Best Choice/Deal in the Midsize Market?

[sciphi]

The Verano is the Cruze after it's gone to graduate school. It's quieter, rides better, is better-appointed inside, and is overall a much more refined car. Unless you get the Verano Turbo, it might not be appreciably faster than a Cruze since it does weigh a few hundred pounds more with only ~40 additional ponies and ~30 more ft/lbs.

For the Cruze, I really like the 1.4T in mine. It's fast enough for daily-driver duty, and not having to wind it up to get moving is really nice. It also gets great fuel economy on the highway. Seeing 38-42 mpg highway in a 1.4T/automatic Cruze is easily doable. Around town, expect about 32-33 mpg, less if there's lots of stop and go traffic.

 

[Cujet]

I rent Altima's all the time. Don't like driving them. Boring as a 4 cylinder Camry, but far less comfortable.

Consider the V6 Camry or Accord. Both are powerful cars, and both get 26MPG in real world driving, exactly the same as their 4 cylinder variants. (I rent those all the time also)

Seems you are looking for some substance and the V6 is the way to achieve it.

 

[jigen]

Originally Posted By: smc733


Originally Posted By: jigen
Sounds like no 4 cyl cars are going to make you happy. I thought the 4cyl Accords put out some decent 0-60 times. If that's too slow for you just go with a 6 cylinder.

I'd just go with the the V6 200. After rebates going on right now you can grab one for under 16k. You are looking for V6 power, comfort, and something that's not pricey. Just buy it.


The 4cyl Accord, Camry and Altima all put out enough power for me. The Camry SE is boring to me, but I liked the comfort of the XLE. I just prefer not to go Toyota. I do really like the V6 200, but it gets panned, and I can't figure out why. Sure, it may not be as "refined", but it is a proven 6speed, an older (now more reliable) platform, and a good engine, and the build quality is leaps and bounds above the Sebrings (which post-2006 didn't have that many problems). I just feel like everyone usually thinks the 200 will sink like a crater, but does that matter if 4k of hit is being taken off right from the start?.


I think the 200 is a bit underrated honestly, and for that price point it fits the bill for what you want (minus the MPG numbers). It has a waranty, and who cares if resale drops... how bad can it be when you can pick up a brand new 2013 V6 for less than $16,000.

I drove a V6 200, I liked it. Came well-equipped and has a really nice interior IMO. I am not ready to own an auto-trans yet, but that's me. What do you owe on your corolla? If you have a lot of money to put onto the $16k 200, it would be a nice feeling to know you didn't bring over a lump of debt.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: smc733

A friend of mine had a MS6, very nice car. Aren't they manual-only? I'd be happy with a CVT Maxima drive wise, just not when the $7k replacement comes knocking.



Mazdaspeed 6 is Direct Injection, turbocharged, all-wheel drive, manual only and only came in the 1st generation. They also have a few reliability issues. Some are really non-issues (ie: smoking turbo...run 5W40 Synthetic instead)

The 2nd gen 6S is a fwd 3.7 automatic only. Similar to the 3.7 in the Mustang and F-150.

When they first came out, I was checking a 2nd gen 6S Grand Touring out at a stoplight. Maybe I was staring too hard and made the female driver uncomfortable (don't flatter yourself lady...it was the car). She left that stoplight hard. I watched that thing rocket away and thought to myself, "My 3.0 doesn't do that!" as I slowly accelerated across the intersection.


I actually didn't mind the CVT so much in the Maxima. It was an okay driving experience in manual mode. If they would offer it with a traditional auto or a manual like they used to, I would consider it for myself. I just don't like motorscooter transmissions on anything except maybe a Suzuki Burgman or BMW C650.

 

[smc733]

Originally Posted By: jigen

I think the 200 is a bit underrated honestly, and for that price point it fits the bill for what you want (minus the MPG numbers). It has a waranty, and who cares if resale drops... how bad can it be when you can pick up a brand new 2013 V6 for less than $16,000.

I drove a V6 200, I liked it. Came well-equipped and has a really nice interior IMO. I am not ready to own an auto-trans yet, but that's me. What do you owe on your corolla? If you have a lot of money to put onto the $16k 200, it would be a nice feeling to know you didn't bring over a lump of debt.


That's what I think. I'm just worried about the big catch, either not being able to re-sell it, or having it [censored] out at 100k miles. I find the build quality to be fantastic on these cars, as is the drive.

I owe a relative about 5k on the Corolla, so I wouldn't be rolling much debt, and I should still stay at a net positive equity.

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

I actually didn't mind the CVT so much in the Maxima. It was an okay driving experience in manual mode. If they would offer it with a traditional auto or a manual like they used to, I would consider it for myself. I just don't like motorscooter transmissions on anything except maybe a Suzuki Burgman or BMW C650.


I'm worried more than anything else about the longevity of the CVT, though a car with that kind of power is disappointing with no shift points.

 

[97tbird]

2014 Mazda 6
Has won pretty much all mid-size comparisons so far.
My wife's gets between 37-38 avg very consistently.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
The Verano is the Cruze after it's gone to graduate school. It's quieter, rides better, is better-appointed inside, and is overall a much more refined car. Unless you get the Verano Turbo, it might not be appreciably faster than a Cruze since it does weigh a few hundred pounds more with only ~40 additional ponies and ~30 more ft/lbs.

For the Cruze, I really like the 1.4T in mine. It's fast enough for daily-driver duty, and not having to wind it up to get moving is really nice. It also gets great fuel economy on the highway. Seeing 38-42 mpg highway in a 1.4T/automatic Cruze is easily doable. Around town, expect about 32-33 mpg, less if there's lots of stop and go traffic.


I rented a Cruze LTZ and was very impressed with it.

If our Civic or Accord was stolen today, I would buy a Cruze.

 

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: smc733

To be honest, I don't want "sporty", as I don't really drive sporty. That said, I just feel like the Mazda didn't have enough get up and go at low RPMs, and this is apparently the case with them. I'm didn't say I wanted fantastic gas milage, just that I don't want terrible gas milage. The cost of any V6 with the exception of the 200 is more than I want to spend for car, let alone car + gas. As for DI and CVTs, it just seems like one too many people have been burned by them, and so many have told me to stay away.

I'm going to go see a Mazda 6 this weekend if I get a chance, I'm really open to giving it another look over. I will also have to see what the insurance company thinks about it, too. I'm not sure I can agree with best interior on the Mazda (though it was up there), but pretty much everything else on that list does seem to ring true. What about reliability?


I've test driven the Mazda 6 with the auto, and it had fantastic power from a launch, and I live in Denver, at over 5300 feet. I don't know why the one you test drove didn't feel good, but I assure you, the car is quite easy to get going quickly.

As for reliability, I've had nothing but great luck with my two Mazda's.

BC.

 

[Zako2]

Originally Posted By: smc733


Any 0-60 under 8 is more than enough, the problem is those tests are revving out the engines. I feel like the Accord had much more low-end power for smooth comfortable everyday driving than the Mazda, but I definitely need to give the 6 another chance. I would also have to get used to the styling of the 6.

I'd be happy with the CVT in the Accord Sport, if it wasn't for the reliability concern/nightmare coupled with GDI.


That's why perhaps so many people tend to like cars with strong low-end torque for daily driving. I heard someone mention that they like the Ford Fusion and VW Jetta TDI because of this. Even the 1.6L Fusion, while not a torque monster, gives a flatter torque curve than a gas engine. Also later this year Mazda6 will be coming our was with a 2.2L diesel engine.


By the way, I understand your concerns about reliability but it seems like by now everyone's car is selling with a new design. There may be some exceptions out there. Ford Fusion 2.5L is still the old, fuel injected naturally aspirated engine. It's one of the more affordable models and Fusion owners have mentioned that it is easier to get good MPG out of it.

 

[smc733]

Random question for you guys. But when a salesman asks you for a credit card to give you numbers, and then when you don't like those numbers, asks again in order to "do the numbers you want", am I right in thinking to run, fast?

 

[KitaCam]

Since I finance my own loan if I need to....

I just give them my bottom line...literally the final number that should be on the bottom line of the contract.

...they can do anything they want with numbers ABOVE THE LINE as long as the bottom line is the number I gave to them....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: smc733
Random question for you guys. But when a salesman asks you for a credit card to give you numbers, and then when you don't like those numbers, asks again in order to "do the numbers you want", am I right in thinking to run, fast?

Yeah, that sounds rather fishy.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
The Verano is the Cruze after it's gone to graduate school. It's quieter, rides better, is better-appointed inside, and is overall a much more refined car. Unless you get the Verano Turbo, it might not be appreciably faster than a Cruze since it does weigh a few hundred pounds more with only ~40 additional ponies and ~30 more ft/lbs.

For the Cruze, I really like the 1.4T in mine. It's fast enough for daily-driver duty, and not having to wind it up to get moving is really nice. It also gets great fuel economy on the highway. Seeing 38-42 mpg highway in a 1.4T/automatic Cruze is easily doable. Around town, expect about 32-33 mpg, less if there's lots of stop and go traffic.


Verano gets dreadful MPG 21/32 for a smallish car. Don't really get it.

 

[FXjohn]

I don't see what's not to like about the Cruze.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: smc733
Random question for you guys. But when a salesman asks you for a credit card to give you numbers, and then when you don't like those numbers, asks again in order to "do the numbers you want", am I right in thinking to run, fast?


Indeed, run away. The only time credit cards come into play is to put down a deposit onto a car after the deal has been worked out.

For the Verano's not-great fuel economy, it's a heavy, heavy car for its size. 3500 lbs or thereabouts. It also has a 2.4l engine or a 2.0T shoehorned under the hood. A Cruze is still heavy at 3200-3300 lbs (or 3000 flat for my Eco), but also gets a smaller engine for better cruising fuel efficiency. Between a Cruze LTZ and base Verano, I'd lean toward the Cruze myself since it has most of the refinement and much better fuel economy with similar performance.

 

[97tbird]

Just saw this on Mazda's Facebook page:

"...It's official. As announced by Autoblog.com, Automotive.com, Motor Trend Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, and others, our 2014 ‎#Mazda6 Grand Touring with i-ELOOP is the most fuel-efficient gasoline-powered midsize sedan in America, with an EPA-rated 40 highway MPG...."

 

[MCompact]

I test drove a Cruze Eco with the manual box(to get a $25 Visa card- thanks GM!), and while it is not remotely close to my cup of tea, I still thought it was a very pleasant drive and more than competitive in its market segment.

 

[antiqueshell]

It's either the latest Accord or new Mazda 6....both 4 cylinder models have plenty of get up and go, take your pick. I think the Mazda for sporty drivers Accord for not as sporty.

 

[Silverado12]

What about a leftover Impala? They get good mileage, have lots of power and actually have room inside with a big trunk. I bet you can get one cheap since they are being redesigned for 2014. Nobody sells parts cheaper and more available on the aftermarket than GM.

 

[k24a4]

Like others have said, Mazda6 or Accord Sport.

I can understand your trepidation with regard to the Honda CVT, but I would not let it override the merits of this current gen and here is why:

The Accord is Honda's flagship, with a stellar reputation. That reputation took a bit of a hit with the rather lackluster design of the previous generation. Couple that with the tepid Civic redesign, and, Imo you have a company focused on regaining its footing, with something to prove. This, by the way, is not even mentioning the incredible competition in this market segment.

The transmission issues of the past were with the v6 equipped Accords from '97 to 2002.

Honda is late coming to market with CVT and DI, advancements that are here to stay. Trust me, they have done their homework. There is no indication of any DI or CVT related issues with the current gen Accord, which has been on sale since last November (and selling well), and in all probability has several million miles collectively accrued.

Bitog recently had several uoa's posted on the new DI Accord, and it is looking good.

AHM stands behind their products. They were known to be quite generous with the aforementioned v6 transmission issues, and, in general, are regarded as being above average when dealing with Warranty claims. I'm referring to the parent company. Individual dealership experiences may vary.

In short, while I think your concerns about the new Accord may have some degree of merit, as they concern the CVT and DI, I would not let them overshadow the overall package or override your decision to keep it on the list.

That said, if I were in the market I'd be taking the Mazda6 out for some spins as well.