Benefits of 0W

[OVERKILL]

Volvo RBS0-2AE
MB 229.71

and probably a bunch more.

According to the Afton handbook, 229.71 allows 5W-20

 

[Kalle.J]

PSA B71 apparently, 0W-20 only

Which one

 

[OVERKILL]

Which one

View attachment 244228

The first one, lol

 

[Kalle.J]

According to the Afton handbook, 229.71 allows 5W-20
View attachment 244227

Hmm kay only 0W on the list.

 

[OVERKILL]

Hmm kay only 0W on the list.

Yeah, may be one of those technically permitted, but from a formulation perspective, doesn't make sense to actually develop.

 

[kschachn]

Volvo RBS0-2AE
MB 229.71

and probably a bunch more.

The Volvo one is an approval or a specification?

And technically they are allowed grades, not requirements like HT/HS is. But I will help you out with one more I think, VW 508 00.

 

[kschachn]

You are being a nitpick again!

You know what I mean, and I know that you know, but you can't help it.

I am sure you can read a whole book and find a sentence or two to dissect and find flaws ... Political campaigns are hiring big time right now! I would utilize that talent. lol

By "requiring a 0W", I meant requiring a base oil that would ultimately meet the SAE 0W as such can no longer be labeled a 5 or 10W, etc.

I won't be surprised if you dissect this also. Like I said, you can't help it.

That is a load. Post accurate information and all of this can be avoided.

 

[4WD]

The shear monster. I’ve seen viscosity deviations per Blackstone. Is there shear?

Aside from BS short comings - for me, there is a gut check in all of it. The most visible sheared oil and the worst oxidation (thixotropic) I have seen - had 2 things in common. They reeked of gasoline - and did mostly short trips … (and those wreak havoc on lubes) …

 

[4WD]

I think the oil pump drag's impact (due to thick oil) on starting speed is often overplayed, so you and I are on the same page. That pesky T in the arrhenius equation. Battery performance drops fast enough IMO to be the dominant factor. I was implying the 20w-40 pumping/flow performance at 0 F would have been like the specified 5w-30 at -33 F in the given thought experiment.

I'll throw a wrench in the understanding of many, including myself. It appears that the 0w-40 is actually thicker at cold temperatures (circa 0 deg F) than a 5w-30. Am I misunderstanding or is this a lapse in layman oil grade casual knowledge? (The 100 C rating impacts the slope of the curve through the second data point.) In which case, 0w means something, but not when taken out of context.

Plotted: 0w-40 (orange) vs 5w-20 (pink) vs 10w-30 (green) down to 0 deg C (-18 F). The nominal 10w-30 is actually thinner than the 0w-40 within the range of "cold" starting that matters to most of us.

View attachment 244167

Are these curves erroneous? Can the V vs T curve be completely understood with two points, 40 C and 100C, or is there more to the story at the extremes?

It’s tough. We often hear pump-able and positive displacement pump here. Then the parasitic impacts of viscosity/density. Great if I have a pump and pipe and going from tank A to tank B. However, this is flow distribution dynamics for your vehicle …

 

[Kalle.J]

The Volvo one is an approval or a specification?

And technically they are allowed grades, not requirements like HT/HS is. But I will help you out with one more I think, VW 508 00.

OR?

Approval, with a specification I hope

 

[Jetronic]

Not cold starts? And by cold I mean cold like -40 cold? Not ambient 70 degree Fl winter.

Sure in FL, it does not matter, but 0w30 really made a big difference in startup in -40 temps. Is that not due to the "0" as opposed to "10"

at -40° the only appropriate oils are 0W-xx

 

[Jetronic]

Am I correct in saying a 20w-40 at 0 C is actually thicker than a SAE 20w (not to be confused with SAE 20) at same temperature?

Most likely yes. Multigrade oils behave very much like their summer rating suggest until about freezing. There's some effect from the VII above that but not a whole lot.

 

[OilUzer]

at -40° the only appropriate oils are 0W-xx

I would also chase a block heater!

 

[Jetronic]

I would also chase a block heater!

True but I wouldn't rely on just a block heater, I would want an oil fluid enough for the temperatures.

 

[johnmyster]

It’s tough. We often hear pump-able and positive displacement pump here.

Sometimes we hear more about something because it's important. Sometimes we hear more about something because of a specific broken-record contributor and his dead horse beating.

Most likely yes. Multigrade oils behave very much like their summer rating suggest until about freezing. There's some effect from the VII above that but not a whole lot.

My (trivial) point is/was that within the temperature range of "cold" starts that matter for many of us, simply stating a 0w will flow/perform/protect better is not the whole picture. I've shown that a 10w-30 and a 5w-20 have lower viscosity than a 0w-40 down to freezing, and in the case of the 5w-20, beyond. I acknowledge that freezing is just getting started for some users but it bounds the thought experiment at hand.

The OP stated that "cold" is 40 deg F. The choice between 10w-30, 5w-40, and 0w-40 is really moot. He is not within the range where differences will show, For him the "hot" rating dictates more of the experience, so I tend to side with his statement in point #7. Other factors are probably more of a priority for his oil selection than the winter grade.

But that M1 0w-40 is a really good oil and I would not hesitate to run it in Florida, just as I run it year-around in Virginia in our family car.

 

[Jetronic]

Sometimes we hear more about something because it's important. Sometimes we hear more about something because of a specific broken-record contributor and his dead horse beating.

My (trivial) point is/was that within the temperature range of "cold" starts that matter for many of us, simply stating a 0w will flow/perform/protect better is not the whole picture. I've shown that a 10w-30 and a 5w-20 have lower viscosity than a 0w-40 down to freezing, and in the case of the 5w-20, beyond. I acknowledge that freezing is just getting started for some users but it bounds the thought experiment at hand.

The OP stated that "cold" is 40 deg F. The choice between 10w-30, 5w-40, and 0w-40 is really moot. He is not within the range where differences will show, For him the "hot" rating dictates more of the experience, so I tend to side with his statement in point #7. Other factors are probably more of a priority for his oil selection than the winter grade.

But that M1 0w-40 is a really good oil and I would not hesitate to run it in Florida, just as I run it year-around in Virginia in our family car.

I've ran red line 20W-50 in an application that normally gets 5W30 C2 oils, I sure am not afraid of a bit thicker oil, cold or hot. 20W-xx is about as thick as I would like to go though in our moderate climate.

Currently running 10W30 no VII in an engine calling for 0W-20

 

[OilUzer]

I've ran red line 20W-50 in an application that normally gets 5W30 C2 oils, I sure am not afraid of a bit thicker oil, cold or hot. 20W-xx is about as thick as I would like to go though in our moderate climate.

Currently running 10W30 no VII in an engine calling for 0W-20

10W-30 with no vm got me excited. lol

Which 10W-30 do you use? Amsoil? I think Amsoil SS has very low vm and very low 4.1 Noack. I'm cheap and use M1 EP 10W-30.

 

[Jetronic]

Im cheap too so I use Ravenol. 3.3% Noack Isay VII free but that's a guess only. it's got very little of it though, and ravenol claims no oil related deposits in the ringlands, combustion chamber or valves, nor change in oil viscosity.

RAVENOL Motobike 4-T Ester SAE 10W-30

RAVENOL Motobike 4-T Ester SAE 10W-30 is a future-oriented engine oil which was especially produced for 4 stroke motorbikes. It provides a fuel saving oper...

www.ravenol.de

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Which approvals require a 0W winter rating?

Funny you mention that. I've yet to come across a 5w20 with a BMW or Mercedes approval.

 

[svenson]

I've ran red line 20W-50 in an application that normally gets 5W30 C2 oils, I sure am not afraid of a bit thicker oil, cold or hot. 20W-xx is about as thick as I would like to go though in our moderate climate.

Currently running 10W30 no VII in an engine calling for 0W-20

ok, now i am really curious about where you live man..
and how is your mg doing? i am interested on getting one ,looks good ,but i dont know .. Chinese quality?