Auto-RX experience with my 180k+ mile 12v VR6

[VgRt6]

Well, the two ARX treatments of my 99.5 Jetta VR6 (currently with 182,750 miles) are done, so I figured I would post my findings. Here goes ...

BACKGROUND

The engine in question is your typical high mileage VR6 - still runs great, gets decent fuel economy on the highway (30+ MPG - "spirited" driving in the city is another story though) and burns virtually no oil. Even so, I decided to do these ARX treatments to see if they would get rid of a ticking noise I've had for quite a while and that I suspected was a worn/sticking hydraulic lifter (see this BITOG thread for more info).

OCIs on the engine have been every 10k miles. Dino was used (whatever crap the dealer put in and most likely 5w-30) up to 100k miles and "synthetic" was used from 100k miles on (Castrol Syntec 5w-30, Mobil1 0w-40 and Shell Rotella T 5w-40). OEM Hengst filters have always been used. Other than the ticking noise, the engine has never had a major problem and has only been opened up to change a cracked timing chain guide (very common on the VR6). Compression numbers are uniform and higher than VW's "new" spec. The engine runs flawlessly, has great power, clutch is still original, uses roughly 1/2 qt. of oil over the 10k OCI ... what more could I ask for!?


And now on to the good stuff ...


PRE-ARX DATA

The pre-ARX compression numbers were ("new" spec is 147-191 psi):

Cyl 1 - 226 psi
Cyl 2 - 216 psi
Cyl 3 - 225 psi
Cyl 4 - 220 psi
Cyl 5 - 217 psi
Cyl 6 - 221 psi


Image of filter removed before adding ARX (4655 mile OCI)

1st CLEANING PHASE

Start mileage = 174,875
End mileage = 176,510
Miles for phase = 1635
Oil used = Shell Rotella T 5w-40 (added 14 oz. ARX at 4655 miles into OCI)
Filter used = OEM Hengst


Compression numbers after 1st cleaning phase (with change from previous) ...

Cyl 1 - 225 psi (-1 psi)
Cyl 2 - 217 psi (+1 psi)
Cyl 3 - 224 psi (-1 psi)
Cyl 4 - 227 psi (+7 psi)
Cyl 5 - 218 psi (+1 psi)
Cyl 6 - 221 psi (0 psi)


Photo of filter after 1st cleaning phase

1st RINSE PHASE

Start mileage = 176,510
End mileage = 178,850
Miles for phase = 2340
Oil used = Castrol GTX 5w-30
Filter used = OEM Hengst


Compression numbers after 1st rinse phase (with change from previous) ...

Cyl 1 - 227 psi (+2 psi)
Cyl 2 - 217 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 3 - 220 psi (-4 psi)
Cyl 4 - 226 psi (-1 psi)
Cyl 5 - 218 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 6 - 222 psi (+1 psi)


Photo of filter after 1st rinse phase

2nd CLEANING PHASE

Start mileage = 178,850
End mileage = 180,196
Miles for phase = 1346
Oil used = Castrol GTX 5w-30 (plus 14 oz. ARX)
Filter used = OEM Hengst


Compression numbers after 2nd cleaning phase (with change from previous) ...

Cyl 1 - 225 psi (-2 psi)
Cyl 2 - 217 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 3 - 222 psi (+2 psi)
Cyl 4 - 226 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 5 - 219 psi (+1 psi)
Cyl 6 - 217 psi (-5 psi)


Photo of filter after 2nd cleaning phase

2nd RINSE PHASE

Start mileage = 180,196
End mileage = 182,360
Miles for phase = 2164
Oil used = Castrol GTX 5w-30
Filter used = OEM Hengst


Compression numbers after 2nd rinse phase (with change from previous) ...

Cyl 1 - 228 psi (+3 psi)
Cyl 2 - 217 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 3 - 223 psi (+1 psi)
Cyl 4 - 222 psi (-4 psi)
Cyl 5 - 219 psi (0 psi)
Cyl 6 - 228 psi (+11 psi)


Photo of filter after 2nd rinse phase

EFFECTS OF THE ARX TREATMENTS

The effect of the two ARX treatments on compression were ...

Cyl 1 - 226 to 228 psi (+2 psi)
Cyl 2 - 216 to 217 psi (+1 psi)
Cyl 3 - 225 to 223 psi (-2 psi)
Cyl 4 - 220 to 222 psi (+2 psi)
Cyl 5 - 217 to 219 psi (+2 psi)
Cyl 6 - 221 to 228 psi (+7 psi)


I haven't removed the valve cover yet to see what the top of the head looks like (I'm not expecting a big change however), but I did drop the oil pan and found the following.

Oil pan with and without the remaining oil removed (Look at how much oil is left in the pan after a 15 hour drain!)

The engine runs the same as it did prior to the ARX treatments. It still has great power, fuel economy is unchanged, and unfortunately, the ticking noise is still present.

I'm not going to make any comments about whether ARX works or why my results turned out the way they did. Although I'm still a believer in ARX, I'll let you make up your own opinions about my experience.

Gary

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Gary, This truly is one of the most thorough Auto-RX reports we have here! Great job!

You know for sure your engine is clean. Too bad that the ticking noise wasn't in the scope of Auto-RX's abilities.

Get that ticking fixed and you'll go another 180K no problem!

 

[znamya]

Thank you for this great informative test, As the compression values are already high, I think it is normal not to observe anything.

I have a question though.. Why does the background newspaper is the same in every picture you take for the filters? Did you save and cut them all after the 2 cycles finished. They seem to be the same, that's why I am asking.thanks again for the test

 

[VgRt6]

LOL. You have good eyes.

I saved the filters in Ziploc bags and took all of the photos at the same time (today). I like it when comparison photos are taken under the same conditions, so I chose to do it this way so that everything would look uniform.

Gary

 

[Leo]

Nice and thorough analysis of ARX. Well done! I think your engine was good to begin with, so thats why you probably didnt experience major changes. It seems sludge monsters and ill treated cars are the ones that benefit most from ARX.

 

[Frank]

Leo what your observing is the effect of polarization of synthetic oil and it's additive package on engine metal. This is why we want to urge Dino in rinse mode.Look at photos closely you could have wiped off every liquified contamianant laying there when the engine was open.I have sent private e-mail to Gary on what is needed for valve guide.

You don't want or need a 15 hour drain (if you did we would have this as part of the application instructions) just 2000 miles of Hot Dino Rinse oil dumped in a normal oil change.

Thanks Gary

 

[Alan]

Man,another nice write up Gary

!

I think all the synthetics your using now are still cleaning the deposits from the previous 10k dino intervals as the pan and the pump actually look pretty clean.

Alan

 

[Frank]

Oil's synthetic-semi synthetic-high mileage or dino don't deep down clean if they made an additive package to clean like Auto-Rx oil could not lubricate. All the synthetics Gary used have not rinsed off. And they surely are not cleaning off deposits.They are just laying there.

 

[Pablo]

Frank - please elaborate. I sort of agree with you visually. The remaining "scunge" seems to be just laying there. But he says he used Castrol GTX for the application and rinses. Are you saying the GTX add pack interfered with the rinse?

BTW Nice report.

 

[Frank]

Castrol GTX (Magnatec) not good choice for rinse oil

what your observing is the effect of polarization of a synthetic oil-synthetic blend and it's additive package on engine metal. This is why we want to urge Dino in rinse mode.Look at photos closely you could have wiped off every liquified contamianant laying there when the engine was open.I have sent private e-mail to Gary on what is needed for valve guide.

You don't want or need a 15 hour drain (if you did we would have this as part of the application instructions) just 2000 miles of Hot Dino Rinse oil dumped in a normal oil change.

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
Leo what your observing is the effect of polarization of synthetic oil and it's additive package on engine metal. This is why we want to urge Dino in rinse mode.Look at photos closely you could have wiped off every liquified contamianant laying there when the engine was open.I have sent private e-mail to Gary on what is needed for valve guide.

You don't want or need a 15 hour drain (if you did we would have this as part of the application instructions) just 2000 miles of Hot Dino Rinse oil dumped in a normal oil change.

Thanks Gary

---

Frank-

The 15 hour drain was not part of the treatment procedure. If you look at my original post again, I posted the mileage for each phase and as far as I'm concerned, followed a procedure that conforms to your instructions. My comment about the 15 hour drain was related to how long I let the oil pan drain before I removed it. I did this because I didn't want a large amount of oil dripping in my face while I was staring up into the engine. Some VW owners have asked how much oil is left in the pan due to the placement of the drain plug, so I posted the picture to illustrate that it's actually a decent amount. Again, the 15 hours had nothing to do with the ARX schecule.


Most of the "dark" oil that was on the crank, etc was wiped off AFTER the picture was taken. It came off very easily. The only real evidence of sludge was near the top of the oil pump feed tube (where it connects to the block), and even that wasn't anything to be concerned about. One of your comments above does raise a question in my mind however. You stated above that " ... you could have wiped off every liquified contamianant laying there when the engine was open" yet I remember reading one more than one occasion that Auto-RX liquifies contaminants and carries them safely away to the filter, which if I'm interpreting your above post correctly and based on my filter photos, did not happen.

Did one of use (me or ARX) not live up to our end of the bargain? Or is it indicative that a third treatment would be necessary?

Thanks,

Gary

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
[QB] Castrol GTX (Magnatec) not good choice for rinse oil

---

Since when? If this is true, then why hasn't this been pointed out before. I've read many posts about using GTX for the clean and rinse phases and never before has its use been discouraged.

Your ARX instructions say that ARX works with ALL oils. Is this really true? I understand why synthetics and synth blends shoud not be used during the rinse phase, but if a specific oil is "not a good choice" and you know it, then why not include this with the instructions?

Did I just waste my time and $65 for nothing?

Gary

 

[Bio-T]

Gary,

Thanks for the pictures. I was looking for over 5 months for a camera. After seeing the pictures that Buster took, I settled on a $200 Canon SD200 like he had. My wife got it for an early Father's day present for me. What kind of camera did you take those pictures with? Very nice and detailed.

 

[Frank]

Gary, since you have made this issue public after I sent you a private email, to explain the problem, I will try again. If you read the web site and all the message board's it say's continually to use "NON Synthetic" oil for the rinse cycle. Castro GTX has changed's it's formula and now is GTX Magnatec (meaning it's additive package is polarized to cling to metal) and will not let you flush away your liquified "crud"easily hence your frustration.
If you use just plain Jane Dino oil for 2K miles on the rinse cycle, it will reverse the polarization effect and properly rinse out your engine. Also if you drain the oil when it is hot it will remove even more. Many oil's have changed their formula's without informing the general public, so that why I stress "Plain Jane Oil" with simple additive package. Auto-Rx will "CLEAN" with any oil.Auto-Rx just cleaned your engine you did not waste any money on our chemistry.

We are not in the oil business ask "Pablo" or "Terry" what "RINSE" oil they suggest and do the rinse again per the instructions on www.auto-rx.com take the filter of after your done and take photos and post again.ps. Your valve tick should be much better once rinse oil cleans off the valve guides.

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:
Gary,

Thanks for the pictures. I was looking for over 5 months for a camera. After seeing the pictures that Buster took, I settled on a $200 Canon SD200 like he had. My wife got it for an early Father's day present for me. What kind of camera did you take those pictures with? Very nice and detailed.

---

It's a 4MP Nikon Coolpix 4300 that's about 2 years old. They're since replaced it with a few different 5MP cameras that are about half the size and take even better pics.

Gary

 

[Ken2]

Frank,
Here is Castrol's data sheet for GTX oil:
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...NG/local_assets/downloads/p,q/psd_gtx_usa.pdf
"Castrol GTX, with its unique shear stable viscosity improvers, exceeds demanding U.S. high shear and stay-in-grade requirements for viscosity breakdown protection. Rapid acceleration, sudden stops and high-revving all push your engine to work harder and run hotter. The extreme stress and searing heat generated from this hard driving can shear and volatilize oil, leading to viscosity and thermal breakdown.
CASTROL GTX – MAXIMUM PROTECTION AGAINST VISCOSITY AND THERMAL BREAKDOWN
Features and Benefits:
• The highest North American standard of protection against viscosity breakdown.
• Advanced anti-wear additives to help extend engine life.
• Superior detergency action to help prevent deposits."

The GTX Start Up oil does say that it has polarized molecules, but the plain GTX does not say that. Nothing about Magnetec or polar activity or any other red flags for an Auto-Rx user.

If Auto-Rx has a list of oils that do not work well with your product, please post them clearly.


Ken

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
Gary, since you have made this issue public after I sent you a private email, to explain the problem, I will try again.

---

Made what public? Your PM told me to rinse the engine again for 2000 miles with some non-synthetic oil and then do further 3000 miles with dino to work on my valve guides. I don't see how I brought the issue of a further clean to light (before this). Also, I have never mentioned valve guides before, only a lifter.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
If you read the web site and all the message board's it say's continually to use "NON Synthetic" oil for the rinse cycle. Castro GTX has changed's it's formula and now is GTX Magnatec (meaning it's additive package is polarized to cling to metal) and will not let you flush away your liquified "crud" easily hence your frustration.

---

FYI, I have read practically every thread about Auto-RX on this forum and the one at www.auto-rx.com. The problem with saying "use "NON Synthetic" oil for the rinse cycle" is that very few people seem to know what oils actually fall
into this category. It appears that even Pablo, whom you suggested I ask what oil to use for the rinse phase, was under the impression that GTX was suitable. If people with his oil background don't have all of the necessary info and/or can't keep up with the publically-unreleased changes in oil formulation, then how is your typical customer supposed to know what's an appropriate oil to use?


Is the new GTX formulation actually called GTX Magnatec, or is is still called GTX? My bottles only say GTX on them.

Most importantly, I'm not frustrated at all. i purposely didn't write this in the original post, but MY conclusion of this study was that Auto-RX didn't fail, but that my engine wasn't that dirty to begin with and there was nothing really for the Auto-RX to attack. I'm still a firm believer in the power of Auto-RX, I just don't think it was all that necessary on my engine. And to bring up the lifter again, I didn't expect the Auto-RX to fix that. I realize it's not a "mechanic in the bottle", but figured it couldn't hurt to give it a shot anyway.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
Also if you drain the oil when it is hot it will remove even more.

---

I always drain the oil when it's hot. I'm not an idiot.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
Many oil's have changed their formula's without informing the general public, so that why I stress "Plain Jane Oil" with simple additive package. Auto-Rx will "CLEAN" with any oil.

---

This is unfortunate. Maybe I missed something in the many hours I've spent on this website, but I was under the impression that GTX was a "plain jane oil", especially when compared with the stuff that many people on here typically use (Mobil1, Amsoil, GC, etc). I haven't yet seen posted that the formulation was changed, which would have been nice to know before I started.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frank:
We are not in the oil business ask "Pablo" or "Terry" what "RINSE" oil they suggest and do the rinse again per the instructions on www.auto-rx.com take the filter of after your done and take photos and post again.ps. Your valve tick should be much better once rinse oil cleans off the valve guides.

---

Maybe not in the traditional sense, but since your product is designed to undue the damage caused by oil, it makes sense that you and/or your company would know what oils work best with your product. While Auto-Rx appears to be a great product, I have to admit that your support and promotion of the product needs some work. As good as Auto-RX is, you've made it clear that it won't do it's job properly if the wrong oil is used. Why not take the time to generate and update a list of approved oils that is provided along with the instructions you package with the product. This would take the guess work out of it for your current and future customers. If I were selling Auto-RX, I would want EVERY customer to do the procedure correctly. To ensure that happens, I would go beyond saying "plain jane oil" and produce an extensive list of known oils that are suitable. Remember, a happy customer is a repeat customer.

Gary

 

[VgRt6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken2:
If Auto-Rx has a list of oils that do not work well with your product, please post them clearly.

---

Exactly. The more Frank and his company can do to ensure that customers use his product properly, the more customers he'll have.

Gary

 

[kevz]

OK...are there any other Dino oils that we should avoid when using ARX?

 

[deepsquat]

hey why not just tell people to use either ..cheveron, havoline or plain old valvoline ..surely anyone can find one of these 3 at a local store ? End the confusion