Best filter for preventing start up rattle???

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Originally Posted By: JamesBond
I was hearing start-up rattle on a 97 Escort 2.0 with a Purolator Classic L20195. (which is cross referenced to the Motorcraft FL400S) When I removed the filter, very little oil spilled out and the filter was empty once I got it off. I replaced the filter with another Purolator L20195 and the start-up rattle was gone.


Did you cut that filter open to see if there as an internal problem with it?
 
my opinion, due to the nature of any paper filter itis naturally restrictive..my stainless steel filter has no restriction and therefore no startup noise in the frigid cold..if you want a best flowing filter then stainless steel is your answer..
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
On this website you can find the filter brands that have the least restriction, but you've already tried some of them eg Puro Classic, Motorcraft.

http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/conclusions.html

As mentioned, I would go to the thinnest 0W you can find.

You might then find you can use any filter.

Another thought is that I have read recent talk that changing your oil too often can strip away protection that has built up (detergents in fresh oil strip away the protective layer). How often do you change oil? Does this happen more when oil is fresh?

If you check out some of the Jeep forums, they don't recommend 0W oils, esp. M1, and a LARGE number like HDEO of 15W40 or 10W30. Since WM has a rollback on the 10W30 T5, why not try that with a new silicone ADBV filter? I would run that in mine if I didn't have so much FAR NextGen MaxLife & 15W40 lying around.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I know Castrol HM is thick stuff (why I like it and why I will blend it thinner) but I had the exact same problem last winter with PYB 5w30, so I'm not inclined to think it's actually the oil as much as the filter or some scenario with the Jeep itself that is causing this.


It sounds like a combo of oil, filter and colder temps. If it never has start-up rattle when the temperatures are higher with the same combo of oil/filter, then the engine is very sensitive to initial oil flow on cold start-ups when the temps are lower and the oil is thicker. Could be the lifters are weak and leak down some, and with colder/thicker oil, it takes them a few seconds longer to pump back up. When the temps are warmer and the oil is thinner, they get oil quicker and pump up quick and don't exhibit start-up noise.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I know Castrol HM is thick stuff (why I like it and why I will blend it thinner) but I had the exact same problem last winter with PYB 5w30, so I'm not inclined to think it's actually the oil as much as the filter or some scenario with the Jeep itself that is causing this.


It sounds like a combo of oil, filter and colder temps. If it never has start-up rattle when the temperatures are higher with the same combo of oil/filter, then the engine is very sensitive to initial oil flow on cold start-ups when the temps are lower and the oil is thicker. Could be the lifters are weak and leak down some, and with colder/thicker oil, it takes them a few seconds longer to pump back up. When the temps are warmer and the oil is thinner, they get oil quicker and pump up quick and don't exhibit start-up noise.


Makes sense, cause I've tried a lot of good filters, and yes it is exclusively a cold months phenomenon, I get quiet starts the rest of the year and even when it's cold it's only every 4th or 5th start that rattles. But when it rattles, it REALLY rattles, I hate it.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
it's only every 4th or 5th start that rattles.

Mine does the same thing, but has done this since new.
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Skip the xtended guard, get the wally world ultra. Mine used to tick on a classic, its gone!


The Xtended Guard became the Ultra ... both are "XG" series filters.

Only by part number are they the same. The Ultra is a HUGE upgrade to the extended guard. But thats for another discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Skip the xtended guard, get the wally world ultra. Mine used to tick on a classic, its gone!


The Xtended Guard became the Ultra ... both are "XG" series filters.

Only by part number are they the same. The Ultra is a HUGE upgrade to the extended guard. But thats for another discussion.

Stay away from the OCOD!
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Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Skip the xtended guard, get the wally world ultra. Mine used to tick on a classic, its gone!


The Xtended Guard became the Ultra ... both are "XG" series filters.

Only by part number are they the same. The Ultra is a HUGE upgrade to the extended guard. But thats for another discussion.


I really wouldn't classify it as a "huge upgrade" in the FRAM XG series from Extended to Ultra. It was a slight upgrade IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals

Only by part number are they the same. The Ultra is a HUGE upgrade to the extended guard. But thats for another discussion.

Stay away from the OCOD!
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The Extended and Ultra XG is not orange ... it's actually a pretty nice high tier filter. Only FRAM some people would ever use.
 
my 99 xj 4.0L only does it below 25f degrees. i have tried every filter known to man. since the event only lasts a half a second and doesn't do it all the time i live with it and don't consider it a problem. but it is for sure the lifters waiting for oil!(in my case!) mike
 
Originally Posted By: MarkStock
On this website you can find the filter brands that have the least restriction, but you've already tried some of them eg Puro Classic, Motorcraft.

http://filtrationcomparisons.weebly.com/conclusions.html

As mentioned, I would go to the thinnest 0W you can find.

You might then find you can use any filter.

Another thought is that I have read recent talk that changing your oil too often can strip away protection that has built up (detergents in fresh oil strip away the protective layer). How often do you change oil? Does this happen more when oil is fresh?



Thanks, no, I'm about 4k into my current OCI and the rattle only recently started when the temps dropped. Definitely temperature related. The cause I'm not sure on, hoping some filter will help.
 
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
my 99 xj 4.0L only does it below 25f degrees. i have tried every filter known to man. since the event only lasts a half a second and doesn't do it all the time i live with it and don't consider it a problem. but it is for sure the lifters waiting for oil!(in my case!) mike


Light oil definitely helps! I had a heavy mix in last winter and it was AWFUL rattle would last an agonizing 45 seconds. Changed it out to PYB 5w30 and that got it down to just a couple seconds, but I've not been able to get past that mark.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
my 99 xj 4.0L only does it below 25f degrees. i have tried every filter known to man. since the event only lasts a half a second and doesn't do it all the time i live with it and don't consider it a problem. but it is for sure the lifters waiting for oil!(in my case!) mike


Light oil definitely helps! I had a heavy mix in last winter and it was AWFUL rattle would last an agonizing 45 seconds. Changed it out to PYB 5w30 and that got it down to just a couple seconds, but I've not been able to get past that mark.

I just recently started using MS5K (Thanx 2010_FX4).Believe it or not my engine is quieter upon start up since using this oil.As I stated before it was not super loud, just faint.It is less noticeable now but is still there upon start up.
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Well I believe I've hit on a good test plan.

I picked up a Motorcraft FL-400S this morning. I was originally going to put it on at my OCI, but I'll also be changing oil weight then. If the problem gets better or goes away I won't know if it was the filter, the oil or both that made the improvement.

So I'm going to put on the FL-400S filter now, but extend my actual OCI 1,000 miles or so. That way I'll definitely be able to tell if there's any improvement just by the filter change, and I'll just leave the new filter on and drain and fill the oil in 1k or so.

The FL-400S has everything I can think of that might help. The FL-1A has been one of the better filters I've tried, but the smallish capacity and silicone ADBV of the FL-400S may be even better. If it doesn't help I'll know no filter is likely going to, and I can move on to different oils and so forth.

It may be a characteristic of this Jeep I'm going to have to learn to live with but if I can lessen or eliminate it so much the better.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
KCJeep,report your findings ASAP.I'm very interested.


Indeed I will. If I get rattle right away I'll know I need to look elsewhere for a solution I'd think. If not, I'll likely wait a while to make sure it's not coincidence.
 
I suspect the oil filter is not the cause of the rattle, but it would be worth trying a real manufacturers filter just in case.
Oil wise it might be worth looking at trying an 0/30 or 0/40, also Liqui Moly make some special anti rattle additives that sometimes work, but it depends what the cause is.
LM Ceretec has a reputation for reducing noise, but I would try an 0W something oil with a real McCoy filter first to see if it makes a difference, before trying Snake oil.
Obviously it would be good to look for a physical solution if possible, but that might be expensive.
 
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