Auto Rx is think as glue??

[Chero87]

So I am in the process of a cleaning phase of Auto Rx, and since my engine burns oil (Toyota 3VZE), I have been adding 2oz. of ARx for every quart of oil it burns.

I go out yesterday and add a 1/2qt of oil and try to dump some ARx in and it is thick as can be! It was only about 45 degrees out and I could barely get it out of the bottle. I kepp it in my garage, so it's not heated at all.

Does this stuff act this way in my crank case? I would hate to have stuff this thick in my crank case all winter. Does it take on the property of the oil when in the crank case?

Just asking, thanks.

 

[Quest]

You suppose to warm it up.

Give it a hot water bath before you take it outside and pour it in.

Q.

 

[Chero87]

I'm not talking about pouring it in, I'm asking if it gets this thick when it is mixed with oil in my crank case, is it this thick on cold starts?

 

[ThirdeYe]

I've had that happen before, where I try to pour it out of the bottle when it's cold out, and it came out thicker than molasses. The following UOA was my worst ever (I attribute it in part to the thick Auto-RX mixing with the thinner oil). I talked to Frank about it and he said it should mix properly within 200-300 miles, IIRC. Always warm up Auto-RX to room temperature at least, before pouring it into your engine. So to answer your question, I'd believe that your assumption is correct, until everything heats up and gets mixed together. Maybe someone more knowledgeable (like Frank) could chime in on the situation... I'm curious myself.

 

[ARB1977]

Originally Posted By: Chero87
I'm not talking about pouring it in, I'm asking if it gets this thick when it is mixed with oil in my crank case, is it this thick on cold starts?

Thats a good point. I guess the only way to find out is take some and add it to a qrt of oil and let it sit in the freezer over night or a few days.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Get your engine to operating temp., then put the ARX/STP/Lucas bottle on the block after you've been running a few errands...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
I've had that happen before, where I try to pour it out of the bottle when it's cold out, and it came out thicker than molasses. The following UOA was my worst ever (I attribute it in part to the thick Auto-RX mixing with the thinner oil). I talked to Frank about it and he said it should mix properly within 200-300 miles, IIRC. Always warm up Auto-RX to room temperature at least, before pouring it into your engine. So to answer your question, I'd believe that your assumption is correct, until everything heats up and gets mixed together. Maybe someone more knowledgeable (like Frank) could chime in on the situation... I'm curious myself.


Keep the A-Rx in the house so it won't get cold, then add it to a warm engine. What I've done is mix it into a partially filled qt of oil and shake it up and add that to the engine. During the winter I will bring the oil inside the house a day or so before I do my OC, seems to make life easier. Since I work, I usually try and do my OC on a weekend so bringing the oil in a few days before is not an issue. I store PP, Mobil 1 and A-Rx in the house. The dino stays in the garage, and comes in before the OC.

I would be interested in learning why the winter UOA was so bad with the addition of A-Rx? Anything I've read about A-Rx improved UOA's.

Frank D

 

[txrhino]

It seems like most are missing the OP's original question, does the AR-X "re-thicken" in the crankcase during cold temps??

 

[Chero87]

Exactly txrhino.....I like the discussion on everything though, but my main concern was do I have thick molasses sitting in my crank case or does it not thicken as much when it's already mixed with oil?

Also would it cause the oil to thicken up more when it's mixed in, and turn it from say a 10w to maybe a 15w, thereby making cold starting more harmful, which could be a reason for a worse UOA after having Auto-RX in your engine during cold months.

It's only about 45 degrees at night here on Long Island now, but the ARX will be in my engine all winter, and we see temps into the single digits and below here in the dead of winter, so that is why I was concerned.

I guess mixing it with some oil and putting it in the freezer is a good experiment, as was mentioned up top, I may try that.

Unless some experts already have or know for sure.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[BrianWC]

I would think that once arx is mixed in w/ the crankcase oil you wouldn't see that effect happening. Sorta like if you dump a bottle of VSOT into your oil, when your engine cools you don't see clumps of VSOT forming.

And of course, as we were just discussing in another thread, the material used for viscosity index improvers in motor oil starts out as a big brick of waxy, plastic-y material before being dissolved in the base oil (per the recent history channel special on oil).

 

[VK56VD]

I think ARX takes the chemistry of host oil once mixed in. It'll mix in with the oil and form the same effect as an additive that was added in the oil at the bottling plant.

I've also read that ARX works best when oil is nice and hot. I wonder if the results from ARX are better seen in the summer.Probably not since oil temperature in the summer is the same as in the winter since the engine warms up to operating temperature. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

To help ARX pour better, I stand up the bottle of Auto-RX into a bowl of hot water. After 10 mins. or so, ARX warms up and flows like an oil.

 

[Quest]

Yes, once it's mixed with host oil, you won't see AutoRx behaving like it would by it's own self.

Yes, I missed the mark (as usual, poor eyesight, extended working hours, etc.) but in reality: AutoRx is a very, very interesting product that always brings up some interesting questions. Thick as a glue? I think not. viscous? Somewhat. Will it behave that way when it's mixed with host oil? Naaahh!

Anyways, been using AutoRx (both maintenance does and regular clean & rinse for the past 3 yrs+) and I must say though: AutoRx is one interesting mix of esters.

Please read up on esters and their polar behaviours if you don't know what that means (or catch up on high school chemistry if you don't even have the basics).

Q.

 

[demarpaint]

Then why the bad winter UOA? Would a 4 oz maint dose be better for the winter months than a full treatment?

Frank D

 

[Frank]

Spartuss is correct (this is from FAQ)


Q: Using Auto-Rx in Frigid Cold Conditions
A: Auto-Rx is a highly concentrated combination of ester based cleaning components. In its concentrated form Auto-Rx is not flowable from its container below 32 degrees F. However, once dispersed into your host motor oil, it has little to no effect on the pour point of the host oil. In cold weather conditions, follow these instructions: dispense hot tap water into a bowl or container that will have adequate capacity to submerse the Auto-Rx container up to the bottle neck. Insert the bottle so that the neck is above the high water mark. Allow the bottle to stand in the warm water for 2 minutes. If the bottle of Auto-Rx has been subject to below freezing temperatures, you should repeat this process twice - refilling the hot water container and re-submersing the Auto-Rx. In the meantime, warm the motor to operating temperature. With a warm motor and Auto-Rx warmed to at least room temperature, you are ready to proceed with your Auto-Rx application.

 

[VK56VD]

I've always wondered if putting a closed bottle of Auto-RX into a container filled with hot water cause condensation on the inside of the Auto-RX bottle. If condensation is formed on the inside and you pour Auto-RX into your engine, wouldn't you be introducing H20 into the sump that mixed in with Auto-Rx while pouring it into the engine?

 

[HTSS_TR]

This is the way I added very thick VSOT, it is so thick even at 80F, into my engine: I put the amount of VSOT, which is 1OZ per quart, in the oil bottle with the same amount of oil, the bottle of VSOT and oil was placed in the engine compartment but not on the engine, then drive to some place to fill up gas tank after changed oil. At the gas station the engine compartment is very warm, it warms the VSOT bottle up to 110-120F, at this temperature the VSOT is very easy to pour into the engine with warm (if not hot) oil. I left the VSOT bottle in the oil filler while filling the gas tank, by the time I finished fill up, most if not all VSOT was in the engine.

 

[Frank]

The viscosity of the oil changes as temperature builds up while the engine is running, Auto-Rx undergoes the same change as the oil and is the same viscosity as the oil always.

The Auto-Rx bottle is not pourous, moisture is not getting in.

I can,t remeber ever talking to anyone and especially telling them it took 200 to 300 miles for Auto-Rx to take on the viscosity of the host oil. It takes minutes.

HTSS-TR Good Idea.

 

[TurboJim]

"The viscosity of the oil changes as temperature builds up while the engine is running, Auto-Rx undergoes the same change as the oil and is the same viscosity as the oil always."

I've never noticed a difference in the way an engine responds to a cold start with or without ARX mixed in with the oil.

 

[JMJNet]

The keyword in Frank's explanation is "CONCENTRATED". If it not concentrated, it could not be used in its ratio of 2 oz to 1 qts.

In its concentrated form, it will thickened as temperature goes lower. But when mixed with oil, it will dissolved, hence, taking the characteristic of the oil.

In other words, it won't become thickened as the oil gets cold. Good oil should not freeze until well below 0 degrees C or F.

 

[bmwtechguy]

I keep some ARX in the heated part of the house so that I always have some ready to use and don't have to do extra steps warming it up enough to pour in the engine. The maintenance dose comes out to .5 to 1 oz per qt of host oil. At this small percentage of ARX, I seriously doubt that it could negatively affect the cold flow of the oil once mixed in. Even at the full treatment rate of 2 oz per 32 oz (quart) of oil, this is still very small percentage of ARX and should not affect cold flow appreciably. Maybe use 5W-30 instead of 10W-30 with the ARX, if that makes you feel a bit better. (for example)

As far as having a poor UOA while using ARX, I can only think that the ARX is cleaning out the wear metals laying around in that engine, making the UOA look like lots of wear is ocurring. It would be better to look at post(rinse)treatment UOA or one later on with a maintenance dose. This will give a more representative look at the engine condition and current wear patterns.