Bad Compression in 2 cylinders, and opinions on using CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner for piston soak?

[merkababa]

Hi guys,

What do you think regarding this idea? From my understanding, it has plenty of PEA, it's pretty aggressive. Should It be safe If I change my oil after the treatment?

Also, it's my first message here, I been lurking here for a while, but finally decided to join to this amazing place

Some Background:
I have Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV with 1.75TBi 4 cyl engine, with 180,000 km on it. Bought it with 158,000 on the odometer.

Done compression check last week:
Dry Results: 148-120-135-150 psi. The wet compression result of both middle cylinders resulted in 150 psi in each cylinder.
Previously, tried adding some restore engine oil additive with no results.
Currently, I have two bottles of AutoRX inside my oil for the last 2,500 km. The oil used is Motul X-clean 5w40.
After doing the wet compression and riding the car hard (as always), I had the third cylinder compression going from 125 to the 135 psi mark, I suspect It had a stuck ring.
This made me think that the piston in the second cylinder might have a stuck ring, and a piston soak may do something good.
Last 20,000 I had changed the oil each 4,000 km to remove previous sludge that might be built by previous owners (oil has been changed each 10-15k km by previous owners).

I'm still waiting for the b12 chemtool to arrive from the US, but thinking maybe to give the CRC a try as a piston soak, if it's safe. Could not find any information on the Internet thought.
Forgot to mention that the engine revs pretty well, with plenty of power. Also, I haven't done any engine flush yet.

What would be your next step?

 

[Rand]

scope to look at valves possible?
thats a very detailed first post.. welcome to bitog.

 

[merkababa]

Hi, thanks

Got pictures of the intake valves - sorry for the bad quality as it was taken with a cheap horoscope I got from eBay.
The pictures have taken a month ago. I had used some Liqui Moly Pro-Line Throttle Valve Cleaner before in the recommended way.
I'm planning to take off the intake manifold in the next month and soak the valves with the CRC GDI IVD while using a toothbrush to clean them and use some towel/paper towel to soak in the mess.

I would like to hear some guidelines from you guys about those procedures as it's basically my first car that I'm planning to do my own maintenance, as I could not find any professional mechanic in my area.

 

[Audios]

I found the GM injector cleaning liquid extremely potent, and will chew up the carbon after a few minutes soaking. I usually do an ounce in each runner and then fill with brake clean to completely cover the head and stem. Also, Wurth sells a 3 part kit, and the liquid thats supposed to be sprayed into the intake manifold is very potent as well, makes me wonder if its the same stuff.

Amazon.com: Genuine GM 19355198 Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner-16 Oz., Pack of 1 : Automotive

Buy Genuine GM 19355198 Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner-16 Oz., Pack of 1: Fuel Injectors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

smile.amazon.com

This seems to be the same stuff as I ordered, mine has a small measuring area on top to measure out 1 oz doses.

 

[wpod]

Head gasket doing an internet diagnosis. Are the valves adjustable?

 

[ripcord]

Those valves don't look bad at all. I wouldn't bother with the manual cleaning job as it will not gain you anything.

Looking at the MSDS for the CRC and Berrymans products, I would say they would probably be pretty similar in effect. Both are mostly petroleum distillates and solvents. A piston soak might help if you have a sticky ring on piston #2, but it may just be worn rings, especially if the air filters were not kept up in a dusty environment like the middle east.

 

[merkababa]

I'm not an expert by any means but wouldn't the wet compression be equal to the dry one if it was the head gasket or the valves leaking?
Also no water in the oil or oil in the water. The engine does burn oil, around 1 liter for 2,500 km of hard-driving. The coolant is very stable.

I have also done a combustion co2 leak test with fluid and had a really slight change to the green color, and it took around 45 minutes to begin to see the difference in the color change, so I'm not sure that it's the head gasket that lowering the compression.
The attached image was taken around 1 hour after I began the test. From what I understand, If there was a serious leak, I would see the color change to the yellowish shades within 15 minutes or so.

I'm not sure if the valves are adjustable.

 

[ripcord]

Your bore scope may give you an indication of the condition of your cylinder walls and the amount of carbon near the ring lands.

 

[merkababa]

Hi ripcord, thanks for the answers!

I have uploaded a video I took of the cylinders, but the depth of field of my bore scope is zoomed in, and I doubt that anything useful can be seen in this video. Also, both of the middle cylinders were wet when I took the video as it was after I have done the compression test.

Another question I have is, what is the recommended time to soak the pistons in the b-12 chemtool for example? I know that there is no magic number but some rule of thumb will give me proportions.
I saw that people on bitog recommend soaking the pistons for few hours to a few days, but from other videos of the CRC for example, I was able to see that the carbon on the intake valves is getting dissolved in a matter of minutes with a recommendation to remove the residue before the solvents getting evaporated.

Link to the useless video of inside the cylinders :

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

First suspect if wet test improved things is you have either wear issues or stuck rings. Since you've seen compression go up with hard driving...looking like stuck rings. In my experience it is lowest risk and cost/time to just put your cleaners in the fuel system only (e.g. Berryman B-12 or Gumout Multi-system, both work very well in my experience) and then drive the engine at 4k rpms or higher as much as possible. A piston soak is more risky IMO and lower down on the list where the bottom of the list is "get rid of this car". After that I'd consider a piston soak, but I don't have much knowledge to add with that. The above (clean via fuel system and drive hard) has always worked for me, but it does take patience.

 

[Bill_W]

When the two low cylinders are next to each other, might be a head gasket.

 

[merkababa]

I think that if it was the head gasket between the cylinders or a crack in the block, the compression would be the same between those two cylinders.

Also, I'm invested in this car with a lot of modifications I have done last year, so I better rebuild the engine or swap to another one before I get rid of the car.

No felt power loss or any issue felt, just trying to figure out the real reason for the issue, so no further damage is done.

I decided to wait for the B-12 chemtool to perform the piston soak, and once it will arrive, I will update with the results.

Many thanks for all of the answers!

 

[circuitsmith]

IMO, good wet compression rules out gasket and valve problems.
I would proceed with the piston soak.
Lay rags over the plug holes and crank the engine to kick the stuff out when done.

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

B-12 Chemtool ingredients are so harsh it is like canned cancer - take care with it. Also make sure it doesn’t get on any paint.

 

[Gene K]

Why is everyone so afraid of Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30. I know you have to go to a Cummins Dealer to get it and it isn't cheap but freeing stuck rings is what it's designed to do.

 

[ripcord]

The OP is in the Israel and probably doesn't have any Cummins dealerships near by.

 

[merkababa]

Hi Gene K, thanks for your suggestion!
I live in Israel, and unfortunately, this product is not available locally.

I have already ordered tens of gallons of liquids from the US in the past, but currently, due to the COVID-19 situation, the shipping of one gallon of Valvoline Blue Restore is around 480$, so it's not a practical solution.

Are there some substitutes exist for this product or is it the only one of its class? I'm currently running two bottles of ARX in my oil, I thought it has some similar functionality.

 

[NewtonPulsifer]

That stuff is like 50% ester and 30% PAO (synthetic oil base). Normally that much ester would eat away all seals. Since it doesn't, it must be bio based.

The only easily available bio based ester I can think of is biodiesel (make sure its 98%+ actual biodiesel not some 20% biodiesel blend with aggressive marketing). Please don't construe this as me recommending you fill your crankcase with 50% biodiesel! You could put 1:128 biodiesel:gasoline in your fuel safely, but it would lower your octane rating slightly so might not be cost effective.

Lubegard Biotech is bio ester based - 3 ounces per quart in the crankcase.

Bio/Tech Engine Oil Protectant - Lubegard

www.lubegard.com

Auto-Rx has the cyclohex(anone,ane,ene) family in it and some ester but it is dosed in conservative quantities. The right way to do it IMO. Like BG 109 EPR and maybe others also have cyclohex*. Effective, sure, but a little old school in 2020. Heh, limonene (citrus oil cleaner) is a cyclohexene that could maybe be a cheap oil additive - and it smells good. PEA is considered the modern best practice (Gumout, CRC, Techron). B-12 Chemtool and Seafoam are very very old school petroleum and alcohol solvents. They do also work and are cheap (well Chemtool is, Seafoam is overpriced).

I still recommend putting these things in the fuel system. Like Gumout Multi-System. It's slower but a sure thing and zero chance of unintended damage/consequences.

 

[OilUzer]

Curious why this subject takes over half of my screen when I'm on the main page?

 

[nthach]

I'm not an expert by any means but wouldn't the wet compression be equal to the dry one if it was the head gasket or the valves leaking?
Also no water in the oil or oil in the water. The engine does burn oil, around 1 liter for 2,500 km of hard-driving. The coolant is very stable.

I have also done a combustion co2 leak test with fluid and had a really slight change to the green color, and it took around 45 minutes to begin to see the difference in the color change, so I'm not sure that it's the head gasket that lowering the compression.
The attached image was taken around 1 hour after I began the test. From what I understand, If there was a serious leak, I would see the color change to the yellowish shades within 15 minutes or so.

I'm not sure if the valves are adjustable.

That’s clever using a homebrewing airlock for the BHG CO test.