Auto-Rx & MMO
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I see where this thread is headed.
There are to many positive testimonies to dispute A-Rx ability to clean an engine, where I saw the product shine was stopping a leak. I didn't have filters clogged with muck, nor oil change color when I used it in my 93 Aerostar. In fact I was initially disappointed, but I stayed the course. I believe my engine was clean and that was due to good maintenance and the use of MMO. We can't clean something that isn't dirty. I've had enough of my engines in different states of disassembly to know how clean they are, and I've been using MMO for decades. During the cold winter MMO in the oil is a plus especially if I decide to spend some time in the Adirondacks. I learned first hand how well that qt of MMO helps even synthetic oil when it hits -30*F. I know some people say why add it to a good synthetic oil,? I do that from time to time, to keep things clean, and learned the winter benefit by accident.
Where A-rx took the prize for me was its ability to stop an oil leak, and as a result of that I am using a little less oil. It has been about 2 oil changes since I completed the second and final A-Rx rinse treatment. Both products work, and work well, where A-Rx shines is in its ability to stop a leak, which MMO didn't do. I will continue to use both products, and recommend both.
Where A-rx took the prize for me was its ability to stop an oil leak, and as a result of that I am using a little less oil. It has been about 2 oil changes since I completed the second and final A-Rx rinse treatment. Both products work, and work well, where A-Rx shines is in its ability to stop a leak, which MMO didn't do. I will continue to use both products, and recommend both.
demarpaint,
The ability to stop a leak with ARX has only to do with cleaning contaminants off of the metal journal, or the polymer seal. ARX does nothing at all to the polymer seal material. It does not swell the seal.
I do not doubt that MMO helps very cold starts. Thinning out the oil is what it does. I live in Tampa, should I be concerned with the thinning of the oil in high heat conditions?
Thanks you all for pointing out my spelling errors. I did 20 push ups, before this post.
I am a bit confused. MMO which I really like in the fuel side of things, creates better fuel economy? I would say yes run in the gas occasionally. However, I have got to believe that it has very poor comustibility properties. Mineral spirits, Napthlenic oil, and Chlorinated hydrocarbons do not sound like elements to increase my bang for the buck. Used occasionally, I can understand that some upper end lubrication and some injector cleaning and lube. I just don't think it is intended for use with each fill up.
The ability to stop a leak with ARX has only to do with cleaning contaminants off of the metal journal, or the polymer seal. ARX does nothing at all to the polymer seal material. It does not swell the seal.
I do not doubt that MMO helps very cold starts. Thinning out the oil is what it does. I live in Tampa, should I be concerned with the thinning of the oil in high heat conditions?
Thanks you all for pointing out my spelling errors. I did 20 push ups, before this post.
I am a bit confused. MMO which I really like in the fuel side of things, creates better fuel economy? I would say yes run in the gas occasionally. However, I have got to believe that it has very poor comustibility properties. Mineral spirits, Napthlenic oil, and Chlorinated hydrocarbons do not sound like elements to increase my bang for the buck. Used occasionally, I can understand that some upper end lubrication and some injector cleaning and lube. I just don't think it is intended for use with each fill up.
If you believe MMO has poor combustibility properties then why are many people reporting increased gas mileage.
My gas mileage on my Marauder went up by 2 m.p.g. and the throttle response is better.
I will have to look at the MSDS Sheet again, but I believe these chemicals you are talikg about only account for a very small percentage of the makeup of MMO, I do not see a problem with 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of gas, maybe if you dumped a quart of MMO into your gas tank there could be some problems.
Has anyone on this board that has used MMO reported any problems, I checked the internet before I used it in the fuel and I could not find anyone that ever reported having a problem.
There is even a post on here by a very respected member who used it as a piston soak and he was pleased with the results.
I believe thinning of the oil too an extent is good, since most of your wear is on startup and look at the move to thinner oil's like 0W-20 and 5W-20, of course this could be for CAFE, but I remember reading a post on Crown-Vic.net wherea guy was running 10W-30 in his 4.6 instead of 5W-30, and he was burning oil at 90,000 miles.
If you are saying to run MMO in your gas occasionaly that is like saying to run a Maintenance Dose of auto-rx in your oil occasionaly, and not at every oil change. In order to keep your fuel system lubed you need to use MMO as a maintenance dose at each fillup, there are guys who have reported that there engines ran differently when they did not have a maintenance dose of MMO in there, meaning they went to gas up and forgot too add a 4 ounce dose of MMO.
The only way to keep your gains with auto-rx is to use the 4 ounces or so at every oil change just like it is too use the recommended dose of MMO at each gasoline fillup.
Don't knock MMO in the fuel until you have tried it.
My gas mileage on my Marauder went up by 2 m.p.g. and the throttle response is better.
I will have to look at the MSDS Sheet again, but I believe these chemicals you are talikg about only account for a very small percentage of the makeup of MMO, I do not see a problem with 4 ounces of MMO to 10 gallons of gas, maybe if you dumped a quart of MMO into your gas tank there could be some problems.
Has anyone on this board that has used MMO reported any problems, I checked the internet before I used it in the fuel and I could not find anyone that ever reported having a problem.
There is even a post on here by a very respected member who used it as a piston soak and he was pleased with the results.
I believe thinning of the oil too an extent is good, since most of your wear is on startup and look at the move to thinner oil's like 0W-20 and 5W-20, of course this could be for CAFE, but I remember reading a post on Crown-Vic.net wherea guy was running 10W-30 in his 4.6 instead of 5W-30, and he was burning oil at 90,000 miles.
If you are saying to run MMO in your gas occasionaly that is like saying to run a Maintenance Dose of auto-rx in your oil occasionaly, and not at every oil change. In order to keep your fuel system lubed you need to use MMO as a maintenance dose at each fillup, there are guys who have reported that there engines ran differently when they did not have a maintenance dose of MMO in there, meaning they went to gas up and forgot too add a 4 ounce dose of MMO.
The only way to keep your gains with auto-rx is to use the 4 ounces or so at every oil change just like it is too use the recommended dose of MMO at each gasoline fillup.
Don't knock MMO in the fuel until you have tried it.
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Quote:
If you believe MMO has poor combustibility properties then why are many people reporting increased gas mileage.
It's got some properties to it that may work to your advantage. Too large a dose would tend to stifle full combustion. It would put an insulating layer on the combustion chamber that may allow the cooling fuel margin to be exhausted, but I don't know how you can control that. Too much will put a soft soot on the back of your intake valve and probably foul your plugs.
I've added a half gallon to one tank to see what occurred. While is did get "one bump start" as a side effect, the plugs were fouled. The combustion chambers had a "wet" appearance to them without undue deposits. The backs of the intake valves were heaped in soft soot as were the plugs.
So use it sparingly. Fuel can use some UCL added to it, but not too much or it will be counter productive.
If you believe MMO has poor combustibility properties then why are many people reporting increased gas mileage.
It's got some properties to it that may work to your advantage. Too large a dose would tend to stifle full combustion. It would put an insulating layer on the combustion chamber that may allow the cooling fuel margin to be exhausted, but I don't know how you can control that. Too much will put a soft soot on the back of your intake valve and probably foul your plugs.
I've added a half gallon to one tank to see what occurred. While is did get "one bump start" as a side effect, the plugs were fouled. The combustion chambers had a "wet" appearance to them without undue deposits. The backs of the intake valves were heaped in soft soot as were the plugs.
So use it sparingly. Fuel can use some UCL added to it, but not too much or it will be counter productive.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
I've read that A-rX doesn't pour well in the winter time. I wonder if it thickens things up?
AD
From what I have seen, it is almost unpourable in the winter time, unless added to engine oil then it is fine.
I always leave my Auto-RX inside and mix with the oil before taking outside if I'm treating a vehicle in the winter.
Best to wait until the summer IMO, but no harm in the winter. Did my Santa Fe towards the end of winter when it was still below 0oC (below 32oF)
I've read that A-rX doesn't pour well in the winter time. I wonder if it thickens things up?
AD
From what I have seen, it is almost unpourable in the winter time, unless added to engine oil then it is fine.
I always leave my Auto-RX inside and mix with the oil before taking outside if I'm treating a vehicle in the winter.
Best to wait until the summer IMO, but no harm in the winter. Did my Santa Fe towards the end of winter when it was still below 0oC (below 32oF)
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
If you believe MMO has poor combustibility properties then why are many people reporting increased gas mileage.
It's got some properties to it that may work to your advantage. Too large a dose would tend to stifle full combustion. It would put an insulating layer on the combustion chamber that may allow the cooling fuel margin to be exhausted, but I don't know how you can control that. Too much will put a soft soot on the back of your intake valve and probably foul your plugs.
I've added a half gallon to one tank to see what occurred. While is did get "one bump start" as a side effect, the plugs were fouled. The combustion chambers had a "wet" appearance to them without undue deposits. The backs of the intake valves were heaped in soft soot as were the plugs.
So use it sparingly. Fuel can use some UCL added to it, but not too much or it will be counter productive.
Gary, you added half a gallon which is 64 ounces too your fuel, your supposed too add 4 ounces too 10 gallons, so you dosed it 16 times more, even if you had a 20 gallon gas tank that would be dosing it 8 times more, know wonder your plugs got fouled.
Quote:
If you believe MMO has poor combustibility properties then why are many people reporting increased gas mileage.
It's got some properties to it that may work to your advantage. Too large a dose would tend to stifle full combustion. It would put an insulating layer on the combustion chamber that may allow the cooling fuel margin to be exhausted, but I don't know how you can control that. Too much will put a soft soot on the back of your intake valve and probably foul your plugs.
I've added a half gallon to one tank to see what occurred. While is did get "one bump start" as a side effect, the plugs were fouled. The combustion chambers had a "wet" appearance to them without undue deposits. The backs of the intake valves were heaped in soft soot as were the plugs.
So use it sparingly. Fuel can use some UCL added to it, but not too much or it will be counter productive.
Gary, you added half a gallon which is 64 ounces too your fuel, your supposed too add 4 ounces too 10 gallons, so you dosed it 16 times more, even if you had a 20 gallon gas tank that would be dosing it 8 times more, know wonder your plugs got fouled.
I want to add to what demarpaint said. What Auto-RX did for me was stop a small oil leak. That oil leak was in a front wheel drive Saturn car and mechanics told me it would have cost $600.00 to fix the leak, because the engine would have to have been removed. I tried Valvoline MaxLife to try to stop the leak (it is supposed to have seal conditioners) and I tried a stop leak product and neither worked. I did one or two Auto-RX cleanings (not sure if one or two) and the leak stopped.
I have to assume that Auto-RX was what stopped the leak, unless it was just some sort of coincidence. I was doing 3000 miles oil changes and the car was fairly new so I assume the engine was not really sludged up.
Marvel Mystery Oil seemed to help my lawn mower engine. I also occasionally have been putting it in the gasoline for my car.
I think I will occasionally use Marvel Mystery Oil in my oil. After all the product does not cost much (I can get it at Wal-Mart for a few dollars), it has been around forever, and was even used in World War II in bombers crossing the Atlantic.
Perhaps Marvel Mystery Oil can be the low cost engine cleaner that some people are hoping for. But for a really badly sludged up engine I thinl Auto-RX is still the way to go. Or if somebody has seal leaks try Auto-RX, as long as there is no physical damage to a seal. Also, apparently Marvel Mystery Oil can help in the wintertime.
I have to assume that Auto-RX was what stopped the leak, unless it was just some sort of coincidence. I was doing 3000 miles oil changes and the car was fairly new so I assume the engine was not really sludged up.
Marvel Mystery Oil seemed to help my lawn mower engine. I also occasionally have been putting it in the gasoline for my car.
I think I will occasionally use Marvel Mystery Oil in my oil. After all the product does not cost much (I can get it at Wal-Mart for a few dollars), it has been around forever, and was even used in World War II in bombers crossing the Atlantic.
Perhaps Marvel Mystery Oil can be the low cost engine cleaner that some people are hoping for. But for a really badly sludged up engine I thinl Auto-RX is still the way to go. Or if somebody has seal leaks try Auto-RX, as long as there is no physical damage to a seal. Also, apparently Marvel Mystery Oil can help in the wintertime.
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I think many of you would be amazed at how cold sensative many normal oil adds are at temps aroung freezing(32 F.). ARX once dispersed in oil has very little effect. What effect it does have is some polar bonding to ferrous metal surfaces, just as full synthetics claim. Therefor there is no dry start conditions.
There is no doubt that dino oils do not have the pour point desireable for extreme cold, group III's are alot better, but full synthetics are best.
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity. MMO run on the back end of an oil change provides a negative lubricity value with respect to visocity, while the oil is already close to spent, perhaps. Why would you do a cleaning for 500 to 1000 miles with compromized oil, at the end of an OCI?
There is no doubt that dino oils do not have the pour point desireable for extreme cold, group III's are alot better, but full synthetics are best.
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity. MMO run on the back end of an oil change provides a negative lubricity value with respect to visocity, while the oil is already close to spent, perhaps. Why would you do a cleaning for 500 to 1000 miles with compromized oil, at the end of an OCI?
Originally Posted By: Rick20
I think many of you would be amazed at how cold sensative many normal oil adds are at temps aroung freezing(32 F.). ARX once dispersed in oil has very little effect. What effect it does have is some polar bonding to ferrous metal surfaces, just as full synthetics claim. Therefor there is no dry start conditions.
There is no doubt that dino oils do not have the pour point desireable for extreme cold, group III's are alot better, but full synthetics are best.
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity. MMO run on the back end of an oil change provides a negative lubricity value with respect to visocity, while the oil is already close to spent, perhaps. Why would you do a cleaning for 500 to 1000 miles with compromized oil, at the end of an OCI?
Rick20, do you ever give up?
I think many of you would be amazed at how cold sensative many normal oil adds are at temps aroung freezing(32 F.). ARX once dispersed in oil has very little effect. What effect it does have is some polar bonding to ferrous metal surfaces, just as full synthetics claim. Therefor there is no dry start conditions.
There is no doubt that dino oils do not have the pour point desireable for extreme cold, group III's are alot better, but full synthetics are best.
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity. MMO run on the back end of an oil change provides a negative lubricity value with respect to visocity, while the oil is already close to spent, perhaps. Why would you do a cleaning for 500 to 1000 miles with compromized oil, at the end of an OCI?
Rick20, do you ever give up?
Rick20, have you actually used MMO in your oil, you said that you have not seen it to be very effective.
Auto-rx and MMO are not about the same amount of money. A quart of MMO goes for about $3.50, that's about .10 cents an ounce.
A 12 ounce bottle of auto-rx goes ffor about $26.00 or so and if you buy 10 of them maybe $18.00. 18 bucks divided by 12 ounces comes out too $1.50 an ounce for auto-rx, so how can you say they cost the same.
I am trying too show people that both products work well together, if there is a problem with using MMO in the oil we need to see some proof, can you show us any proof, if you do not like MMO in the oil this is not proof too any of us that it does not work.
Auto-rx and MMO are not about the same amount of money. A quart of MMO goes for about $3.50, that's about .10 cents an ounce.
A 12 ounce bottle of auto-rx goes ffor about $26.00 or so and if you buy 10 of them maybe $18.00. 18 bucks divided by 12 ounces comes out too $1.50 an ounce for auto-rx, so how can you say they cost the same.
I am trying too show people that both products work well together, if there is a problem with using MMO in the oil we need to see some proof, can you show us any proof, if you do not like MMO in the oil this is not proof too any of us that it does not work.
Originally Posted By: Rick20
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity.
Not even close to the same money.
With respect to MMO for engine cleaning, I have not seen it to be very effective. I would suggest the 3 to 4 fluid ounce maintenance dose run for the entire OCI as a better way to go.
For about the same money ARX provides continual cleaning through the oCI, while imparting supplemental lubricity.
Not even close to the same money.
Yes I have run MMO in my sump. I so no improvement, but then again I wasn't expecting much if anything. My motor was already pretty clean from religious 3000 K OCI's and ARX MD.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
Originally Posted By: Rick20
Yes I have run MMO in my sump. I so no improvement, but then again I wasn't expecting much if anything. My motor was already pretty clean from religious 3000 K OCI's and ARX MD.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
I am wondering how come you never posted this on the auto-rx tech board. Look at my situation, I do not live in Florida where it is always warm, cold weather is hard on oil. I had been using auto-rx for 24,000 miles and a guy PM's me that auto-rx did nothing except slow a seal leak, his engine was already clean from using MMO in the oil, I think everyone will agree that I gave auto-rx enough time too work, I wanted too add MMO too see what would happen, both products have been in there for 6000 miles. My situation is different in that I started auto-rx at 343,000 miles, my car is so old it did not qualify for the Cash For Clunkers Program, my car is a 1983 model, and I believe only cars from 1984 on qualified.
I know Frank is in the business too sell auto-rx, I am using auto-rx and there is nothing in the application instructions that says you cannot use another oil additive with auto-rx, I am in the business of getting this engine clean, that is my number 1 concern.
Yes I have run MMO in my sump. I so no improvement, but then again I wasn't expecting much if anything. My motor was already pretty clean from religious 3000 K OCI's and ARX MD.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
I am wondering how come you never posted this on the auto-rx tech board. Look at my situation, I do not live in Florida where it is always warm, cold weather is hard on oil. I had been using auto-rx for 24,000 miles and a guy PM's me that auto-rx did nothing except slow a seal leak, his engine was already clean from using MMO in the oil, I think everyone will agree that I gave auto-rx enough time too work, I wanted too add MMO too see what would happen, both products have been in there for 6000 miles. My situation is different in that I started auto-rx at 343,000 miles, my car is so old it did not qualify for the Cash For Clunkers Program, my car is a 1983 model, and I believe only cars from 1984 on qualified.
I know Frank is in the business too sell auto-rx, I am using auto-rx and there is nothing in the application instructions that says you cannot use another oil additive with auto-rx, I am in the business of getting this engine clean, that is my number 1 concern.
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Originally Posted By: Rick20
Yes I have run MMO in my sump. I so no improvement, but then again I wasn't expecting much if anything. My motor was already pretty clean from religious 3000 K OCI's and ARX MD.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
I don't want for this to continue in the direction it's going, but I tend to agree.
MMO isn't a bad product. I just found it less effective than Auto-Rx. Routine usage probably will prevent some deposits ..remove some. It's not going to be innocuous like Auto-Rx nor provide the extended benefits.
I won't use MMO in my oil after using it and then following it with Auto-Rx and having the results that I did. MMO didn't touch a lifter noise in my Mitsubishi. Nothing did. With Auto-Rx I got new noises I never knew I had and they all went away.
So (probably) routine usage of MMO can give you desired results. I'm just not into altering my oil's properties that much in the process.
I don't think that anyone will experience any harm in a primary sense from the use of MMO on a routine basis. I do, however, reject the idea of using a solvent added to my oil. Not when a much more elegant product is available.
Not everyone has to see value in it. Use what you think serves you best.
Yes I have run MMO in my sump. I so no improvement, but then again I wasn't expecting much if anything. My motor was already pretty clean from religious 3000 K OCI's and ARX MD.
No, I never give up. Six bucks worth of ARX run over an entire OCI( maintenance dose), has more positive benefits than 2 bucks worth of MMO for 500 miles prior to an oil dump, IMO.
I don't want for this to continue in the direction it's going, but I tend to agree.
MMO isn't a bad product. I just found it less effective than Auto-Rx. Routine usage probably will prevent some deposits ..remove some. It's not going to be innocuous like Auto-Rx nor provide the extended benefits.
I won't use MMO in my oil after using it and then following it with Auto-Rx and having the results that I did. MMO didn't touch a lifter noise in my Mitsubishi. Nothing did. With Auto-Rx I got new noises I never knew I had and they all went away.
So (probably) routine usage of MMO can give you desired results. I'm just not into altering my oil's properties that much in the process.
I don't think that anyone will experience any harm in a primary sense from the use of MMO on a routine basis. I do, however, reject the idea of using a solvent added to my oil. Not when a much more elegant product is available.
Not everyone has to see value in it. Use what you think serves you best.
I can say that MMO took care of my lifter tick, or maybe it was a combination of both products, who knows.
This product has been around since 1923 and it has been used by the military for over 50 years, I found this out by reading what a guy posted while he was a soldier, they had boxes of the stuff in green cans to use on carburetors, when he used MMO years later he noticed that from what he remembered the MMO looked the same and smelled the same from what he had used in a carburetor when he was a soldier.
MMO is even sold at Wal-Mart, they do not put something on the shelves to collect dust. I will continue too do what I am doing using both products. I saw no gains from using MMO on my Marauder with 32,000 miles so I will continue with a Maintenance Dose of auto-rx but the other car with almost 373,000 miles is a different story.
This product has been around since 1923 and it has been used by the military for over 50 years, I found this out by reading what a guy posted while he was a soldier, they had boxes of the stuff in green cans to use on carburetors, when he used MMO years later he noticed that from what he remembered the MMO looked the same and smelled the same from what he had used in a carburetor when he was a soldier.
MMO is even sold at Wal-Mart, they do not put something on the shelves to collect dust. I will continue too do what I am doing using both products. I saw no gains from using MMO on my Marauder with 32,000 miles so I will continue with a Maintenance Dose of auto-rx but the other car with almost 373,000 miles is a different story.
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