Awaiting new Hyundai Theta II Engine Install

[2strokeNorthstar]

Just be happy they are willing to fix it. When Ford screwed up assembling engines with metal shaving between the head mounting surface causing leaks they just released a tsb and some new headgasket design to go around the damaged sealing surface. There was no free replacement program even when it was clear that they messed up.

 

[Bigvman23]

Hi all,

First post here on the forum. I have a 9 year-old Hyundai Sonata (2017) that I purchased new. It only has 50k miles at time of this post. While I changed oil every 5k miles, I never had to research all of the gremlins this engine is known-for. It’s been a solid car for most of our time with it, and it saw nothing but short trips and not even work commutes. Given the low mileage, I’m assuming we just got lucky for nearly a decade and were due for the inevitable. Thank goodness it’s still under warranty.

For the first time ever last week, the car went into limp-mode. I confirmed it threw the 1386 code (crank sensor). Car is now at the dealer, and so-far the service department is signaling that a new motor is likely.

If it pans-out that way, I’d appreciate recommended break-in oil types/viscocity/schedules specific to this type of engine (modern, poorly-assembled GDI) and circumstance (might only getting a new long-block). If you’re experienced with this engine and any successful mitigation strategy, I’d appreciate your take. We need this car to last as long as possible.

As an aside, I’m a fan of Super Tech synthetic oils and wonder if anyone could weigh-in on the utility of using their conventional variant before migrating to FS (for break-in). If I’m simplifying the matter, or if this has been covered at-length, please forgive my ignorance. I’d like input and perspective as current as possible. Thanks in advance.

My 2015 Sonata 2.4 Theta went out on me August of 2022. Literally sounded like the loudest diesel you'd ever heard. I was surprised I got it to the dealership for them to examine it, had to drive it about 25 miles to their shop, not sure it would have went another 2-3 miles before completely locking up. Anyway, took them about 5 minutes before the service guy came out and said yep, we're going to replace it (long block). Almost 4 years later and about 50,000 miles, running great and so far no oil burn. Changing oil every 3-4,000 miles using Penzoil Platinum 5w-20. After digging into motor oil pretty heavily the past few months, I think I'm going to bump up to 5w-30 and probably run 2-3 cycles of Valvoline restore and protect. Like I said, it's not burning oil, but running RAP a few cycles will probably do it good being a GDI and the potential there to gum up the rings. One thing I did change with my driving, I drive it more "spirited" every so often, usually when approaching empty and need a fill-up, getting the RPMs up there and building a little more pressure and heat. I'm one of those guys who likes to squeeze every ounce of MPG out of all my vehicles, so I drive fairly "gingerly". But these GDI engines especially benefit from the old Italian tune-up every now and then.

 

[tired]

. After digging into motor oil pretty heavily the past few months, I think I'm going to bump up to 5w-30 and probably run 2-3 cycles of Valvoline restore and protect.

You'd be very wise to switch to Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and never change. These engines burn very frequently. Pennzoil Platinum is a mediocre oil at best. 100% chance you already have deposits on your rings. It's not a guarantee that if you develop oil burning it will resolve with Valvoline Restore and Protect. There is zero reason not to do this. However if you are somehow opposed to Valvoline Restore and Protect forever, then I'd run it for 20,000 miles (4 changes) minimum and then switch to a good Euro oil like Mobil 1 Euro FS 0W-40 or Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. In my mind, those are your only choices for that engine. @Mainia can share his experience as well with jammed rings and burning oil on even much better oils than Pennzoil Platinum.

 

[snail415]

My 2015 Sonata 2.4 Theta went out on me August of 2022. Literally sounded like the loudest diesel you'd ever heard. I was surprised I got it to the dealership for them to examine it, had to drive it about 25 miles to their shop, not sure it would have went another 2-3 miles before completely locking up. Anyway, took them about 5 minutes before the service guy came out and said yep, we're going to replace it (long block). Almost 4 years later and about 50,000 miles, running great and so far no oil burn. Changing oil every 3-4,000 miles using Penzoil Platinum 5w-20. After digging into motor oil pretty heavily the past few months, I think I'm going to bump up to 5w-30 and probably run 2-3 cycles of Valvoline restore and protect. Like I said, it's not burning oil, but running RAP a few cycles will probably do it good being a GDI and the potential there to gum up the rings. One thing I did change with my driving, I drive it more "spirited" every so often, usually when approaching empty and need a fill-up, getting the RPMs up there and building a little more pressure and heat. I'm one of those guys who likes to squeeze every ounce of MPG out of all my vehicles, so I drive fairly "gingerly". But these GDI engines especially benefit from the old Italian tune-up every now and then.

I appreciate the responses by everyone.

The dealership service tech applied service campaign #953, forgoing the replacement of any engine internals. The ECU was updated to change the knock sensor detection sensitivity. I was told that if there are any additional issues, to bring it-in. Engine warranty has been extended to “lifetime” for any damage related to rod bearing wear. Car has been running well, and thankfully we’ve seen no CELs or experienced any rough engine behavior.

I am also now using 5w-30 Mobil 1 Advanced Clean, and changing it out at 3k-mile intervals. Need this car to last in these times, so fingers crossed. I don’t want to count-on what looks like a dream-warranty.

Thanks again.

 

[tired]

Need this car to last in these times, so fingers crossed

I'd run Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 or a MB 229.5x Euro oil if you want it to last.

 

[snail415]

I'd run Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 or a MB 229.5x Euro oil if you want it to last.

I’ll admit that while at Walmart some time back, I saw the discount for Mobil 1 Advanced Clean and pulled the trigger. Being that I have 4x jugs of Mobil 1 Advanced Clean 5w-30, plus 2 of Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 and 2 of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30, it might be a while until I can get around to Valvoline Restore and Protect exclusively. But, I get the overwhelming consensus here. I’m splitting these oils-up between the Hyundai and my N/A Mazda 3, with the latter being my DD.
I also have a dozen oil filters that I got when prices and deals were available. All Purolator Ones.

 

[Mainia]

You'd be very wise to switch to Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and never change. These engines burn very frequently. Pennzoil Platinum is a mediocre oil at best. 100% chance you already have deposits on your rings. It's not a guarantee that if you develop oil burning it will resolve with Valvoline Restore and Protect. There is zero reason not to do this. However if you are somehow opposed to Valvoline Restore and Protect forever, then I'd run it for 20,000 miles (4 changes) minimum and then switch to a good Euro oil like Mobil 1 Euro FS 0W-40 or Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. In my mind, those are your only choices for that engine. @Mainia can share his experience as well with jammed rings and burning oil on even much better oils than Pennzoil Platinum.

My situation was major fuel dilution 1.5qts in 3,000 miles. I would suck out .75qt at 1,500 miles and have another .75qts more at the 3,000 mile dump time. I had to of had the 2 top rings jammed or all of them jammed. I was only running top shelf oils and some boutiques. I ran Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 ( older ester/pao version) for 2 years before running Redline Performance (ester pao) 5w-30 Euro that broke the rings lose in 1,500 miles. I went in to suck the oil out at 1,500 mile mark and the oil level was on the full dot.

I agree with Tired, I would run Valvoline Restore and Protect (Valvoline Restore and Protect) in every Hyundai/Kia engine for life. I think some of their destroyed engines start with jammed rings. There are outliers that can get by without using Valvoline Restore and Protect, but who knows if your an outlier, or when the ring jamming could start on your perceived outlier. I run Valvoline Restore and Protect during Minnesota late fall to early spring to keep my rings clean. I then use HPL Engine Cleaner during my 5w-30 HTHS 3.5^ oils/5w-40 summer oil. I never want jammed rings again.

 

[tired]

I’ll admit that while at Walmart some time back, I saw the discount for Mobil 1 Advanced Clean and pulled the trigger. Being that I have 4x jugs of Mobil 1 Advanced Clean 5w-30, plus 2 of Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 and 2 of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w-30, it might be a while until I can get around to Valvoline Restore and Protect exclusively. But, I get the overwhelming consensus here. I’m splitting these oils-up between the Hyundai and my N/A Mazda 3, with the latter being my DD.
I also have a dozen oil filters that I got when prices and deals were available. All Purolator Ones.

Those aren't bad oils, just not as good as Valvoline Restore and Protect for that application. I think if you finish up that stash and switch to Valvoline Restore and Protect you'll be ok.

 

[Bigvman23]

You'd be very wise to switch to Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and never change. These engines burn very frequently. Pennzoil Platinum is a mediocre oil at best. 100% chance you already have deposits on your rings. It's not a guarantee that if you develop oil burning it will resolve with Valvoline Restore and Protect. There is zero reason not to do this. However if you are somehow opposed to Valvoline Restore and Protect forever, then I'd run it for 20,000 miles (4 changes) minimum and then switch to a good Euro oil like Mobil 1 Euro FS 0W-40 or Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30. In my mind, those are your only choices for that engine. @Mainia can share his experience as well with jammed rings and burning oil on even much better oils than Pennzoil Platinum.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is mediocre? Ok, I just noticed I stated Pen Platinum. Actually it's Pen Ultra Platinum I run. Everything I have researched points to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum being a pretty "top of the line" level oil. But I assume your reply was geared towards the basic Platinum series I had mistakenly put in my post.

 

[tired]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is mediocre? Ok, I just noticed I stated Pen Platinum. Actually it's Pen Ultra Platinum I run. Everything I have researched points to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum being a pretty "top of the line" level oil. But I assume your reply was geared towards the basic Platinum series I had mistakenly put in my post.

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is a great oil. Not as good as Mobil 1 ESP or Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 but very good. Yes Pennzoil Platinum is what I was commenting on. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum should run clean, but I agree that Valvoline Restore and Protect for a few runs could only help. I would still bump to 5W-30. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum runs a little on the thin side.

 

[Hootbro]

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is a great oil. Not as good as Mobil 1 ESP or Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 but very good. Yes Pennzoil Platinum is what I was commenting on. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum should run clean, but I agree that Valvoline Restore and Protect for a few runs could only help. I would still bump to 5W-30. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum runs a little on the thin side.

What makes Pennzoil Ultra Platinum "Not as good as Mobil 1 ESP"?

 

[tired]

What makes Pennzoil Ultra Platinum "Not as good as Mobil 1 ESP"?

Lower HTHS. No esters that clean.

 

[Patman]

What makes Pennzoil Ultra Platinum "Not as good as Mobil 1 ESP"?

Nowhere near the same amount of approvals is the biggest difference

 

[Prison_Mike]

Let me clarify-

This wasn’t the dealer telling me what I need, but the long track-record of these engines grenading shortly after the crank sensor (doing its job) detected knock. There’s nothing wrong with the sensor on a 50k-mile engine. It’s more than likely the result of a manufacturing process that omitted a proper removal of micro-metal shavings during the CNC process.

And I’m not out-of-the-woods just yet. The service manager actually leaned towards me and said “HMC may ask for receipts of the oil you purchased for your at-home changes. It’s BS. However, given the low miles at 9 years, you stand to get taken care-of.”

Ironically, it’s testimony that I’ve read here on the BITOG forum that compelled me to use Super Tech for so long in my car, and at a conservative OCI. It would be kind-of funny (eventually) if that diligence works against me here; there’s nothing better I could have really done, and the crank sensor certainly isn’t the problem.

Anyhow, I appreciate everyone’s responses.

I had to go through this same scenario last March. Except mine never gave any indication that it was ready to go. Just going down the highway with the family and the car just shuts down. Won't even crank. There was never any noise or glitter to the oil and I had been changing it every 4k-5k miles. It would maybe have burned a half quart at most in 4k-5k. My wife's 3.3L Lambda burned probably a quart to quart and a half in 3k miles.

First Kia dealer I got in contact with, after explaining the issue and mentioning the Theta engine debacle, told me there was no such warranty repair and that I'd be liable for the full engine replacement. Called another dealer and halfway through the explanation they cut me off and told me "We know exactly what you're talking about. Have it brought in and we'll look it over to make sure it qualifies." Chances are they want receipts so they don't have to take the top cover off.

They asked if I had oil change history and I said no. They said they would have to take the valve cover off as a way to make sure there wasn't any buildup or anything. They called me back about a week later saying that they'd looked at it and that I would be getting a new engine courtesy of Kia/Hyundai. Took about a month before they called me saying it was done and ready for pickup.

I'm sure I got really lucky, and once this thing's paid off, I'm dropping it fast, but I was truly impressed with how the dealer handled it after the first told me to pound sand. I should have probably reported them, but it's done and gone now.

 

[Bigvman23]

I had to go through this same scenario last March. Except mine never gave any indication that it was ready to go. Just going down the highway with the family and the car just shuts down. Won't even crank. There was never any noise or glitter to the oil and I had been changing it every 4k-5k miles. It would maybe have burned a half quart at most in 4k-5k. My wife's 3.3L Lambda burned probably a quart to quart and a half in 3k miles.

First Kia dealer I got in contact with, after explaining the issue and mentioning the Theta engine debacle, told me there was no such warranty repair and that I'd be liable for the full engine replacement. Called another dealer and halfway through the explanation they cut me off and told me "We know exactly what you're talking about. Have it brought in and we'll look it over to make sure it qualifies." Chances are they want receipts so they don't have to take the top cover off.

They asked if I had oil change history and I said no. They said they would have to take the valve cover off as a way to make sure there wasn't any buildup or anything. They called me back about a week later saying that they'd looked at it and that I would be getting a new engine courtesy of Kia/Hyundai. Took about a month before they called me saying it was done and ready for pickup.

I'm sure I got really lucky, and once this thing's paid off, I'm dropping it fast, but I was truly impressed with how the dealer handled it after the first told me to pound sand. I should have probably reported them, but it's done and gone now.

Mine was no hassle at all as well. Now one requirement is that the car has been brought in for all recalls and updates, which I had done. I have heard of some horror stories where people had not brought their cars in for software updates and when their engine went Hyundai would not honor the guarantee.

 

[MParr]

Those pesky knock sensors.
When a Hyundai/KIA Theta II detects knock, it's usually too late.
Change oil every 5,000 miles. Use the thickest 5W30 that you can find. A 5W40 is also good. Our Optima oil always smelled of gasoline.
NEVER use the Eco Mode.

 

[donnyj08]

I think this is a Hyundai GDI Engine problem that no oil, regardless of brand will fix.

We Owned a 2016 Tucson 1.6T for about 5 years. Bought it at 20k miles it was previously dealer serviced with QS every 5K. When I took over I maintained it with 3K mile OCIs and 5w30 synthetics from Mobil and Valvoline. At 103K miles it pre detonated on the highway with M1 5w30 SN+ oil and Shell 93 in the tank and burnt out a valve. Had the head redone and drive it another 30k at which point it was burning a quart every 700-1k miles. We traded it in at that point.

Wonderful driving car and the 7 Speed Dual Clutch gearbox was actually awesome and reliable with 30k mile intervals with redline LV fluid. The Engine, however is just a poorly designed T-GDI that is riddled with issues such as Fuel dilution and Carbon buildup as is their 2.4L GDI engines.

I wish they were better engines, as the rest of the vehicle is actually of good quality and design. IMO of course..

 

[tired]

I think this is a Hyundai GDI Engine problem that no oil, regardless of brand will fix.

We Owned a 2016 Tucson 1.6T for about 5 years. Bought it at 20k miles it was previously dealer serviced with QS every 5K. When I took over I maintained it with 3K mile OCIs and 5w30 synthetics from Mobil and Valvoline. At 103K miles it pre detonated on the highway with M1 5w30 SN+ oil and Shell 93 in the tank and burnt out a valve. Had the head redone and drive it another 30k at which point it was burning a quart every 700-1k miles. We traded it in at that point.

Wonderful driving car and the 7 Speed Dual Clutch gearbox was actually awesome and reliable with 30k mile intervals with redline LV fluid. The Engine, however is just a poorly designed T-GDI that is riddled with issues such as Fuel dilution and Carbon buildup as is their 2.4L GDI engines.

I wish they were better engines, as the rest of the vehicle is actually of good quality and design. IMO of course..

I'm impressed you re-did the head on a Hyundai engine. I think people let cars go too soon oftentimes.

I wonder if VRP could have fixed the oil burning or if the cylinders were scored.

 

[donnyj08]

I'm impressed you re-did the head on a Hyundai engine. I think people let cars go too soon oftentimes.

I wonder if VRP could have fixed the oil burning or if the cylinders were scored.

The car was paid for and still nice otherwise so a few grand to keep driving it 30-40k was worth a shot.


I’m not sure. Car ran most of the miles I had it on Valvoline Modern Engine 5w30 (The original LSPI oil) or Mobil 1 5w30 EP. Engine was very clean.

I think the engines are just designed poorly.

 

[ChrisD46]

I wonder if even a 5K mile OCI is too long for these Hyundai / Kia Theta II engines ? Valvoline wants 4K miles to maximize a fill of VRP for cleaning , so that would be my OCI in these engines .