Auto-RX experience with my 180k+ mile 12v VR6

Status
Not open for further replies.
Gary, thanks for posting your findings. I agree that broad based user level examination of ANY product is healthy and in this case warranted.

After the hissy fit I threw over the possible punitive testing by Aaron I welcome open reviews. I have seen this chemistry stand on its own quite well and highly recommend its continued use periodically in most engines.

Do you have correlated oil analysis to provide in addition to the compression and pix ? That would be most helpful and instructive.

IMO even Frank and the Auto-Rx chemists have somtimes overlooked this aspect of its capabilites.

In order to see the total affectation of auto-rx I suggest that in a well maintained engine with hard varnish deposits and the normal carbonacous type, the results are less spectacular than the heavily sludged, poorly maintained engine.

That does not mean RX is not working as designed.

In our testing we saw a consistant pattern or reduced elemental wear during and after cleaning, increased oxidation during cleaning ( indicating cleaning),reduced or stabilized nitration , and lower insolubles or solids/soot readings.

I disagree with Frank and the chemists in the oil used area too. I have seen through UOA testing ( after my work for Auto-Rx) that even a oil like Redline or any other heavily ester based oil did not negatively affect the cleaning that took place. I surmise that the organic esters in Auto-Rx are much more capable at attacking built up deposits than the synthetic type in all the motor oils you could procure off the shelf.

Now can you SEE that type cleaning in a high mileage but well maintained engine ? Probably not.

Is it taking place , yes in our testing I must say it does.

If we had the same data points of UOA here it would in my opinion be very helpful and reinforce my opinion that RX is a one of a kind product and should not be dismissed lightly as marketing hype.

In this engine your tick may actually be the oil pump and indicates that it is worn, check that out and consider UOA to back up the ID of the issue.

Sincerely, Terry
 
Thanks for the reply Terry.
smile.gif


Unfortunately, the oil from the last rinse phase has already been recycled.
frown.gif


Frank has suggested doing one or two more rinse phases with plain jane oil, which I would gladly do, but I just put $30 worth of Mobil1 EP 5w-30 in the engine that I'm not keen on wasting. If I could drain it out wihtout any grit falling into my drain pan, then I would do this, but it may be more effort than it's worth. I may still give it a shot though. My biggest hurdel is finding the time. With a 5-month old in the house and a wife that's been more than understanding to allow me to take the time to do 5 oil changes, compression tests and drop the oil pan, I really should spend as little time under the car in the next few weeks as I can. The scientist in me is dying to see if what Frank says will happen will actually happen though.

To clear things up, I just wanted to point out that the point of this thread was not to bash Auto-RX and Frank. I did this study as a scientific experiement and posted the results without bias. What's gotten me frustrated since the original post is being told that I used the wrong oil after the MANY threads read, MANY hours spent in the garage and the $$$ spent on 3 bottles of Auto-RX and 20 or so quarts of GTX. That's the only reason. Regardless of my results, I'm still a great believer in what Auto-RX can do on a heavily sludged engine. The results of some of the other studies done are way to impressive to be ignored.

Gary
 
Gary, I understand that you are posting what you saw in good faith and that is appreciated.


Continue to use the already installed M1 EP and run it out as long as you choose to.

I think that Frank and company want the product to work in a prescribed time frame and thus the recommendation to run a more conventional oil during clean and rinse.

The slowing of the inevitable cleaning process may the real RUB here more than capability.

Oil analysis trends and data points for the engine would be helpful to give you and the reader more science in what is taking place with the product and the engine.

A point to mention is that 180K miles is a long time to build deposits ( yes even with syn oils) and that the cleaning internally is ongoing, I just wish I could prove that with non intrusive oil analysis to all who are reading this.

Terry
 
Yes could you post it here for examination. I cant find it on that link..

I am overseas on a different language key board and having great difficulty..
 
Hmmm, GTX, in its various guises here is a plain Jane mineral oil, with Magnatec (Stasrtup) a different animal.
I'd suggest someone contact Castrol US and confirm that your GTX, and GTX Startup are different. All the oil companies here that I've contacted in the past have been very helpful in confirming whether esters were present in their various oils.
 
Insolubles & fuel are too high for an otherwise normal report. Was fuel dilution corrected ? How long has fuel been that high in the engine ?
If corrected what was the causal factors ?
That is a major contributor long term to varnish and depletion of the add pack in the host oil.

The earlier oils used may not have held up as well as the Rotella, thus the developed varnish deposits.

Gary please consider using our service to tighten up your regimen in the future.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Terry:
Insolubles & fuel are too high for an otherwise normal report. Was fuel dilution corrected ? How long has fuel been that high in the engine ?
If corrected what was the causal factors ?
That is a major contributor long term to varnish and depletion of the add pack in the host oil.

The earlier oils used may not have held up as well as the Rotella, thus the developed varnish deposits.

Gary please consider using our service to tighten up your regimen in the future.


The UOA at 170k miles was my first, so I have no idea how long it's been high like that. I never addressed it, so if it is real, I don't know what it's from.

Insolubles are in line with every VR6 report I've seen (which isn't many though).

I'm sure that the garbage the dealer use for the 1st 100k is responsible for the majority of the varnish deposits. Rotella may not be the greatest, but I'm sure it's signficantly better than what a dealer would put in.

I'll most likely get your analysis for my 190k UOA. I'm looking forward to seeing the fuel/insol. numbers and any other comments you may have then.

Thanks again,

Gary
 
Frank-

Since your conclusions about my posted results were based on the incorrect assumption that I used a polarized version of GTX, have your opinions changed since it's now clear that the GTX I used was suitable (plain 'ol GTX, not GTX Startup/Magnatec)?

Gary
 
CASTROL GTX – MAXIMUM PROTECTION AGAINST VISCOSITY AND THERMAL BREAKDOWN
Features and Benefits:
• The highest North American standard of protection against viscosity breakdown.
• Advanced anti-wear additives to help extend engine life.
• Superior detergency action to help prevent deposits."

What do you think these last 2 additives above do when used in a rinse mode ? This oil is fine for cleaning thats it. In fact i am so sure this application was wrong Auto-Rx will pay for the oil also.e-mail me [email protected] if you want to correct this problem.

I will send you 3 bottles of Auto-Rx at N/C when your ready to do rinse application "over" using Chevron Supreme 10-30wt. or 10-40wt. or Haviland.

Than Post.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Frank:
CASTROL GTX – MAXIMUM PROTECTION AGAINST VISCOSITY AND THERMAL BREAKDOWN
Features and Benefits:
• The highest North American standard of protection against viscosity breakdown.
• Advanced anti-wear additives to help extend engine life.
• Superior detergency action to help prevent deposits."

What do you think these last 2 additives above do when used in a rinse mode ? This oil is fine for cleaning thats it. In fact i am so sure this application was wrong Auto-Rx will pay for the oil also.e-mail me [email protected] if you want to correct this problem.

I will send you 3 bottles of Auto-Rx at N/C when your ready to do rinse application "over" using Chevron Supreme 10-30wt. or 10-40wt. or Haviland.

Than Post.


confused.gif


1) So I am currently running my first ARx clean with Castrol-GTX 5W-30 Dino oil. Is this OK ?

2) I PLANNED on running my first CLEANING phase using the same brand Castrol - GTX 5W-30 Dino oil ...and bought a case of it. Now that's WRONG !?!?! I should be using another oil....??? How do we know if THAT oil (quaker state, pennzoil, valvoline, etc) won't be the WRONG oil ??

3) Suggestion: Maybe Frank could provide us with a list of Dino oils NOT TO USE with AutoRX Rinse cycles...!!!

confused.gif
 
Frank-

Thank you for the generous offer. However, I have chosen to not accept it and will continue to just use a quality synthetic oil in my engine. My engine runs fine and I don't think a redo of the ARX treatment will benefit me enough to warrant you having to send me three bottles of ARX at no charge and my many hours in the garage working on the car.

Again, I'm not disappointed with the results of my ARX treatments. I'm only frustrated that the description of the rinse oil requirements are too general and VERY easy for the average consumer to screw up. That's it. I apologize for opening the GTX 'can of worms', but it appears that this has been a valuable lesson to more than just me on BITOG.

No hard feelings.

Gary
 
Tony i just provided you with (in post above) a list of oil for rinse mode. Your Castrol GTX good for cleaning. Just rest easy Auto-Rx works if you work it.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rick20:
Perhaps the area to look at is whther or not the crankcase breathers and corresponding emission controls are performing up to snuff?

Everything is fine AFAIK. I've checked the sensors, etc with a VAG-COM and they all were OK. My additive and multiplicative fuel trims are both well within spec, so it shouldn't be from a leaking injector or something like that. I'm wondering if the fuel dilution was from a very short period of idling just before oil sample was taken. For my next sample, I'm going to make sure not to do this and will also send it to a different lab.


Originally posted by Rick20:
[QB]Gary, thanks for all of your efforts to the board.
Glad to help out. The point of my thread was to broaden the BITOG knowledge base, not start the firestorm that it did.


quote:

Originally posted by Rick20:
I'd hang on to that unit. 30+ mpg with some performance to boot, what could be finer.

That's the plan. It's paid off and working great - why get rid of it!?

Gary
 
Castrol GTX is NOT Magnatec.

Magnatec is labeled as Startup oil.

I do agree with Gary, people through these forums have recommended the use of GTX as a good ARX oil for cleaning and rinsing.

Now it is not?
dunno.gif


This is getting weird........
confused.gif
 
quote:

• Advanced anti-wear additives to help extend engine life.
• Superior detergency action to help prevent deposits."

What do you think these last 2 additives above do when used in a rinse mode ? This oil is fine for cleaning thats it. In fact i am so sure this application was wrong Auto-Rx will pay for the oil also.e-mail me [email protected] if you want to correct this problem.

quite apart from those quotes being pure advertising copy and really point to nothing, what Frank is suggesting counts out every HDEO on the market, and probably over 90% of all straight mineral PCMO's.
Just because something has a high detergency or has anti-wear adds doesnt automatically mean esters are present.

What gives ?
dunno.gif


BTW, Gary, great job in documenting your experience.
 
I think that the short an curlies of this latest dialogue would be that an ester free rinse oil is best. However any oil can be used for rinsing. In the case of a polarized oil, the rinse should be extended up to 3000 miles or so. It is difficult to create a set of general application instructions that are custom tailored to every motor on the road.

The whole underlieing purpose behind the ARX instruction is to maximize the effectiveness of the application, while providing the maximum safety of cleaning a motor on the fly.

I honestly can't say that any body's right or every body's wrong in the dialogue above. Just like Gary's motor at 180K on the clock looks to be in extremely good condition. Say what yo want, but the motor broke in beautifully, running the dealership bulk oil.

Anyone can see that the crank shows evidence of cleaning. I would love to have seen a look at this crank before the application started. As far as the fuel dilution concerns: We know based on the compression numbers posted that its not a ring to wall issue. Running extended synthetic drains may be a part of the issue. Perhaps the area to look at is whther or not the crankcase breathers and corresponding emission controls are performing up to snuff?

Gary, thanks for all of your efforts to the board.
I'd hang on to that unit. 30+ mpg with some performance to boot, what could be finer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top