Here in NJ they changed the law such that plate frames are allowed as long as they're reasonable and don't block too much. Which is good so an EAGLES superbowl hating cop cannot pull me over.
article: why HOAs continue to be popular
- Thread starter GON
- Start date
10-15 ish years ago 4 plexes became very popular here. Some are combined in one building, others are separate, so 4 houses on 1 lot. Some of these lots were 4-5 acres, so the houses weren't exactly glued to each other.
The builders were able to combine the well and septic, which was ok then, per the building codes.
One person would buy, then lease out the other 3 as "income properties". Over the years, some of those units were subdivided and sold separate and then it became an issue. Septic needs replaced to the tune of 10 or 15k and trying to get several parties paying for it. Sometimes was bad enough that the owners didn't even know (allegedly) that they were on a septic.
A family friend's parents bought a retirement house in Florida some years ago with an HOA. They kept their places looking nice, they owned apartments near the beach in Wild Wood in the 80s-90s, some places in Maine, etc.
Anyhow, they sold it and took a loss after about a year. It was so back they were getting fined for things like having a hose for watering flowers out, putting a US flag up, trash bin being out like an hour after the trash truck came... when they were out in the hospital for serious medical issues and someone was watching the place, garage door left open during an afternoon while he was working in the yard and going in and out.
Was pretty much a crew of people with nothing better to do than find any little "wrong" and write it up. Like it was a barracks inspection in basic training!
It very quickly became more of a jail than a home.
An HOA and me wouldn't work. I have random heavy equipment in my door yard, couple trucks in various degrees of running/completion, a semi trailer, bulk fuel tank, few hundred cords of logs, etc.
Anyhow, they sold it and took a loss after about a year. It was so back they were getting fined for things like having a hose for watering flowers out, putting a US flag up, trash bin being out like an hour after the trash truck came... when they were out in the hospital for serious medical issues and someone was watching the place, garage door left open during an afternoon while he was working in the yard and going in and out.
Was pretty much a crew of people with nothing better to do than find any little "wrong" and write it up. Like it was a barracks inspection in basic training!
It very quickly became more of a jail than a home.
An HOA and me wouldn't work. I have random heavy equipment in my door yard, couple trucks in various degrees of running/completion, a semi trailer, bulk fuel tank, few hundred cords of logs, etc.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
@GON, thanks for posting this. 8 years ago we bought our first and likely only new home in an HOA and it's been overwhelmingly positive. The rules aren't excessive and deal mainly with keeping properties looking good and well maintained. This is a large development started 20 years ago and when finally built out in a couple more years will have over 2300 homes. 3 clubhouses with weight rooms, nice outdoor pools and tennis, pickleball and basketball courts. Dog parks. Not gated. We have good neighbors all around except bordering the back fence, barking dogs. I tried talking to them as suggested, never again. Barking dogs, loud music etc are town ordinance problems not HOA problems anyway. Someone made a comment about fake neighborhoods, don't understand that. We know all the surrounding neighbors here, at our previous non-HOA older neighborhood we knew 1. In this area if you want a decent newer home it's going to be in an HOA unless you have above average means. We read the rules decided we could live with them and signed on the line.
If you want to rebuild the motor in your Crown Vic in the driveway or paint your house orange or keep your cargo trailer in the front yard or not be bothered with yardwork or home maintenance an HOA isn't for you. We have 90 YOs and babies on our street. LOTS of Cali immigrants. Too many absentee owners with renters.
I bet there are way more decent HOAs than problem ones but they don't make the news. If a person, owner or renter doesn't read the rules before they sign and agree to follow them it's on them. It isn't hard to get the local vibe about an HOA development before committing. They aren't all like Sumboodie describes.
Some people on here hate HOAs more than @97prizm hates Tesla.
If you want to rebuild the motor in your Crown Vic in the driveway or paint your house orange or keep your cargo trailer in the front yard or not be bothered with yardwork or home maintenance an HOA isn't for you. We have 90 YOs and babies on our street. LOTS of Cali immigrants. Too many absentee owners with renters.
I bet there are way more decent HOAs than problem ones but they don't make the news. If a person, owner or renter doesn't read the rules before they sign and agree to follow them it's on them. It isn't hard to get the local vibe about an HOA development before committing. They aren't all like Sumboodie describes.
Some people on here hate HOAs more than @97prizm hates Tesla.
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I choose to NOT live in a HOA, I have lived in a HOA before, I also Inherited property recently in a HOA and I'm NOW selling it because its in a HOA.
I was a REALTOR for many years and I have personally purchased, owned and sold many HOA properties over the last 30 years, from high end homes, to the average Condo, Townhome even a few mobil Homes in MH communities. So I know all the good and bad that goes with a HOA.
With that HOA one gets lots of protections IF say the "Clampetts" move next door. I totally get that as without that HOA it can and does happen and every home on your street may not look alike without a HOA.
I have many friends who live in a HOA and those are the very friends who call and ask" Can I borrow your utility trailer I need to by some mulch". My HOA won't allow utility trailers he will tell me...
I live at the Beach and that same friend and I were talking about my Golf Cart, He states he would love to own a Golf Cart but his HOA won't allow it.
I have also seen when a HOA was needed and the builder didn't set one up, Thats a nightmare 20 years after the complex is built and the roads are now full of pot holes and every townhome has a different style and color roof, Time and place for a HOA IMO.
I have seen the Ugly, The HOA Politics, the HOA "Karen" walking the hood with her clipboard and her Eric Cartman "Respect" my Authoritah!
I have seen the "cooking of the books" when the HOA President hired a family member to do something for the HOA.
I would not wish an annual HOA meeting experience on my WORST Enemy, I have seen it almost come to fist fights! Nasty Experience with bad people.
Nope Not Me, I enjoy my unrestricted property...
Nope, I can't do it but truth be told I got a little Jed Clampett in me so best I not...
I was a REALTOR for many years and I have personally purchased, owned and sold many HOA properties over the last 30 years, from high end homes, to the average Condo, Townhome even a few mobil Homes in MH communities. So I know all the good and bad that goes with a HOA.
With that HOA one gets lots of protections IF say the "Clampetts" move next door. I totally get that as without that HOA it can and does happen and every home on your street may not look alike without a HOA.
I have many friends who live in a HOA and those are the very friends who call and ask" Can I borrow your utility trailer I need to by some mulch". My HOA won't allow utility trailers he will tell me...
I live at the Beach and that same friend and I were talking about my Golf Cart, He states he would love to own a Golf Cart but his HOA won't allow it.
I have also seen when a HOA was needed and the builder didn't set one up, Thats a nightmare 20 years after the complex is built and the roads are now full of pot holes and every townhome has a different style and color roof, Time and place for a HOA IMO.
I have seen the Ugly, The HOA Politics, the HOA "Karen" walking the hood with her clipboard and her Eric Cartman "Respect" my Authoritah!
I have seen the "cooking of the books" when the HOA President hired a family member to do something for the HOA.
I would not wish an annual HOA meeting experience on my WORST Enemy, I have seen it almost come to fist fights! Nasty Experience with bad people.
Nope Not Me, I enjoy my unrestricted property...
Nope, I can't do it but truth be told I got a little Jed Clampett in me so best I not...
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Go Birds
The issue is yes some hoa's are fine but some attract the wrong type to run them and every little thing is an infraction. If you get in and another overbearing person takes over then what? In Colorado numerous hoa's were out of control. They booted a guy's 5th wheel trailer in his own driveway when he had permission to have it.@GON, thanks for posting this. 8 years ago we bought our first and likely only new home in an HOA and it's been overwhelmingly positive. The rules aren't excessive and deal mainly with keeping properties looking good and well maintained. This is a large development started 20 years ago and when finally built out in a couple more years will have over 2300 homes. 3 clubhouses with weight rooms, nice outdoor pools and tennis, pickleball and basketball courts. Dog parks. Not gated. We have good neighbors all around except bordering the back fence, barking dogs. I tried talking to them as suggested, never again. Barking dogs, loud music etc are town ordinance problems not HOA problems anyway. Someone made a comment about fake neighborhoods, don't understand that. We know all the surrounding neighbors here, at our previous non-HOA older neighborhood we knew 1. In this area if you want a decent newer home it's going to be in an HOA unless you have above average means. We read the rules decided we could live with them and signed on the line.
If you want to rebuild the motor in your Crown Vic in the driveway or paint your house orange or keep your cargo trailer in the front yard or not be bothered with yardwork or home maintenance an HOA isn't for you. We have 90 YOs and babies on our street. LOTS of Cali immigrants. Too many absentee owners with renters.
I bet there are way more decent HOAs than problem ones but they don't make the news. If a person, owner or renter doesn't read the rules before they sign and agree to follow them it's on them. It isn't hard to get the local vibe about an HOA development before committing. They aren't all like Sumboodie describes.
Some people on here hate HOAs more than @97prizm hates Tesla.
Not a ton of HOAs exist where I live.
When they do exist, it seems like a developer gets in bed with the town planning office and creates an HOA to loophole around stuff. Example: Minimum lot size may be an acre per building. Land is half swamp, so they form an HOA to manage the "common area" and put twenty houses on the remaining ten acres. Obviously they make more money than a straight shooter who'd have to discard or ignore the junk land.
I'm philosophically opposed to HOAs because I think people should face their problems, and citizens of a town should use the structure of that town government to fix zoning problems or whatever else comes up. The "problem" is it's a more byzantine process to run for town council, because one has to follow election laws, and Karens don't have it in themselves to see the process through. Similarly, building a fence/gate to keep "them" out and not addressing structural problems affecting the rest of the citizens in your town is, to me, un-American.
When they do exist, it seems like a developer gets in bed with the town planning office and creates an HOA to loophole around stuff. Example: Minimum lot size may be an acre per building. Land is half swamp, so they form an HOA to manage the "common area" and put twenty houses on the remaining ten acres. Obviously they make more money than a straight shooter who'd have to discard or ignore the junk land.
I'm philosophically opposed to HOAs because I think people should face their problems, and citizens of a town should use the structure of that town government to fix zoning problems or whatever else comes up. The "problem" is it's a more byzantine process to run for town council, because one has to follow election laws, and Karens don't have it in themselves to see the process through. Similarly, building a fence/gate to keep "them" out and not addressing structural problems affecting the rest of the citizens in your town is, to me, un-American.
I would like to buy a Condo, but I will not now. Too many special assessments.
Most single family HOA's at most your have some community amenities to maintain.
A fairly nice older condo building downtown on the water was condemned not too long ago. They have to decide if they want to fix it - which there not even sure they can do but would cost hundreds of thousands per unit - or liquidate to a investor who would drop it an build a new one - in that case they might get $200K each or something. The units were going for maybe $600K before? Sad thing is that if they sell, whatever they build there next will start at $1.5M and normal people will not be able to afford it.
Our HOA doesn’t list b-ball hoops in the bylaws. There are three between four homes. None are used but I agree that the kids need something especially when there are no amenities such as a pool and-or green spaces such as my neighborhood. We have a renter across the street. The home owners contracted with a home management company to screen the applicants and also have them sign off on our HOA laws. She drives an upper end BMW, keeps the yard pristine, and has tastefully decorated the home for the holidays. Reasonable is the only term that makes an HOA group beneficial. It is funny that our Vice Chairman of our HOA doesn’t use a string trimmer and leaves his trash cans on the street for days… Of course his house is on the corner lot at the entrance to our neighborhood. Another neighbor cut up a fallen tree limb in this guy’s yard after it laid there for months. Things can get strange….
We sold our condo in Little River SC partly due to repeated special assessments. I had two HOA monthly fees. One for the condo and one for my boat slip in the marina. This HOA seemed to be run like the money laundering scheme in the show Ozark. Tremendous cost associated with “landscaping”, a multitude of “electrical issues” at the pool and marina, and replacing a very small ice maker multiple times every year. Funny thing was the “landscaping” consisted of a rag tag guy mowing, no edging, and running the blower around for hours doing absolutely nothing. Just noise. The “electrical” issues were truly a mystery. Never any repairs going on at the dock or pool. And the ice maker always had the same decals affixed, Gulp baits, pithy sayings (It’s 5 o’clock somewhere), and the same dent in the machine. I guess you can buy them equipped that way?? Anyway, we sold both the condo and boat slip. Don’t miss it at all…
I strongly suspect that this happens a lot. Probably most of the time.
Condo and single family HOA are worlds apart. My HOA fee is $800 a year. Biggest expense if staff - 2 full time one part time I think is around $200K, after that its pool.
We spent $25K painting the club house. The board wanted to use the "best" painters. Their actually not, they have the best advertising. They use the same subs as everyone else. It was quite a debate. I didn't get involved - my share was $50 for the expensive painters - a once a decade event.
Life is full of choices. If you live in an HOA and dont like it that is your fault. Lots of people cry about the rules after they move in, even though we are an older community on the coast, not a lot of rentals but our last community lots of belly aching about basketball hoops. Well hello? Due diligence, they should have read their documents when deciding to live there.... and please, don't blame others for not doing so, that's a cop-out.
My wife and I would never go back to a non HOA community, this is our second one. Our new one of almost 3 years sounds a lot like @AZjeff 's mentioned above. We are a huge community, gym, pools, indoor too, tennis, pickleball well run, neat and clean.
Private roads, security, gated, public not allowed on our roads etc.
Chose how you want to live. We love to stomp on others treasures!
My wife and I would never go back to a non HOA community, this is our second one. Our new one of almost 3 years sounds a lot like @AZjeff 's mentioned above. We are a huge community, gym, pools, indoor too, tennis, pickleball well run, neat and clean.
Private roads, security, gated, public not allowed on our roads etc.
Chose how you want to live. We love to stomp on others treasures!
There are times it would be nice to have enforceable rules.
We built a new house in a modest but "going to be nice" neighbourhood in 1978. We didn't have a garage but we had a side drive which when combined with the neighbour's side drive would have given both of us good access to a garage in the back yard. We paved a small parking area in front and we both paved our side drives, meeting nicely along the property line.
Then he parked a rusty, non running, unlicensed Mustang on his side of the side drive. And when we last visited that neighbourhood (for old times sake) it was still there. As far as I know it has only moved once in 47 years. For some reason he moved it down the street (towed probably) for exactly one week while we had our house for sale in 1989. We didn't have a for sale sign up and there was no way he would have known it was for sale as it was sold privately.
That Mustang doesn't look any better now than it did 47 years ago.
NO way! Really !?!?!?
I would recon the article to have some merit simply because money has flowed into the economy for 12 years or so now during good economic times. Consequently assume that would also increase HOA and other housing demand. Just think about the folks that made a lot of money selling during 19 that might of went to something like this.
That being said no way. My neighbor is quite lazy, uses used tires for plants, dilapidated outbuilding, treas and weeds growing up the outsides of the house. But, I don't care what SHE does to her own property. Decrease my property value? Then you won't be buying my house until I get what it's worth for my investment and work into it. I have 30x30 garage and a Pizza shop right next door just opened up so..there's value.
I don't plan to ever sell though.
I do think these HOAs are a place for those types of folks that want to have neighborhood rules. It will depend on what is and what it's not but for some they wouldn't see it any other way.
As for upkeep, just like an HOA, I can always pay for house and yard maintenance just like I do trash pickup but for now I do the dirty work. I think trash pickup is at least the bare minimum everyone should be required to have unless outside of town where you could just burn your own trash.
That being said no way. My neighbor is quite lazy, uses used tires for plants, dilapidated outbuilding, treas and weeds growing up the outsides of the house. But, I don't care what SHE does to her own property. Decrease my property value? Then you won't be buying my house until I get what it's worth for my investment and work into it. I have 30x30 garage and a Pizza shop right next door just opened up so..there's value.
I don't plan to ever sell though.
I do think these HOAs are a place for those types of folks that want to have neighborhood rules. It will depend on what is and what it's not but for some they wouldn't see it any other way.
As for upkeep, just like an HOA, I can always pay for house and yard maintenance just like I do trash pickup but for now I do the dirty work. I think trash pickup is at least the bare minimum everyone should be required to have unless outside of town where you could just burn your own trash.
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PontiacHO, about the same time you sold yours I was involved ( didn't own but involved as an agent) with a Condo not far from you in Garden City beach SC. This was a 4 story condo complex built in the 80's, Nothing fancy about like most other condos in the area, had a value of about $70 - $80K, 20 years ago.
Well at a annual meeting someone suggested a Elevator for the building would be a great idea ( NOT replace an old elevator but build a new one for this 4 story now 30+ year old building). A vote, bids and then You guessed it, SPECIAL ASSESSMENT!
$12,000 PER unit ! So a homeowner that may have paid $35K in 1988 gets a bill in the mail for $12K on his $70K unit!
IF YOU live on the 4 th floor that may be a great idea but what about that guy on the 1st floor with a $12K bill that if he don't pay he can sell or loose his condo!
That opened my eyes, I did buy a Condo in Garden City but as a agent in the business I know what property management company was best and what complexes had the stronger HOA, I purchased it short term to flip and did my research but it was a risk as all it takes is someone on the 4th floor suggesting a elevator, or a pickleball court or a lazy river, or whatever the new thing is at the time and would be a good idea and next thing you know you got a $12K+ bill you must pay!
After seeing that elevator thing happen I decided dealing with the County is hard enough with a possible surprise tax increase
I find I must be the ONE who decides how and on what I spend MY money, not a HOA.
I also understand and would tell my customers that owning beach property is VERY risky, You want to live near the coast you must be willing to pay to play and accept the risk and I actually had a form to sign saying that...
One of largest concerns about an HOA is that you cannot predict how it will change over time or what changes and or liabilities may be stacked upon you.
If you moved in without reading the rules - thats your fault.
If the rules changes out from under you radically - it's your problem.
Maintenance fund got squandered, raided, or flat stolen, or mismanaged - still your problem.
Board changes and control is handed over to insane people - your problem.
Parking gets reassigned, or new restrictions (like you cant park a boat in your own enclosed space) are implemented - it's your problem.
If 5 years in you get a giant bill because of something someone else did, or all of the sudden you have to make massive changes, or your own space has new restrictions its your problem.
You wake one morning to find a note on yoru door telling you to remove the "trash" from your patio- puzzled you call the HOA and learn your lawn furniture and grill are now considered "trash". I paid extra for a place with a nice patio only to have the rules change and be told that I could no longer basically use it after the fact.
You signed up to allow someone else to control your largest investment and you get whatever is coming your way as a consequence.
I choose not to give up control of my assets and investments to unknown and ever changing 3rd parties.
You want to live your life under the control of someone else - totally your call.
If you moved in without reading the rules - thats your fault.
If the rules changes out from under you radically - it's your problem.
Maintenance fund got squandered, raided, or flat stolen, or mismanaged - still your problem.
Board changes and control is handed over to insane people - your problem.
Parking gets reassigned, or new restrictions (like you cant park a boat in your own enclosed space) are implemented - it's your problem.
If 5 years in you get a giant bill because of something someone else did, or all of the sudden you have to make massive changes, or your own space has new restrictions its your problem.
You wake one morning to find a note on yoru door telling you to remove the "trash" from your patio- puzzled you call the HOA and learn your lawn furniture and grill are now considered "trash". I paid extra for a place with a nice patio only to have the rules change and be told that I could no longer basically use it after the fact.
You signed up to allow someone else to control your largest investment and you get whatever is coming your way as a consequence.
I choose not to give up control of my assets and investments to unknown and ever changing 3rd parties.
You want to live your life under the control of someone else - totally your call.
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Something sounds amiss, because they can't just change the rules. If the rules are spelled out - it requires a vote, and in my case for example 60% of the owners must vote to change. Not 60% of the vote, an actual 60% of all owners must vote for the change.
Now of course 60% of my neighbors could decide lawn chairs are trash then I would be SOL.
Generally, condo and shared wall type properties are far more restrictive than single family HOA's - but yes anything is possible.
Of course lots of people here complain constantly because they can't permanently park their RV or commercial van overnight. I don't want a long line of commercial vehicles and RV's lining the street. So I am OK with this rule.
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