Automotive vs. MC oil quote

[Jaybird]

To qualify for the JASO MA or MB certification, the fluid must first meet the following specs:

High-Temp.High-Shear Rate Vis.(150°C)mPa.s
ASTM D4683
2.9 Min.

Sulfated Ash [Mass%]
ASTM D874
1.2 Max

Evaporative Loss [Mass%]
ASTM D5880
20 Max.

Foaming Tendency, ml
ASTM D892
Seq. I 10 max-nil
Seq. II 50 max-nil
Seq. III 10 max-nil.

Shear Stability (Kinematic Viscosity after Test)
ASTM D6278
mm2/s xW-30 9.0 Min.
100°C xW-40 12.0 Min.
xW-50 15.0 Min.

After meeting the above physical and chemical property specs, the fluid must fall within the given ranges of the JASO T904 testing procedure:

DFI (Dynamic Friction Index)
MA 1.45 or greater
MB Less than 1.45

SFI (Static Friction Index)
MA 1.15 or greater
MB Less than 1.15

STI (Stop Time Index)
MA 1.55 or greater
MB Less than 1.55

The physical properties that the fluids must meet can surely be met by umpteen number of oils on the shelf, both EC and non-EC rated.

Also, the paramiters for the MA/MB specification are such that a fluid could meet both specifications.

A fluid that tested out at 1.46 for the DFI would only meet the MB specification, however I would challange that this .01 difference between MB and MA certifiable is not detectable by rider or racer. Anecdotal evidence of riders not noticing any clutch slippage, even when using an EC rated fluid, would support this theory.

IMO, JASO ratings give the less than learned consumer a guide to be able to choose a fluid that would be suited for shared sump motorcycle use. But, there are also many other fluids that are not marketed to the motorcycle niche that would also pass these tests and be JASO certifiable.

It is also in my opinion that oil mfg's exploit these JASO certifications to elevate the price points of their moto specific fluids.

If a person does not want to research and test to find an alternate fluid that will meet the requirements of his bike, they should stick with the JASO rated fluids and continue to pay top-dollar.
Folks that prefer to research and test in an attempt to find alternates, will save money (lots of money in most cases)...and they will also, more than likely, frequent places like this.

 

[castor]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:

quote:

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many people find it makes no difference in their bikes.

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More like they don't ride much to see any adverse effect and more importantly, don't care. I know several like this, one older guy (60) who got into an arguement with the Yamaha dealer over this in his new "Big Bear" ATV, argued the salesman/store owner when he told him to make sure he used only oil spec of them. No @#$%^& salesman is going to tell him that the oil in his Ford Diesel won't work in his ATV. He came and told me this and I said the dealer was right, still it going to use the 15w40 diesel though.

The effect of friction modifiers on MC's, ATV's etc must have some truth as they developed a spec just for them. JASO MA

And it more than just clutch slipping....

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hi mike
i have been using 20w60 diesil oil in my harley engine for about a year now. very pleased, about a quarter the price of the boutique synthetic i was using since i bought it new in '92
is it not suitable for atv's?
p.s. i still use a synthetic (motul 6100) in the primary, no clutch slip there at 65,000 miles

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:

I know several like this, one older guy (60) who got into an arguement with the Yamaha dealer over this in his new "Big Bear" ATV, argued the salesman/store owner when he told him to make sure he used only oil spec of them. No @#$%^& salesman is going to tell him that the oil in his Ford Diesel won't work in his ATV. He came and told me this and I said the dealer was right, still it going to use the 15w40 diesel though.

The effect of friction modifiers on MC's, ATV's etc must have some truth as they developed a spec just for them. JASO MA

And it more than just clutch slipping....

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As long as the HDEO say Allison C4 on the side an the MC oil just has a picture of a motorcycle and some obsolete API spec on the side, old guy was right.

Allison C4 is a spec for wet clutches and transmissions. It makes for a good motorcycle oil.