ATF servicing intervals

[Hall]

Sorry. That ain't the way it works. Lifetime fluid is an example.

Sorry, you're wrong. While you or I or anyone here may not agree with it, the majority of vehicles end up with "lifetime fluid" and they survive (long enough). Besides, define "lifetime". The automakers do not, now do they ?

Do you know what marketing people typically do ? They design websites (the look, not the programming behind it), sales brochures, post things on Facebook, etc. If it's a consumer product (something that comes in a box), they create the designs on the box. Owners manuals are written by folks from the engineering or technical side of a company (with review from the legal folks, of course). Marketing is not on that side of businesses.

 

[RooflessVW]

Sorry, you're wrong. While you or I or anyone here may not agree with it, the majority of vehicles end up with "lifetime fluid" and they survive (long enough). Besides, define "lifetime". The automakers do not, now do they ?

Do you know what marketing people typically do ? They design websites (the look, not the programming behind it), sales brochures, post things on Facebook, etc. If it's a consumer product (something that comes in a box), they create the designs on the box. Owners manuals are written by folks from the engineering or technical side of a company (with review from the legal folks, of course). Marketing is not on that side of businesses.

I don't think you understand marketing.

Marketing dictates all, from the sound a door latch makes to the interior smell to what service intervals are more likely to be accepted by the consumer.

 

[UncleDave]

Marketing groups aren't going to promote things that are technically infeasible. They'd be overruled.... Marketing also doesn't do anything in regards to owners manuals beyond designing the pretty front cover pages.

Depends on the company. Some marketing departments are great, other are clueless drones working on a coprorate agenda.

I've read brochures for my own product that arent REMOTELY like the product actually works. (autodesk)

Marketing likes to pretend they are in sales until you have to deal with an angry end user then they get amnesia.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Here is what I think the Lexus lifetime ATF fluid is all about.
Lexus competes with Beemer, MBZ and other luxury cars.
A large number of their sales are 3 year leases; they want you back in 3 years.
Other cars in their category have "lifetime ATF fluid".
So to keep up, Lexus (and Toyletta) claim "lifetime fluid".
What exactly is "lifetime fluid"? It's a marketing term.

RooflessVW hit the nail on the head; sales and marketing run the business.
If you don't think so, check relative salaries.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Depends on the company. Some marketing departments are great, other are clueless drones working on a coprorate agenda.

I've read brochures for my own product that arent REMOTELY like the product actually works. (autodesk)

Marketing likes to pretend they are in sales until you have to deal with an angry end user then they get amnesia.

In total, yes. But in the case of major car manufacturers, I suggest sales and marketing runs the show.
It the marketeers fail, world class engineering and manufacturing functions are moot.

Your thoughts?

 

[CKN]

Here is what I think the Lexus lifetime ATF fluid is all about.
Lexus competes with Beemer, MBZ and other luxury cars.
A large number of their sales are 3 year leases; they want you back in 3 years.
Other cars in their category have "lifetime ATF fluid".
So to keep up, Lexus (and Toyletta) claim "lifetime fluid".
What exactly is "lifetime fluid"? It's a marketing term.

RooflessVW hit the nail on the head; sales and marketing run the business.
If you don't think so, check relative salaries.

Yes-but if you look at miles (average) driven-those cars are going to have between 30,000 and 45,000 miles at lease end. Any transmission fluid can easily go that interval.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes-but if you look at miles driven-those cars are going to have between 30,000 and 45,000 miles at lease end. Any transmission fluid can easily go that interval.

So 45K is lifetime? I would hope not.

 

[CKN]

So 45K is lifetime? I would hope not.

It's going to be lifetime as far as the first "Lease" is concerned. As I mentioned in another thread-I drained my Silverado at 50,000 miles (half of those were towing 5,000 pounds) and it could have easily gone longer-by how it looked visually.

 

[TheBig2003]

Every 40,000km or two years for me. Never an issue if I follow my old man's plans he ingrained in me from childhood.

 

[UncleDave]

In total, yes. But in the case of major car manufacturers, I suggest sales and marketing runs the show.
It the marketeers fail, world class engineering and manufacturing functions are moot.

Your thoughts?

I see why you say that and mostly agree.
The volt comes to mind - awesome vehicle but hardly anyone knew how it really worked.

Marketing failed, so then did sales.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It's going to be lifetime as far as the first "Lease" is concerned. As I mentioned in another thread-I drained my Silverado at 50,000 miles (half of those were towing 5,000 pounds) and it could have easily gone longer-by how it looked visually.

So "lifetime" means 45K. Why not 100K or 200K or 99 years or ???
Unless it is clearly defined, "lifetime" becomes meaningless. It is purely a marketing term.

 

[webfors]

Wow, you guys are making me sound delinquent on my maintenance!

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I serviced my bmw e90 325i zf6hp 6speed auto after 182k miles/293k kilometers, eventhoug bmw tells its for life, zf who makes the trans says to do it every 100k miles/160k km.
Only did an oil service with filter(complete sump) replacement and prevently replaced one of the o rings between the mechatronic and the housing which is crucial for pressurizing the clutch packs and torqueconverter.

I did not chose to flush it, mainly because all the companys that offer flush services use oil from their supplier and i insisted on sticking with the zf lifeguard 6 oem oil made by Shell m1375.4 and it is fully syntethic according to german law. (was the most expensive though)

Cars life was mostly (hard)highway milage and some trailer hauling although not a lot.
Eventhough the oil came out pretty black coloured and smelled a little like clutch fibers, this was all normal contamination.
Because you can not drain the torque converter and oil cooiler i could not drain it all but i guess about 1.5l of oil stayed in the system and i drained/used 7 liters of new oil.

The paper filter was perfectly clean and the magnets had only some verry slight contamintion of wear metals.

I will do this again at 244k miles/393k kilometers. And after that again at 306k miles/ 493k kilometers so every 60k miles/100k kilometers.

Verdict:

Although these automatics can get high milage without OC it is recomended not to stick to bmw fill for life procedure, ZF the company who desgined the gearbox says 100k miles 160k kilometers so i would recommend to stick with this. Especially diesels who put more low end torque on it.

I guess that after x amount of time the oil starts to shear and most additives are lost so thats why its wise to change.
Personally i favor just changing over flushing. Sometimes flushing is marketed as curing AT problems but it will never do that, it can however create them.

 

[dubber09]

Lifetime ATF means - for warranty duration, that's all. Their warranties' obligations are over after that.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Lifetime ATF means - for warranty duration, that's all. Their warranties' obligations are over after that.

Yes maximum 4 a 5 years to offer cheap 4 year lease contracts which 99.999 procent easily make and if not it is likely that it was caused by lack of proper lubrication.

 

[Benzadmiral]

My Buick's maintenance schedule says every 45K miles, which is where I am right now. I don't know if the previous owner had the ATF/filter changed; I'm taking care of it this week. After that I'm thinking every 3 years, which the way I drive here runs out to 25-30K miles tops.

 

[dubber09]

Just figure it out how many oil changes you make in that ATF change interval and do ATF D/F when doing oil change. E.g. ATF D/F at every 10th oil change or so.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

For us DIYers assuming the fluid isn’t crazy expensive I’m a believer in doing it once a year or at the second oil change of the year along with Diff and Transfercase fluid. We have two Nissans who can’t make a transmission if their life depended on it. The truck it costs me $17 in fluid and I can drain and fill without lifting it, easiest job ever. I think I’ve eaten a burrito while doing that job. The Rogue? The hardest part of the job is removing the stupid chargepipe cap and the fluid is $37 from Valvoline. I think for both cars they default to 60,000 for the first service. I find it funny that automakers are super conservative with OCIs but are less conservative with ATF fluid.

 

[Jetronic]

I also think partial drain and fills are a valid option at reduced intervals. Especially if you can't access the cooler lines easily to flush the old fluid out.

 

[dubber09]

Every second oil change? IMHO it's a gross overkill, even every 6th oil change unless one changes oil every 10K miles.
My OCIs are 4K miles with synth oil but also mostly due to GDI in one and higher mileage engine in the other car. I'll stick to 40K miles ATF D/F as fluid comes out clear and looking quite fresh with very little in magnetic shavings on drain plug.