article: why HOAs continue to be popular

[alarmguy]

That’s because people who complain are vocal. People who are satisfied don’t post positive stories about how much they like living with an HOA. This leads to a false impression.

I don’t recall developers boasting to come buy here - “there’s no HOA!”.

Spot on.
The ones that don’t like HOA’s for some reason, feel compelled to want to rewrite rules to fit their lifestyle and opinions. That’s very interesting if you think about it, the people who choose to live in HOA are blasted by negative comments of the people who don’t want you to live there.

 

[Cropduster172]

I agree there is no benefit to a homeowner if the property values all go up. It just costs more for everything. That is an entirely different conversation, not based on HOA.

HOA fees are based on costs, not home values. Unlike taxes or insurance. Everyone in the HOA generally pays the same amount. The amount is base on the budget, which has to be approved by the board usually and again has nothing to do with home values.

Taxes are whatever they are. Some states cap them and some don't. Insurance is same.

This.
Also, the equity made on a well maintained home in a desirable location will be significantly more than the net expense of HOA fees.
I enjoy the visual peace of not having to see political signs and tacky lawn ornaments.

 

[loneryder]

Over the years there have been dozens of discussions on BITOG about HOA horror stories. Regularly I read like horror stories on the internet and often see news broadcasts with HOA horror stories. Yet, the linked article below states HOAs are more popular and in demand now than ever.

The article author's thesis on why HOAs are in such strong demand by homebuyers:

"The reason is simple: The HOA is the last legal mechanism Americans have to artificially recreate something the country once produced organically — a high-trust society."

A few more paragraphs from the article"

"People want neighborhoods where streets feel safe, houses stay maintained, and neighbors behave predictably. We call these places “high trust” because people do not expect those around them to violate basic standards. Doors remain unlocked, kids play outside, and property values rise. Americans once assumed this was the natural condition of ordinary life. It never was.

High-trust societies are not accidental. They emerge only under specific cultural conditions. Trust forms when people can understand and predict the behavior of those around them. That requires a shared standard — how to act, how to maintain property, how to handle conflict. When those standards come from a common way of life, enforcement becomes minimal. People feel free not because they reject limits, but because the limits match their instincts and expectations.

Every social order requires maintenance, but the amount varies. When most residents share the same assumptions, small gestures keep the peace. A disapproving look from Mrs. Smith over an unkempt lawn prompts action. A loud party until 1 a.m. results in lost invitations until the offender corrects the behavior. Police rarely if ever enter the picture. The community polices itself through mutual judgment."

The article caught me by surprise. If in fact the author of the article is correct, I never would have guessed in a million years HOA popularity has a increase in demand/ on the rise.

https://www.theblaze.com/columns/op...ions-werent-supposed-to-replace-civilization?

I've lived in several HOA neighborhoods. The only good thing I see about them is house appreciation. I've made money of every house. Other than that, they have huge books of rules and that allows people to become involved in interpreting them and enforcing them. One planned community I lived in had Bike paths installed before the first house was built. They were called Bike paths on the master plan. Next thing you know people on the board tried to legislate bikes off the bike paths. They also wanted to tell you what you could plant in front of your house. Normal people with no authority or power in life become tyrants when they get on the BOD.

 

[PontiacHO]

Say what you will about the negative controls folks may feel an HOA can create but…if you’ve ever lived near folks that decide to put a junker on cinder blocks in their yard or have three families living in one house (renters) and you are trying to sell your home, I bet you’re going to see how an effective HOA could have helped. That’s happened to me. There had to be a reduction in my house price (below comps and market) to attract the “right buyer” to finally sell. Sure I confronted both homeowners regarding the junk car and the multifamily renters. I was laughed at.

 

[Leo99]

There are pros and cons. As mentioned, you don't need an HOA if you have good neighbors. You could also say you don't need the police if everyone is a good person. Sadly, some people need additional structure and enforcement to be good people.

 

[PandaBear]

HOA rules should be posted on the internet, and there should be a link to it from any real estate listing. Personally, I wouldn't even make an offer on any real estate in a HOA without first reading through the rules and checking on their financials, etc. Everything else being equal, I would consider property in a HOA being less desirable and of less value than something not in a HOA.

Your agent will review the HOA's balance sheet and warn you about stuff in finance.

If you just don't like the Karens, you have to be a Karen to win another Karen by joining the HOA. There is no way to guarantee no future Karen will join yours.

 

[PandaBear]

My view on HOA is it is a necessary evil if your community has to share something, like a pool or clubhouse, driveway, landscaping, gates, etc. Just because you have an HOA doesn't mean it is a gated community and I think in many areas gated community is a security measure, an oasis in a bad area. My HOA doesn't have a gate.

I have dealt with penny pinching neighbor and badly maintained homes that HOA would have force those repairs before they were bad. I had to tell my neighbor if she refuse to chip in a new fence I will pay for it myself and make it "single sided" with the ugly side on her side. If you love to save money and don't mind eye sores, HOA is probably not for you. If you are all about everything looks like the day you bought it but don't want to actually DIY, then HOA is probably for you.

I've read the HOA's accounting, things look normal to me in the cost, yeah it is expensive, so are doing things by hiring people yourself. Unless you cut corners somewhere HOA is not significantly more expensive. I have no time to build my own fence or replacing my own roof or doing asphalt work with my neighbors to save labor cost, so I don't mind paying HOA to do it.

 

[k1xv]

Around here we are in a rural environment. Even though we have zoning, it isn't enforced because the town is too scared of its own shadow to do anything more than ask a property owner to voluntarily comply.

Everyone pretty much behaves themselves, but some expectations are extreme. I have a second home owner next door, a retired dentist from Long Island. He hates my amateur radio antenna even though it isn't visible from his second home, but he can see it for a split second as he approaches his home. Nobody else has ever complained. In fact, most neighbors do not even know it exists. The Long Island Dentist thinks when he comes here, everything needs to be perfect for him, like he is visiting Disneyland. Yet he cleared all the trees around his white painted house, high on a hill. The house can be seen from 6 miles away and detracts from the view of the mountain we are on. He has a tremendous view for miles. But then he complained when a cell tower was installed three miles away, and he can see it from his porch. The cell tower is at a lower altitude, and was installed so that the people down in the valley have cell service. Which he also has. He became such an annoyance to me that I blocked his ability to phone me.

Then we have another guy in town whose house is on one side of the main road through town, and his garage on the opposite side. He is a political wingnut and his property is covered in political signs, many of which are offensive. Yet he complains about his next door neighbor, who has an unregistered car in his driveway.

Its human nature. These people seem to think they should be able to do anything they want, but everyone else should be restricted. Their motto is "I'm OK, but you are not OK"

 

[2002 Maxima SE]

We lived in an HOA in NC for 20 years vs now our small neighborhood in TN does not. In NC, our HOA was well run for the first 15 years: same leadership, low quarterly dues ($50), security team, housing upkeep rules enforced and reasonable process to make changes. In year 16, we had some malcontents push out the leadership and began to change what worked: removed security because it was expensive but not lower dues, crime began to increase. Selective enforcement on house standards, some houses became unsightly. Little to no communication (meeting minutes and HOA newsletter canceled). Some of the new members began to wield there power against other neighbors. It was nice while it lasted.

In our new non-HOA neighborhood it's 99% maintained except for one neighbor. Barking pack of dogs, cars in the front yard, parking on our property, and trash scattered about. He must realize because he communicated to us after we moved in he wants to rent his house to low lifes who will make it more unsightly. Despite the lack of HOA, I've heard stories that the neighbors have banded together when outlying land was threatened with zoning changes.

 

[zzyzzx]

Your agent will review the HOA's balance sheet and warn you about stuff in finance.

They should, but given that most relators got into the business because they are lazy to begin with, that is not a reasonable expectation.

 

[02SE]

I wouldn't live in an HOA, as every one I've seen has the homes packed in close to the neighbors. I don't want to live that close to the neighbors.

We're fortunate to have good neighbors who are friends, and who maintain their properties. Maybe we get along so well, because we're not living right on top of each other.

 

[PandaBear]

They should, but given that most relators got into the business because they are lazy to begin with, that is not a reasonable expectation.

You don't get into RE agency because you are lazy. They do a lot of work when there is no guarantee of getting a deal. Sometimes you get lucky but you have to have a buffer of living expense before you can do those work.

My parents were agents. Sometimes they close multiple deals a month sometimes nothing close despite lots of work for a couple months. In the US if you work for a major company as an agent you have to follow their rules on what to do, and they are mostly to avoid getting sued not to save you a few hours of work.

 

[IndyIan]

There are pros and cons. As mentioned, you don't need an HOA if you have good neighbors. You could also say you don't need the police if everyone is a good person. Sadly, some people need additional structure and enforcement to be good people.

It does seem odd that some municipalities don't have some basic by-laws for living semi-respectively with your neighbors? I guess in that case, a HOA is a good thing if the rules are reasonable, and it sounds like some are and some aren't. Our municipality has a reasonable set of by-laws that keeps noise to reasonable hours and property's looking half decent.
Not everywhere is up to a HOA standard of property maintenance, but even the poorer areas are not bad, and if a property is collecting trash, its not bad for long.

We did have a startup company testing space capable, small payload rocket engines for a while! Which about twice a month, they would test for a minute or so, but you could hear it 5+ miles, away depending on the wind! They didn't do enough noise abatement at the beginning and were starting too, but they had made enemies of the the close neighbors by then, who complained enough to get it shut down... They had a couple open houses and it was fun to talk to some real rocket scientists, and it was neat to see some cutting edge tech in person.

 

[Brons2]

The people who claim to like HOAs because those preserve property values are the first to cry and complain when their precious property values increase and so do the taxes and HOA fees.

Saw this very thing in Virginia Beach even in neighborhoods without HOAs. People complained when their taxes shot through the roof to match their property values. But appreciation in value is what they wanted; they just didn't consider the flip side.

This whole thing is one reason housing has become unaffordable for many people, by the way.

Is it the property value, or the tax rate?

The property taxes in Texas are absolute extortion.

That, and the MUDs (Municipal Utility Districts) that the developers create in order to pass on the development costs of the neighborhood to the eventual buyers. Just make the houses more expensive up front, that can be paid off eventually by the buyer. You can never get away from the MUD taxes unless you are annexed by a city. The MUD taxes are much higher than city taxes, so it's desirable to get annexed, IMO. The MUD's literally have a sign at the edge of the neighborhood that state "A political subdivision of the State of Texas". In other words a taxing authortity created to shift the cost of development to the buyers.

Between these two things I pay more than $10K/yr in property taxes on a house that is worth maybe $450K. I still have sales tax and various state fees on top of that like vehicle registration, drivers license, toll roads, etc.

 

[PandaBear]

It does seem odd that some municipalities don't have some basic by-laws for living semi-respectively with your neighbors? I guess in that case, a HOA is a good thing if the rules are reasonable, and it sounds like some are and some aren't. Our municipality has a reasonable set of by-laws that keeps noise to reasonable hours and property's looking half decent.
Not everywhere is up to a HOA standard of property maintenance, but even the poorer areas are not bad, and if a property is collecting trash, its not bad for long.

We did have a startup company testing space capable, small payload rocket engines for a while! Which about twice a month, they would test for a minute or so, but you could hear it 5+ miles, away depending on the wind! They didn't do enough noise abatement at the beginning and were starting too, but they had made enemies of the the close neighbors by then, who complained enough to get it shut down... They had a couple open houses and it was fun to talk to some real rocket scientists, and it was neat to see some cutting edge tech in person.

I just call the police dept to shut down neighbors' party after 10pm if they are too loud. No need for HOA on that.

 

[Brons2]

I just call the police dept to shut down neighbors' party after 10pm if they are too loud. No need for HOA on that.

The person that posted the complaint noted that Florida has no noise laws for homeowners.

 

[MaximumMini]

The person that posted the complaint noted that Florida has no noise laws for homeowners.

Exactly. But in florida it is now a CRIME to have a license plate frame. More and more like NY every day.

 

[Dave Hess]

Many HOAs finances are in shambles with little cash reserves = Special Assessments

 

[edyvw]

I am currently in a fight with the HOA over the basketball hoop.
The neighborhood is advertised as family-friendly, but basketball hoops should not be visible unless they are being used.
I never believed that it is this hard to explain to people that 9-12-year-olds will not play basketball unless they can just take the ball and shoot. If I have to get out, push the hoop on a 15% grade that my house is built on with 280lbs of sand in the base, they are already 18 years old.
And I am entrenched in my position, as are other neighbors, and the HOA is entrenched in its position.
And we will fight this first-world problem to the death.

 

[edyvw]

Many HOAs finances are in shambles with little cash reserves = Special Assessments

That is genuinely a BIG problem. A really BIG problem.