 1515 and M1 0w30...its almost totally stopped the clatter (I hear it for 1-2 seconds as opposed to 30 seconds)! I am on my 1st fill of M1 0w30 and this engine seems to really agree with it. Previous fills were PYB 5w20 and VWB 5w20. I dont agree with Chrysler's change from 5w30 to 5w20 in the '07 MY...CAFE I'm sure. I think the biggest factor though was the NG 1515 filter; it is literally an inch taller than the stock NG 1085/MO-090.


Interesting info, thanks!

I agree Chrysler's jump to 5w20 seems more CAFE driven to me than anything else.

My "cold" start ups through out the winter will generally be in the 20's and 30's F. I think an 0w30 may actually be thicker at those temps than some 5w30's, but I'll have to look into that if what I'm trying now doesn't work.


Note on M1 0w30...in our 4.0 it made more than twice the iron of any other oil tested....flat tappets...


Oh yes, Mobil is not even on the table for the Jeep. I've looked at the Castrol 0w30 but haven't bit on it yet.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I brought it up to the dealer several times and they claimed it was normal.We even went on the lot and started several new trucks,various engines,and they ALL had that faint rattle sound.As I stated before,my rattle is very "faint," but is still there.


From what you're saying there, the best you could hope for is to reduce the rattle down to the way it was when new by using the best oil & filter combo. Sounds like an inherent design issue with this engine.

So,basically what you're saying is this engine,no matter what oil/filter I use,will continue to be like this?
As I stated before,it has always made this faint rattle at start up.The MS5K oil seems to have made it a bit more faint.You really have to listen for it to make the rattle.Maybe i'm over reacting.
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Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
AKA said:
I have an '07 DGC with the 3.8L (91k miles). My startup clatter was really starting to annoy me so I started the hunt to find the right combo to minimize it. I settled on a Napa Gold 1515 and M1 0w30...its almost totally stopped the clatter (I hear it for 1-2 seconds as opposed to 30 seconds)! I am on my 1st fill of M1 0w30 and this engine seems to really agree with it. Previous fills were PYB 5w20 and VWB 5w20. I dont agree with Chrysler's change from 5w30 to 5w20 in the '07 MY...CAFE I'm sure. I think the biggest factor though was the NG 1515 filter; it is literally an inch taller than the stock NG 1085/MO-090.


Interesting info, thanks!

I agree Chrysler's jump to 5w20 seems more CAFE driven to me than anything else.

My "cold" start ups through out the winter will generally be in the 20's and 30's F. I think an 0w30 may actually be thicker at those temps than some 5w30's, but I'll have to look into that if what I'm trying now doesn't work.


Note on M1 0w30...in our 4.0 it made more than twice the iron of any other oil tested....flat tappets...
That's why I used the Delvac 1300, combined with the NextGen Maxlife 10W30 in the '98 4.0 XJ. I'm hoping it doesn't need rebuilt, it makes a racket, especially cold, sounds like valvetrain & maybe some piston pin noise combined? It is actually very clean inside for having 209K on the engine, and given that some have reported piston skirt failure on the Jeep 4.0, I don't want to take the chance of going too thin.
 
Originally Posted By: AKA
its almost totally stopped the clatter (I hear it for 1-2 seconds as opposed to 30 seconds)
I can't see how the filter can produce clatter for 30 seconds. I have to believe that even a brand new dry filter would fill in much less time than that.
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
AKA said:
I have an '07 DGC with the 3.8L (91k miles). My startup clatter was really starting to annoy me so I started the hunt to find the right combo to minimize it. I settled on a Napa Gold 1515 and M1 0w30...its almost totally stopped the clatter (I hear it for 1-2 seconds as opposed to 30 seconds)! I am on my 1st fill of M1 0w30 and this engine seems to really agree with it. Previous fills were PYB 5w20 and VWB 5w20. I dont agree with Chrysler's change from 5w30 to 5w20 in the '07 MY...CAFE I'm sure. I think the biggest factor though was the NG 1515 filter; it is literally an inch taller than the stock NG 1085/MO-090.


Interesting info, thanks!

I agree Chrysler's jump to 5w20 seems more CAFE driven to me than anything else.

My "cold" start ups through out the winter will generally be in the 20's and 30's F. I think an 0w30 may actually be thicker at those temps than some 5w30's, but I'll have to look into that if what I'm trying now doesn't work.


Note on M1 0w30...in our 4.0 it made more than twice the iron of any other oil tested....flat tappets...
That's why I used the Delvac 1300, combined with the NextGen Maxlife 10W30 in the '98 4.0 XJ. I'm hoping it doesn't need rebuilt, it makes a racket, especially cold, sounds like valvetrain & maybe some piston pin noise combined? It is actually very clean inside for having 209K on the engine, and given that some have reported piston skirt failure on the Jeep 4.0, I don't want to take the chance of going too thin.


Your 98 XJ would be prior to the redesigned skirts, that started in 99 with the modified 4.0 they put in WJ's and Wranglers.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I brought it up to the dealer several times and they claimed it was normal.We even went on the lot and started several new trucks,various engines,and they ALL had that faint rattle sound.As I stated before,my rattle is very "faint," but is still there.


From what you're saying there, the best you could hope for is to reduce the rattle down to the way it was when new by using the best oil & filter combo. Sounds like an inherent design issue with this engine.

So,basically what you're saying is this engine,no matter what oil/filter I use,will continue to be like this?
As I stated before,it has always made this faint rattle at start up.The MS5K oil seems to have made it a bit more faint.You really have to listen for it to make the rattle.Maybe i'm over reacting.
21.gif



Just sounds like it may never go completely away no matter what oil & filter is used. The combo you have now may be the best possible. A faint rattle for a few seconds on start-up IMO isn't hurting anything, especially if it's just lifters.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I brought it up to the dealer several times and they claimed it was normal.We even went on the lot and started several new trucks,various engines,and they ALL had that faint rattle sound.As I stated before,my rattle is very "faint," but is still there.


From what you're saying there, the best you could hope for is to reduce the rattle down to the way it was when new by using the best oil & filter combo. Sounds like an inherent design issue with this engine.

So,basically what you're saying is this engine,no matter what oil/filter I use,will continue to be like this?
As I stated before,it has always made this faint rattle at start up.The MS5K oil seems to have made it a bit more faint.You really have to listen for it to make the rattle.Maybe i'm over reacting.
21.gif



Just sounds like it may never go completely away no matter what oil & filter is used. The combo you have now may be the best possible. A faint rattle for a few seconds on start-up IMO isn't hurting anything, especially if it's just lifters.

I really appreciate your input but I think i'm onto something here.The MS5K is doing a great job.I searched but it is not made in a 0W20 or 0W30. Can anyone suggest a good conventional 0W20 or 0W30? If it does not work I will just go back to MS5K and be done with it.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter

I really appreciate your input but I think i'm onto something here.The MS5K is doing a great job.I searched but it is not made in a 0W20 or 0W30. Can anyone suggest a good conventional 0W20 or 0W30? If it does not work I will just go back to MS5K and be done with it.
smile.gif



BlueOvalfitter, you might consider Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0w20. A great value priced synthetic, available in 0w20 even at Wally's I think.
 
Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: AKA
its almost totally stopped the clatter (I hear it for 1-2 seconds as opposed to 30 seconds)
I can't see how the filter can produce clatter for 30 seconds. I have to believe that even a brand new dry filter would fill in much less time than that.


I'm stating the filter/oil combo produced the startup clatter for 30 seconds.

My previous oil changes I used the much smaller 1348 filter (teacup) and also the 1085 (OE Mopar MO-090 equivalent) and they both produced the startup clatter for around 30 seconds. Once I switched to the 1515 (same diameter as the 1085 but 1.25 inches longer, same as the MC FL-1A), the startup clatter was all but eliminated. Could it have something to do with also switching to M1 0w30 from VWB 5w20 and PYB 5w20 respectivley, quite possibly yes.

The original owner of my van had regular oil changes done at the dealer (documented every single oil change) at the 3k mi or 3 month mark for 72k miles! So we can assume that bulk oil was used regardless of brand. I am lucky it was well maintained.
 
KCJ,how is the rattle problem going? Yesterday,I had an early dr.s appt.I had to leave at 5:30 am and it was 32* and my truck had a lot of ice on it.This was the first time my engine had conventional oil in it in cold weather,since I bought it new.There was a louder then usual rattle upon startup,then faded away as it usually does.Same scenario this morning,but upon startup every thing was as usual, but this time no loud rattle. I called my Ford tech friend in FL and he recommended I use a 5W30 semi-synthetic or full synthetic,or a full synthetic 0W30.He said the XW30 would stay on the upper engine parts better/longer then a XW20,and lessen the noise upon startup. Opinions on what brand oil?
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Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Still testing, I'll be sure to update, want to do a thorough evaluation.

Since the MC filter install,has the engine been quiet upon startup,the same,somewhat better?
confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Still testing, I'll be sure to update, want to do a thorough evaluation.

Since the MC filter install,has the engine been quiet upon startup,the same,somewhat better?
confused2.gif



Patience amigo, patience.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Still testing, I'll be sure to update, want to do a thorough evaluation.

Since the MC filter install,has the engine been quiet upon startup,the same,somewhat better?
confused2.gif



Patience amigo, patience.
grin.gif


Opinions about my post earlier on using a 0W30 or 5W30 synthetic oil?
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Yes sir flow is your friend especially at start up I suggested Quaker State UD in 0w20. Isn't your vehicle spec'd for a 20 anyway? Or did I miss something?
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Yes sir flow is your friend especially at start up I suggested Quaker State UD in 0w20. Isn't your vehicle spec'd for a 20 anyway? Or did I miss something?

Yes but my Ford tech friend back in FL suggested 0W30 or 5W30 synthetic. He said that the XW30 oil would stay on the upper end parts longer/better as opposed to the XW20,thus less noise at startup.
 
Hmmm...that would be counter to my experiences, but every vehicle has it's personality. The general thought is the thinner at start up the less noise, which is the way it's played out with my vehicles.

Now if you have a hot vehicle that's noisy, thick is your friend then but you'll pay the price on start up.

Didn't you have less start up noise with the thin Mobil? If so that would suggest going thinner still might help, not back to thicker. Snythetics in general flow better though, which is why I suggested the bargain priced QSUD.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Hmmm...that would be counter to my experiences, but every vehicle has it's personality. The general thought is the thinner at start up the less noise, which is the way it's played out with my vehicles.

Now if you have a hot vehicle that's noisy, thick is your friend then but you'll pay the price on start up.

Didn't you have less start up noise with the thin Mobil? If so that would suggest going thinner still might help, not back to thicker. Snythetics in general flow better though, which is why I suggested the bargain priced QSUD.

Am I missing something? I thought the first number (5W or 0W) was the oil weight at startup,then the second numbers (W20 or W30) is the oil weight at operating temperature.
confused2.gif
 
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