Asian brands overstate horsepower

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The original post was factual, and I have seen nothing posted by AJ in this thread that was his personal opinion........the other posters need to respect this fact.
 
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Factual or not, the poster has apparent bias towards Japanese and Asian cars in general having made it clear in other posts of his in the forum, so it was normal to suspect the intention of this post. No harm in bias or prejudice,we all have it in different doses, but when it becomes public, it makes us loose our objective and get into mud slinging which just becomes ugly, I can post myriads of articles on the un-reliability of over priced Euro cars but then that would not deter one from buying them if that person's mind is already made up.
 

VNT

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Actually, to me it sounds like Honda and toyota got caught inflating the numbers and now must come clean and the GM, Ford and DCX do not since they always underate their HP/TQ numbers. As I stated on this subject, I dynoed my PT GT and it is clear on the 2.4 Turbo they under rated it by a solid 15%. SO I guess they would not have to retest it.
quote:
Originally posted by Larry the Cable Guy: So what is the big deal? Two "Asian" brands retested their product lines according to the NEWEST standards. They did NOT overstate horsepower. They spent the bucks and published the results. Sounds pretty honest to me. Is Ford doing that? No. Is Chrysler doing that? No. Chrysler EXPECTS some of their ratings to drop. Are they testing with the NEW standards so that they may be honest about their claims? Not really...
quote:
Originally posted by Audi Junkie: Strict new tests developed by the industry's top engineering group. .. ...The revised ratings comply with new Society of Automotive Engineers standards designed to eliminate subjective interpretation in establishing horsepower claims... ...Over time, most automakers are expected to comply with the new guidelines, and horsepower ratings for other vehicles could be revised... ...Honda spokesman Mike Spencer predicted it would take a few years for customers to understand the changes, but eventually all manufacturers will be using the new SAE tests. "We've been using SAE procedures all along, it's just that SAE changed their procedures," he said... ...As the new testing procedure is phased in, it may be tricky for consumers. For example, the Ford Five Hundred sedan is rated at 203 horsepower for 2006, the same as the 2005 model. But the 2006 rating does not reflect the new SAE testing procedure, because Ford is not going to the expense of retesting its existing engines, said company spokesman Nick Twork. DaimlerChrysler is using the new SAE procedures on any model with changes in its powertrain, said spokesman Cole Quinnell. He said the company expects new ratings to be within 3 percent of the old ratings, with some going up and some going down. DaimlerChrysler is making a special effort to test high-performance models, like the Dodge Viper V-10. The Viper now tests at 510 horsepower, up from 500 in 2005.
[I dont know]

 
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quote:
Originally posted by VNT: Actually, to me it sounds like Honda and toyota got caught inflating the numbers and now must come clean and the GM, Ford and DCX do not since they always underate their HP/TQ numbers.
It's always better to give the customer more than they're expecting!
 

Jay

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I wonder if the "200 HP Civic" the author alludes to is really the Acura RSX Type-S? Acura advertised 200hp for this model from 2001 to 2004. Now I'm curious about what specifically was changed in Acura's measuring methods to make the new SAE HP for the RSX 5 HP less. Could I get 5 more hp out of my engine by using higher octane gas or running the oil level a little lower?
 

Bill in Utah

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So my 2005 Corolla only has 127 hp instead of the 130hp that they stated in the book! [Eek!] And I bought this car to be a sports car... [Wink] I guess I'll take the 3 hp less and live with averaging over the EPA Highway MPG of 41 the last 24k miles.. [Happy] [Big Grin] Take care, bill [Coffee]
 
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I have owned several new cars made here in the U.S.A. and never even came close to EPA fuel consumption estimates... both of my Toyotas met AND exceeded numbers on side window and that right now is more important.
 

Audi Junkie

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H2, the fact that none of your cars got EPA mileage make me suspious of your driving, not the cars ALL being overrated.
 
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I don't know about the HP ratings in my '95 Civic but I do know that it was EPA rated about 40 MPG freeway, and I actually get that, albeit mostly 'county road' driving. It's torque that counts, isn't it? HP is for the dragstrip...! SEMI-OT: I remember Richard Petty, when interviewed by one of the auto DIY mags many years ago, was asked: "Are you getting better gas mileage with the smaller engines now than you were with the 426 Hemi engines (or something like that). To which Mr. Petty replied: "Horsepower is what uses the gas, not high RPM on a small engine. The 426's flat used up the gas!"
 

Bill in Utah

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quote:
Originally posted by brianl703: I think that "feeling" you get from Toyota makes you drive in a more fuel-efficient manner.
No, thats the way I drive anything. Even rental cars. Respect the car and drive it like you'd like it to last. (and if you end up getting over 40 mpg all the better! [Big Grin] [Happy] ) [Cheers!] Take care, Bill
 

VNT

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quote:
Originally posted by H2GURU: I have owned several new cars made here in the U.S.A. and never even came close to EPA fuel consumption estimates... both of my Toyotas met AND exceeded numbers on side window and that right now is more important.
Well that is your experience, I have owned a dozen cars and everyone of them has met or exceeded the EPA highway mileage figure. The city figure has too many variables and isnt repeatable but highway figures are, assuming you drive the 65 mPH speed limit. Of course how did this thread change subject from fudging HP #'s to gas mileage??? Or is it peoples logic that it is OK as long as you get good gas mileage it is OK to inflate HP figures?? To me a company inflating their HP numbers to gain customers doesnt sound too ethical to me and doesnt deserve my business. Of course they (SAE) probably changed the rules so select companies cant get away with it anymore.
 

Audi Junkie

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quote:
I think that "feeling" you get from Toyota makes you drive in a more fuel-efficient manner.
[LOL!] lol [Duh!]
 
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Just like companies inflating their HP numbers to gain sales is un-ethical, so is over charging junk, ordinary and un-reliable vehicles to gullible and delusional customers for a brand name or a badge or country of origin or pedigree. Since when did ethics ever exist in business or politics, anyone who believes so fooling oneself.
 

Audi Junkie

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So, when can we buy the $75,000 cars from India that run perfectly forever? Sign me up, my RS6 is supposedly the top sedan in the World...but those car magazine writers are delusional. [Roll Eyes]
 
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Hey, don't get personal, why bring in India, and we all know the apparent bias of magazines, they are a joke, top sedan my foot, check out CR and other ratings on your $75000 junk, you got suckered for your ego, don't' let others be the victims. BTW, India does make some fine diesel SUVs but don't think that would suit your upper crust high money taste. They certainly are built tougher than any Audi ever made, front end doesn't' need work at ever 30,000 miles [Smile] . You really think your Audi will last even close to say a MB W123 with OM series engine or an Accord, you are in a trance, or probably on something. At $75000, would rather buy a Acura NSX, Hummer or spend less and buy a Viper, Land Cruiser or Corvette ZR-1 but then thats me, won't force or coerce others to buy them. Next time leave my country alone, stay on course and comment on cars, not countries. With this posting, you have now certainly revealed your true intentions and I am glad that you did.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Audi Junkie: http://www.molon.de/galleries/India/Rajahstan/Road/img.php?pic=4 http://www.vagabonding.com/gallery_app/view_photo.php?set_albumName=india&id=DSC08830
So now expected, true colors revealed, these photos have no relation to this thread except to put down, glad you revealed your yourself, there is more to India than those pictures show, sadly, your mind frame is as limited as your automobile choice and knowledge. You can find the nice Tata Safari at http://www.tatamotors.com/home.php or the Mahindra Scorpio at http://www.mahindrascorpio.com/ plus the German 4x4 of the year Trax Gurkha along with every brand of high performance over priced Euro junk as well as Japanese cars, also Maybach etc. and all you can post is a three wheeler and a overloaded truck, how ridiculous and narrow, **** all I ever saw in PA during my drives from NY was farm implements, no wonder, you must have done a double mortgage on your farm to buy the sucker bait $75000 Audi Junk, the Germans must be rolling on the floor, specially Dr. Piech. How typical of you, don't think you get out of PA a lot. [ May 14, 2006, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Bio-T ]
 

VNT

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quote:
Originally posted by Gurkha: Just like companies inflating their HP numbers to gain sales is un-ethical, so is over charging junk, ordinary and un-reliable vehicles to gullible and delusional customers for a brand name or a badge or country of origin or pedigree. Since when did ethics ever exist in business or politics, anyone who believes so fooling oneself.
Unfortunatly the HP # is quantifiable under a test. Reliability is something you cannot measure easily, is very opinionated etc. Again stay on topic, dont side step this into quality debate.
 
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once again, they WEREN'T INFLATING THE NUMBERS. They were using the full range of methods ALLOWED WITHIN the test specifications to maximize the HP results. repeat: All of the methods they used were ALLOWED under the old procedures. Those methods are not allowed under the new procedures. The test parameters were changed. No one was cheating on the parameters, the parameters had a wide range of tolerance or in some cases DIDN'T EXIST IN THE OLD TESTS. If you don't follow a rule that doesn't exist, how is that cheating?
 
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