ATGATT?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quote:
I don't wear one because I think they are more of a hindrance than a help.


Obviously you've never crashed. I hope you don't cuz if you do, you're toast.
 
I think that a fella is much more likely to sustain worse injuries if he's in jeans and no helmet. Much worse.

I've been down hard and it just about ripped a pair of jeans right off of me. Road rash everywhere. Took a long time to heal. My knee imprints were in the side of the car that pulled in front of me.

Got t-boned at a stoplight once while waiting for the light to change. Car came out of nowhere and ran a red light and couldn't make the turn. Had nowhere to go. That wasn't pretty and it didn't tickle.

Still, I'm not into ATGATT. Boots, leather gloves and a 3/4 helmet or a full faced helmet in the winter time. We do have amored mesh jackets and wear leather jackets in cooler weather but when it's 90+ degrees then we are in tshirts and jeans.

Not saying that this is for anyone else but if I had to ride ATGATT then I would not be riding much.

Opinions and experiences by Kevin: your mileage can and will vary.
 
Sometimes for me, wearing ATGATT is hard, especially when it is very hot, but I choose to do it. I'm thankful for all the great and inexpensive gear that is available to riders.

If you don't wear ATGATT, then that is your decision and no judgement from me.

States that have mandatory helmet laws are usually trying to treat motorcyclists as consistently as car drivers who are required to wear seatbelts -- IMO
 
Originally Posted By: JT1
michigan has what I like to call a stupid people tax.


Maybe there should be a stupid people tax for all the car drivers not wearing helmets since car accidents are a leading cause of head and brain injuries.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Quote:
I don't wear one because I think they are more of a hindrance than a help.


Obviously you've never crashed. I hope you don't cuz if you do, you're toast.


Twice, both due to cagers. Got up, brushed off, calmed down, and rode away.
 
Originally Posted By: swimmer
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Jeans 99.99% of the time, boots and leather jacket if the temp is below about 70-75, and transition lens sunglasses. Helmets are a personal choice and on the road my personal choice is that I don't wear one because I think they are more of a hindrance than a help. On the track or off-road I wear a helmet pretty much every time.

Don't you have to wear ATGATT 100% of time at the track?


Yes, but not off-road.
 
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Obviously you've never crashed. I hope you don't cuz if you do, you're toast.


Twice, both due to cagers. Got up, brushed off, calmed down, and rode away.

Sounds pretty mild then, no?
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Obviously you've never crashed. I hope you don't cuz if you do, you're toast.


Twice, both due to cagers. Got up, brushed off, calmed down, and rode away.

Sounds pretty mild then, no?


Relatively speaking, yes. Minor damage to one bike, mirror, T/S, peg, lever and some scuffs. The other bike rode away but then wouldn't go out of first gear and ended up having $2,500 in damage, including peg, lever, shifter, caliper, internal transmission, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: kballowe
I think that a fella is much more likely to sustain worse injuries if he's in jeans and no helmet. Much worse.

I've been down hard and it just about ripped a pair of jeans right off of me. Road rash everywhere. Took a long time to heal. My knee imprints were in the side of the car that pulled in front of me.

Got t-boned at a stoplight once while waiting for the light to change. Car came out of nowhere and ran a red light and couldn't make the turn. Had nowhere to go. That wasn't pretty and it didn't tickle.

Still, I'm not into ATGATT. Boots, leather gloves and a 3/4 helmet or a full faced helmet in the winter time. We do have amored mesh jackets and wear leather jackets in cooler weather but when it's 90+ degrees then we are in tshirts and jeans.

Not saying that this is for anyone else but if I had to ride ATGATT then I would not be riding much.

Opinions and experiences by Kevin: your mileage can and will vary.


+1

You pretty much nailed it. Since I have a car for bad weather days, I can choose when and where I ride.

Its all about managing risk and I am ATGATT about 80% of the time but I wear a helmet 99% of the time.
 
Originally Posted By: cfromc
... I don't wear one because I think they are more of a hindrance than a help
I fully support your right to choose if you want to wear a helmet or not. We all make decisions of how much risk we want to take for ourselves.

But I 100% disagree that helmets are a hindrance. Perhaps a $5 novelty helmet that many folks wear, but a proper Snell rated full face helmet absolutely reduces your risk in a crash.

That a proper helmet reduces risk is a fact. Whether you feel it's worth it to you is an opinion. Don't get those two mixed up.
 
I really don't understand how anyone can ride without a helmet and a full face shield. I've been whacked on the faceshield so many times by flying junk like sticks, rocks, big bugs, etc. After a long ride you can see the black streaks on the white helmet from various crud that has flown by.
 
Originally Posted By: Lorenzo
That a proper helmet reduces risk is a fact. Whether you feel it's worth it to you is an opinion. Don't get those two mixed up.


Whose fact? Please provide sources for that "fact". Is it a fact all the time or just sometimes? If it is not a fact 100% of the time, then is it still a fact? I thought my earlier statements were clear that it was my opinion and choice and I was not declaring it a "fact" by qualifying with "I think" instead of "I know" or "it is"

Perhaps a Snell rated full-face helmet reduces head damage in a crash but I don't believe wearing a helmet reduces your risk of a crash. Actually, I think it increases your chances of a crash.
 
Well, I now live in the land of "Bike week" and its more a contest down here with the bikers to look cool then functional or actually survive the slightest crash. Everytime I see this debate, I think of the time I jumped on my bike to run down to the conivenience store a mile from my house during bike week, I wore a helmet but had on shorts and sandals and a T shirt. I pulled into the store pulled off my helmet and went in the store when I came out a group of "Harley" riders pulled in, in thier leather jackets, leather chaps, leather boots, leather gloves but not one helmet between them. They actually said nice boots, not much protection for you feet, I told them, I can live inconvieniently for awhile with a cast, try patching up your skull. Just dont get it, see ever year. One good tap on your noggin and your eating through a straw the rest of your life, if you live. I wrecked enough dirt bikes and Iam glad I had a helmet on, when you flying through the air and you know a impact is imminent, bet you will wish you had the helmet on.
 
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Is it a fact all the time or just sometimes? If it is not a fact 100% of the time, then is it still a fact?
C, the way you asked that question makes it clear you do not grasp some fundamental concepts of risk and probability.

Smoking increases the chance you will get cancer. That's a fact. It does not mean 100% of smokers get cancer, and it does not mean nonsmokers will never get cancer. It means smokers increase the chance they will get cancer.

Wearing a helmet reduces the chance you will be injured if you crash and it reduces the severity of injuries. That does not mean helmets always prevent an injury and it does not mean you are guaranteed to be injured without one. It means the helmet reduces that risk of injury.

Can you come up with a 1 in 10,000 scenario where a helmet might make an injury worse? Probably, but overall you have less risk with the helmet.

Whether that additional risk is acceptable to you is a matter of opinion. Most people think riding a motorcycle at all is not worth the risk, but to me the enjoyment of the activity is worthwhile so I chose to take that risk. But it would be nonsense to say motorcycling is as safe as a car just to justify my choice.

Maybe you don't like helmets and to you the increased risk is worth the increased enjoyment. I support your right to make that choice just like I support the right of people to smoke if they want. Just don't go around saying cigarettes are good for you or helmets cause injuries in order to justify that choice.
 
Ah, we can all live with the road rash.

It's the mini van with screaming kids and the driver on the cell phone that runs over you.. that scares the [censored] out of me.
 
Originally Posted By: Lorenzo
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Is it a fact all the time or just sometimes? If it is not a fact 100% of the time, then is it still a fact?
C, the way you asked that question makes it clear you do not grasp some fundamental concepts of risk and probability.

Smoking increases the chance you will get cancer. That's a fact. It does not mean 100% of smokers get cancer, and it does not mean nonsmokers will never get cancer. It means smokers increase the chance they will get cancer.

Wearing a helmet reduces the chance you will be injured if you crash and it reduces the severity of injuries. That does not mean helmets always prevent an injury and it does not mean you are guaranteed to be injured without one. It means the helmet reduces that risk of injury.

Can you come up with a 1 in 10,000 scenario where a helmet might make an injury worse? Probably, but overall you have less risk with the helmet.

Whether that additional risk is acceptable to you is a matter of opinion. Most people think riding a motorcycle at all is not worth the risk, but to me the enjoyment of the activity is worthwhile so I chose to take that risk. But it would be nonsense to say motorcycling is as safe as a car just to justify my choice.

Maybe you don't like helmets and to you the increased risk is worth the increased enjoyment. I support your right to make that choice just like I support the right of people to smoke if they want. Just don't go around saying cigarettes are good for you or helmets cause injuries in order to justify that choice.


Lorenzo, we need to separate, or at least identify the risks. You are referring to the risk of injury during a crash. There is a second risk, that is of getting into a crash in the first place. I believe that, on average, the use of a helmet on public roadways increases the risk of a crash, although in some cases use of a helmet may reduce the risk. Drawback: reduced hearing and peripheral eyesight, Benefit: more protection from airborne debris. Once a crash has occurred there are drawbacks to a helmet, including the increased weight and the ability of rescue personnel to remove the helmet, there are benefits including surface protection of the head and some impact protection. I'm not denying that. What I am saying is that a blanket and dismissive statment like "a proper helmet reduces risk is a fact" is not at all a fact and is your opinion. - Just like your statement that "overall you have less risk with the helmet". Less risk of what? Certainly you don't believe that helmet use is more likely to prevent an accident than it is to cause one....?

Even the actual Snell standard uses terms like "can minimize the risk" [emphasis added by me] and "The protective capacity of a helmet is difficult to estimate", "since the range of vision you obtain may vary considerably from our measurement, be absolutely certain that the helmet and face shield permit you adequate vision." [What is "adequate" and do I really want just adequate vision?].

The helmets are tested using destructive tests, and while there are ["minimum" or "adequate"] vision standards required, clearly the emphasis is on protection during an accident, and not on accident avoidance.
Further, what is the speed the helmet is tested at, 17MPH?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Lorenzo
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Is it a fact all the time or just sometimes? If it is not a fact 100% of the time, then is it still a fact?
C, the way you asked that question makes it clear you do not grasp some fundamental concepts of risk and probability.

Smoking increases the chance you will get cancer. That's a fact. It does not mean 100% of smokers get cancer, and it does not mean nonsmokers will never get cancer. It means smokers increase the chance they will get cancer.

Wearing a helmet reduces the chance you will be injured if you crash and it reduces the severity of injuries. That does not mean helmets always prevent an injury and it does not mean you are guaranteed to be injured without one. It means the helmet reduces that risk of injury.

Can you come up with a 1 in 10,000 scenario where a helmet might make an injury worse? Probably, but overall you have less risk with the helmet.

Whether that additional risk is acceptable to you is a matter of opinion. Most people think riding a motorcycle at all is not worth the risk, but to me the enjoyment of the activity is worthwhile so I chose to take that risk. But it would be nonsense to say motorcycling is as safe as a car just to justify my choice.

Maybe you don't like helmets and to you the increased risk is worth the increased enjoyment. I support your right to make that choice just like I support the right of people to smoke if they want. Just don't go around saying cigarettes are good for you or helmets cause injuries in order to justify that choice.


+1 couldnt say it any better myself.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

X
New to me 2008 Zuma 50cc 2 cycle final drive fluid question
Replies
18
Views
262
Cujet
PandaBear
COLD climate clothing for Fairbanks in Dec.
2 3
Replies
55
Views
2K
wpod
wavinwayne
Should I buy Thorogood 1957 boots?
Replies
12
Views
815
JoeDirt41
L
5w-40 in a Twin Cam 88?
Replies
17
Views
764
repairman54
y_p_w
What's the deal with the sizing of pants?
2
Replies
20
Views
570
mikeduf
Back
Top Bottom