Best 20 Weight Oil for Fuel Dilution & Break-In.

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Schaefer 9000 has values that you may want to consider.
Schaefferoil.com
I think all the oils you are considering will work well. Do consider that Honda HTO-6 specification though, I think it is a stringent one to achieve.
Good luck and enjoy the new ride.
 
Honda has built at least a few engines and turbos are nothing new to them.
It may be that Honda knows more about the proper break-in of this engine than you or I.
You can follow their advice or you can listen to people here who've never even torn down an engine.
Fuel contamination may not be that big of a deal.
There are a number of UOAs here of oils from DI Hondas and they don't show any excess wear metals.
There are also some from DI GM engines that show absurd wear metals levels, so who knows?
In your case, I'd listen to Honda. They have a long history of building great four cylinder engines and I doubt that they'd jeopardize their well earned reputation with unfounded oil grade or drain interval recommendations.
As mediocre a driver as our '12 Accord and the current generation might be as compared to previous generations, I have no doubts as to the mechanical integrity of its engine.
For the record, I ran the FF 8700 miles and 15% MM, just as Honda recommended.
 
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Schaefer 9000 has values that you may want to consider.
Schaefferoil.com
I think all the oils you are considering will work well. Do consider that Honda HTO-6 specification though, I think it is a stringent one to achieve.
Good luck and enjoy the new ride.


Thanks I almost forgot about Schaefferoil, it' not a name that is seen in our parts too often but I know that I can order it. Thanks for the advice on the Honda spec, I will definitely keep that in mind.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Honda has built at least a few engines and turbos are nothing new to them.
It may be that Honda knows more about the proper break-in of this engine than you or I.
You can follow their advice or you can listen to people here who've never even torn down an engine.
Fuel contamination may not be that big of a deal.
There are a number of UOAs here of oils from DI Hondas and they don't show any excess wear metals.
There are also some from DI GM engines that show absurd wear metals levels, so who knows?
In your case, I'd listen to Honda. They have a long history of building great four cylinder engines and I doubt that they'd jeopardize their well earned reputation with unfounded oil grade or drain interval recommendations.
As mediocre a driver as our '12 Accord and the current generation might be as compared to previous generations, I have no doubts as to the mechanical integrity of its engine.
For the record, I ran the FF 8700 miles and 15% MM, just as Honda recommended.


They definitely know more than us when it comes to turbos. This new 1.5L features some new flow modifications that were not likely in their other DI motors, so hopefully that helps to keep fuel dilution lower , it's always possible. Thanks !
 
I was browsing the Amsoil website and did not see the Honda spec listed for 0w20, I did see it for 5w30 though. Same thing with Castrol Edge Titanium EP, only 5w30 applies, and same thing with Pennzoil Ultra P, only 5w30 applies, no 20 weights ?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: kjbock
Doesn't Honda still use break-in oil? My Acura had high Moly break-in oil.

I would keep factory fill in there until the MM is at 5-10% before changing.

Don't know if they're still doing it but the high moly in Hondas began with MY 2011 as part of the "fix" for VCM failures that ultimately lead to a successful class action lawsuit. The moly didn't start in the oil...it was a process that impregnated moly into the piston skirts resulting in a slow release into the motor oil and the factory's insistence that the FF be left in until the OLM wound down (~6000 miles in our Accord ).

As to the OP's question, no oil stands up to fuel dilution. But I like TGMO.


I don't know about that. There was high moly break-in oil in my 2003 Honda Accord and 2006 Honda Civic as well, both of which where 4-cylinder engines.
 
Originally Posted By: kjbock
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: kjbock
Doesn't Honda still use break-in oil? My Acura had high Moly break-in oil.

I would keep factory fill in there until the MM is at 5-10% before changing.

Don't know if they're still doing it but the high moly in Hondas began with MY 2011 as part of the "fix" for VCM failures that ultimately lead to a successful class action lawsuit. The moly didn't start in the oil...it was a process that impregnated moly into the piston skirts resulting in a slow release into the motor oil and the factory's insistence that the FF be left in until the OLM wound down (~6000 miles in our Accord ).

As to the OP's question, no oil stands up to fuel dilution. But I like TGMO.


I don't know about that. There was high moly break-in oil in my 2003 Honda Accord and 2006 Honda Civic as well, both of which where 4-cylinder engines.


Yes correct high moly Honda break in oil has been around for quite a few years, I'd say at least 2003 and probably before too.
 
Originally Posted By: JS2000


Yes correct high moly Honda break in oil has been around for quite a few years, I'd say at least 2003 and probably before too.


It's actually high moly assembly grease and or high moly sealing compounds used at the factory that work their way into the engine oil on first fill.

Regardless Honda want the moly left in there for the stated interval for break in purposes.
 
Honda doesn't use a special break in oil. The added molybdenum comes from assembly lubes used to protect bearings, cams etc on initial start up. But Honda seems to believe the added moly helps to ensure a good break in, thus the suggestion to leave the factory fill in for a normal OCI. This seems like good advice; if you think it's too long try to wait at least 5,000 miles before the first change.

And you may or not have fuel dilution. Blackstone will tell you you don't, Polaris will tell you you do and Honda won't care either way. My advice is to forget UOAs and just drive it. It's not worth the trip down the rabbit hole imho...
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Honda doesn't use a special break in oil. The added molybdenum comes from assembly lubes used to protect bearings, cams etc on initial start up. But Honda seems to believe the added moly helps to ensure a good break in, thus the suggestion to leave the factory fill in for a normal OCI. This seems like good advice; if you think it's too long try to wait at least 5,000 miles before the first change.

And you may or not have fuel dilution. Blackstone will tell you you don't, Polaris will tell you you do and Honda won't care either way. My advice is to forget UOAs and just drive it. It's not worth the trip down the rabbit hole imho...



That's some [censored] good advice, you make a lot of sense. For some strange reason I always think that I am going to keep a vehicle forever, in actuality I tend to get rid of them every few years so fuel dilution probably won't mean much in 5 year so less. I should just learn to drive the cars and not worry about oil or fuel, life would be easier that way - Thanks !
 
Even if you were to keep this vehicle many years, i don't see how following Honda's recommendations would be counterintuitive. Nice car, enjoy it.

HTO-06 is not 'the elephant in the room'. That's an old spec (2009+ RDX) when API SM was the flavor, that Honda didn't see fit to apply to its current Turbo/0w20 applications.
 
Originally Posted By: JS2000
I was browsing the Amsoil website and did not see the Honda spec listed for 0w20, I did see it for 5w30 though. Same thing with Castrol Edge Titanium EP, only 5w30 applies, and same thing with Pennzoil Ultra P, only 5w30 applies, no 20 weights ?


Schaefer 9000 0w20 is HTO-6 spec'd. If you need it.
 
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Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: JS2000
I was browsing the Amsoil website and did not see the Honda spec listed for 0w20, I did see it for 5w30 though. Same thing with Castrol Edge Titanium EP, only 5w30 applies, and same thing with Pennzoil Ultra P, only 5w30 applies, no 20 weights ?


Schaefer 9000 0w20 is HTO-6 spec'd. If you need it.


Good info, thanks, looks like this and the QS product are two that meet the spec, not many others out there. Thank you for posting.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Even if you were to keep this vehicle many years, i don't see how following Honda's recommendations would be counterintuitive. Nice car, enjoy it.

HTO-06 is not 'the elephant in the room'. That's an old spec (2009+ RDX) when API SM was the flavor, that Honda didn't see fit to apply to its current Turbo/0w20 applications.



My only concern is that if high fuel dilution occurs, the manufacturer is not going to readily admit it, or offer to deal with it based on any UOA I take/provide. So I believe fuel dilution can be harmful and I don't want to wait 5 years to find out how it might rear its ugly head. I am fine with the 0w20 viscosity recommendation if the motor operates as intended, but if I do find fuel going forward I want to be able to make adjustments to compensate.

Thanks for the reply and kind words !
 
Originally Posted By: JS2000
Originally Posted By: wemay
Even if you were to keep this vehicle many years, i don't see how following Honda's recommendations would be counterintuitive. Nice car, enjoy it.

HTO-06 is not 'the elephant in the room'. That's an old spec (2009+ RDX) when API SM was the flavor, that Honda didn't see fit to apply to its current Turbo/0w20 applications.



My only concern is that if high fuel dilution occurs, the manufacturer is not going to readily admit it, or offer to deal with it based on any UOA I take/provide. So I believe fuel dilution can be harmful and I don't want to wait 5 years to find out how it might rear its ugly head. I am fine with the 0w20 viscosity recommendation if the motor operates as intended, but if I do find fuel going forward I want to be able to make adjustments to compensate.

Thanks for the reply and kind words !


That is an understandable concern. My Santa Fe is a 2.0 Tubo GDI - it has shown dilution in past UOA, but as someone stated earlier, the wear metals were well in check. I don't worry about it any more. Every Direct Injected vehicle will show some, no matter the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: JS2000
Two Part Question:

I'm in the early stages of owning my 2016 Honda Civic 1.5 L turbo motor. I'm preparing to find some fuel dilution when it comes to do a used oil analysis which may come around 10k kilometres give or take. I will likely pull a sample 1/2 way through the run and send it out for testing.

The latest VOA's of Honda's 0w-20 don't look like anything special, I'd be interested in the Mazda 0w-20 oil but it is geared to being thin for efficiency reasons and is thinner than the Honda fluid AFAIK. My personal preference would be to run Red Line's 0w-20, it looks to be very well built, but my Honda dealer won't likely install it if supplied to them and I've got a 5 year power train warranty that I need to maintain. I might explore asking them but I think that I know the answer.

My other choice would be between Amsoil signature series, Penzoil Ultra, or Mobil1.

Secondly, Honda's manual seems to indicate that most of the break-in is done by 600 miles, but the dealer always says to keep the factory oil until 5,000 miles +. I know two race engine builders in my area. One of them tells me that break-in of the rings is mostly done in the first 100 miles. The other builder breaks in his motors with a 1/2 dozen controlled runs on his engine dyno and that is it. Any suggestions how long I should leave the factory fill in this engine ?

Thanks for any replies.


Hi JS2000 - We'd love to offer you the opportunity to try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum through our Used Oil Analysis program. Through the program, we'd send you two samples of our motor oil along with testing supplies for Blackstone so you can compare the oil that's currently in your engine to Pennzoil Synthetics with results from an unbiased lab. If you're interested, please send us a private message for more details. Talk soon! - Gena & The Pennzoil Team
 
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
JS2000 said:
Two Part Question:

I'm in the early stages of owning my 2016 Honda Civic 1.5 L turbo motor. I'm preparing to find some fuel dilution when it comes to do a used oil analysis which may come around 10k kilometres give or take. I will likely pull a sample 1/2 way through the run and send it out for testing.

The latest VOA's of Honda's 0w-20 don't look like anything special, I'd be interested in the Mazda 0w-20 oil but it is geared to being thin for efficiency reasons and is thinner than the Honda fluid AFAIK. My personal preference would be to run Red Line's 0w-20, it looks to be very well built, but my Honda dealer won't likely install it if supplied to them and I've got a 5 year power train warranty that I need to maintain. I might explore asking them but I think that I know the answer.

My other choice would be between Amsoil signature series, Penzoil Ultra, or Mobil1.

Secondly, Honda's manual seems to indicate that most of the break-in is done by 600 miles, but the dealer always says to keep the factory oil until 5,000 miles +. I know two race engine builders in my area. One of them tells me that break-in of the rings is mostly done in the first 100 miles. The other builder breaks in his motors with a 1/2 dozen controlled runs on his engine dyno and that is it. Any suggestions how long I should leave the factory fill in this engine ?

Thanks for any replies.


Hi JS2000 - We'd love to offer you the opportunity to try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum through our Used Oil Analysis program. Through the program, we'd send you two samples of our motor oil along with testing supplies for Blackstone so you can compare the oil that's currently in your engine to Pennzoil Synthetics with results from an unbiased lab. If you're interested, please send us a private message for more details. Talk soon! - Gena & The Pennzoil Team [/quot

JS2000, the free oil us nice, but aware that Blackstone's fuel dilution measurement (based on flashpoint which is based on human observation)is imprecise at Best.

In my case, Blackstone estimated 1% dilution despite a 0w-20 viscosity of 6.2 (fresh = 8.7) after 2,300 miles. Under similar driving conditions/mileage with a viscosity of 7.0, Polaris, which uses more precise gas chromotography,determined fuel dilution of >5%. If you want to feel good, use Blackstone. If you want a more reliable fuel dilution reading, look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
JS2000 said:
Two Part Question:

I'm in the early stages of owning my 2016 Honda Civic 1.5 L turbo motor. I'm preparing to find some fuel dilution when it comes to do a used oil analysis which may come around 10k kilometres give or take. I will likely pull a sample 1/2 way through the run and send it out for testing.

The latest VOA's of Honda's 0w-20 don't look like anything special, I'd be interested in the Mazda 0w-20 oil but it is geared to being thin for efficiency reasons and is thinner than the Honda fluid AFAIK. My personal preference would be to run Red Line's 0w-20, it looks to be very well built, but my Honda dealer won't likely install it if supplied to them and I've got a 5 year power train warranty that I need to maintain. I might explore asking them but I think that I know the answer.

My other choice would be between Amsoil signature series, Penzoil Ultra, or Mobil1.

Secondly, Honda's manual seems to indicate that most of the break-in is done by 600 miles, but the dealer always says to keep the factory oil until 5,000 miles +. I know two race engine builders in my area. One of them tells me that break-in of the rings is mostly done in the first 100 miles. The other builder breaks in his motors with a 1/2 dozen controlled runs on his engine dyno and that is it. Any suggestions how long I should leave the factory fill in this engine ?

Thanks for any replies.


Hi JS2000 - We'd love to offer you the opportunity to try Pennzoil Ultra Platinum through our Used Oil Analysis program. Through the program, we'd send you two samples of our motor oil along with testing supplies for Blackstone so you can compare the oil that's currently in your engine to Pennzoil Synthetics with results from an unbiased lab. If you're interested, please send us a private message for more details. Talk soon! - Gena & The Pennzoil Team [/quot

JS2000, the free oil us nice, but aware that Blackstone's fuel dilution measurement (based on flashpoint which is based on human observation)is imprecise at Best.

In my case, Blackstone estimated 1% dilution despite a 0w-20 viscosity of 6.2 (fresh = 8.7) after 2,300 miles. Under similar driving conditions/mileage with a viscosity of 7.0, Polaris, which uses more precise gas chromotography,determined fuel dilution of >5%. If you want to feel good, use Blackstone. If you want a more reliable fuel dilution reading, look elsewhere.


More great information, it's too bad there is such variation in testing methods.

I once had the oil in my Honda S2000 tested a couple years back from CAT who has a testing facility in my Province and I send it through the local CAT/ Toromont dealer. They measured fuel dilution at that time of 4%, so they must have had an accurate way of measuring it. I was glad for that as I was able to swap out my injectors immediately to correct the issue.
Click to expand...
 
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